Can women really be friends with a man and it mean nothing?

[ALovelyBunch0fCoconuts]

I'm not really a regular on the relationship board but I have posted a few times with the occasional problems dh and I have had.

Now we have an issue regarding a male friend I have. he is the dp of one of my very good female friends and our kids play together most weekends and go to school together. I have become good friends with her dp over the past few months and regard both her amd him as my friends.

dh isn't happy with it. he thinks he has ulterior motives. he says he trusts me but doesn't trust him (!) - I dont think he can say this. if he trusts me implicitly then it should make no odds imo.

me and the male friend occasionally sent each other the odd text but my dh made me stop texting him as he thought it was weird.

I think he is being totally unreasonable.

am I wrong? nothing remotely flirtatious with the friend no feelings whatsoever on either side but dh just won't hear me.

I have a close male friend I've known all my life. Never been any more than friends, ever. We meet up for drinks and/or dinner every couple of months. His wife does not approve (they've been married for over 20 years as have DH and I). It's got to the stage where he doesn't tell her he's meeting me, because it's too much hassle. She is perfectly pleasant, if a tad patronising, to my face, but always makes a point of clinging on to her DH as if he's about to run off if I'm around.

I have another male friend with whom there is a definite spark. But neither of us will ever act on it - I have DH and he is in a LTR as well.

John

If your friends husbands are unable to sustain close friendships with their wife''s female friends without 'succumbing' to your 'allure' then they are low quality people.

Lie down with dogs, no matter the distance between you and you'll catch fleas.

I agree. it is wrong to lie about it. makes it look dodgy as hell.

No, lying doesn't work. There should be nothing to lie about.

But isn't it being controlled if he were to cease contact/seeing his friend because of her insecurities? Why should he stop meeting up with his friend if it's completely innocent.
When I used to text my male friend after he first got together with his now wife, he used to reply saying you'd better text xxx and not me which I thought was ridiculous as she pointed out to me while drunk one night that I was her dhs friend and not hers. But I went along with it and did as he asked. He now does text me occasionally maybe every six months or so. I don't have a great many friends so am sad to not be able to keep in contact with someone I would consider a good friend but that's how it goes I guess.

I've had experiences of ALL of the things posters have mentioned, some good posts here.

conclusion:

-the hive mind is ace, a bit like a big goddess

• also i've got round a lot.

I think being very self-aware is the key? so honestly ask oneself "what are everyone's motivations here, is there anything instinctively off with this dynamic, is the other person assuming things and if so can they be diplomatically forestalled?"

When i've had issues with boundaries it because I haven't really, really thought about things - or haven't WANTED to - and have done the 'buried head in sand' thing emotionally?

It can be very lonely socially surviving as a woman (human) and I think sometimes "a guy friend who I know secretly has a crush on me" is an 'easy social option' for a woman.

so for example, I made friends with a single guy, a bit geeky, I sort of secretly 'knew' he had a crush on me, but didn't really confront the issue and made some shite excuse about "not wanting to date due to depression"? (which was a lie, as I was interested in other guys, just not him)

which I do think I could have done better, as I might have "owned" the situation socially earlier, by making it VERY clear that I wasn't interested in him regardless - then I might even have helped him with his dating efforts, rather than letting things get to the stage where he was a bit pissy and resentful.

OP I do think its a very reasonable approach, transforming your friend into a "couple to couple friendship".

I'm a bit puzzled by your partners response, can your partner not come up with an actual reason as to why he feels uncomfortable? I mean "texts too late at night" is a reason. "He said X" is a reason. But "I don't like him" doesn't seem that good enough? how is he with your female friends?

I do not understand. You cannot lie to your partner, but at the same time, you do not take his feelings into consideration above that of your friend, and then bad mouth your husband publically and say that he has the issue when the action is done by you ? How does that work ?

A gf recently asked me this question. She said that another male friend used to pop into their place quite often and said hello. Once that he has married, he is now being "barred" from going to her house. So I asked her whether she had ever invited both the wife and the husband, so that she can at least keep in touch with him too in a loser way. She said no. So as her friend, obviously I have to say the obvious, because she is trying to now compete with the wife for the guy's attention. How can that work ? Shouldn't she be happy for him that he is now married and has a wife ? She is judging her, and that is wrong. Because it is obvious now that his attention and priorities have changed a little bit.

As much as it hurts me too to let go of some of my older male friendships because they are married now or whatever, I would indeed be at arm's length too. One male friend saw me being down recently, and he invited some of our old mutual school friends out with the wife and all the children too. I was SO happy to see them. Plus they made an effort. It need not be said what was done. That is maturity.

Of course it hurts emotively if you have given your heart away a little bit, but obviously you also got to keep it in check too. Emotional connection is indeed hard to come by but at the same time, you do need to keep it in check as well too.

Some guys are quite blunt and direct. Even when I have given flowers to a close female friend before, the hubby said "you make me look bad in front of my wife". What ?? But obviously, I did more than he did, which in a way is quite true. Cos I did above and beyond what a friend should do. I never did it again because I do not wish to compete in that area.

Thanks again for answering, OP. I hope you don't mind but I just did a quick search for you on MN, and the top result was from last month, when you asked for advice about your very low sex drive, and mentioned you have a negative self-image which affects your sexual confidence. Again, sorry for being a bit stalkery.

I'm assuming from what you just said that your friend knows all about this problem, and quite possibly her DP does too. And your DH knows that they know. So here's the rub - your DH is watching you form a close relationship with a man who probably knows all about your dire sex life, someone who 'gets' you, makes you laugh and has excited your interest - something he probably feels he's not doing himself.

I can see why this upsets him. He sees you forming a strong emotional bond with another man at a time when the bond between the two of you is at its weakest. He sees the start of a potential emotional affair with someone who may well know all your (shameful, in his eyes) relationship secrets. He feels jealous about the quality time the three of you spend with all the DCs, which he is excluded from because of his work. It's up to you what to do about it, but please believe that this could poison your marriage, maybe even kill it.

dont apologise for searching me I did say in my opening post that there were other issues.

you make a lot of sense. thank you

No, it's probably not appropriate for him to lie to his wife. However, he sees no other way round it. She becomes a screaming banshee when my name is mentioned - her insecurities. Why should he sacrifice a friendship that has lasted twice as long as his marriage? She has no issues with his male friends from years back, only me. Their problem, not mine. If he chose not to contact me because of the way she is, that would be entirely up to him, and I would respect that choice.

Interestingly, she looks very like me, but a slimmer, richer version.

SheherazadeSchadenFreude For some reason, I really want to hug you right now. I am also this "left out choice". That is why sometimes I think that some guys are gitty. (I know, I am petty. But I will get over it.) I also had this good male friend too who was there for me when I was down, but then I discovered that I became the 3rd person in this triangle with his gf. Which I did not know he had at the time til I bumped into this crying woman at the pub where we all met up for a social group. Then the penny dropped from high heaven. Obviously I ran a mile and did not want to get involved in any dramas. If he is to break up, it cannot be me as a reason. It was their first relationship. They did marry in the end.

I also regret telling him some of my dreams too. Obviously he is now a photographer, and obviously he went to the beloved cities in my remembrance too. The ones that we talked of. Obviously he stole those ideas. Oh I hate him so. I was so naive and we shared a lot of emotional intimacies. (This was way back in my 20s.) I am now the least of his problem as he chose to do fashion photography to peeve off his now wife. So he is now exposed to more women.

Sometimes doing the right thing is right. To protect yourself as well as the other person too.

I have another male friend with whom there is a definite spark. But neither of us will ever act on it - I have DH and he is in a LTR as well.

Like I'd be happy if DW was saying that about another man.

It's funny how most men don't have text conversations with their friends, but somehow find time to have text conv with their female friends.

Arsenal
How want to see all men like yourself? Most men don't have text conversations does not mean that no men have text conversations. All men are incapable of being friends with women, rather said, you are incapable of being friends with women or trusting your wife.

I am so glad I am not married to you. My idea of a husband would be a friend first and foremost, that would automatically disqualify you. As for your suspicions about any friendship between men and women, that would be a total no no. But to each their own.

Ive never become close friends with friends dps, however i do have 4 close male friends that ive been friends with for years and its never been an issue tbh. 1 of the guys i did have a bit of a fling with as a teen which was common knowledge and i had an ex that felt really threatened by him and like your dp put pressure on me to stop replying to his messages etc, silly really especially as he as the 1 playing away

I would just try your best to get it through to him nothing is happening i know its easier said than done. Hop does your friend feel about you been mates?

When I was dating I ended up Big Red Flagging men who Othered women too much?

Its creepy to assume that if a man in touch with a woman, its a given they're going to be obsessed with them after a while, and can't just have a neutral interaction without turning it sleazy.

One of the WORST sexists I dated (ended up rude and unpleasant to me, would have been controlling if we'd dated any further, horrid and needy) kept on about how he didn't approve of this pretty colleague or that good-looking young waitress.

As if that's actually what he thought a girlfriend 'needed' , someone who makes a big play of how much they avoid other women and put them down Yuck, yuck, yuck.

Its Othering women to have such a strong, dramatic, response mode to them: sexualising is the flip side of hating.

Someone who can go and have a regular coffee, play a game of chess with, or text about the latest film with a woman (just as much as a man) was much more of a better prospect for me.

Similarly with guy friends who developed passive-aggressive, resentful crushes: looking back, the signs were there they had ishoos with women/rejection complexes, so made any interaction really 'loaded'? (either a female is their fantasy/Dream woman or a bitch who leads them on). I'd even get the sense they selected their female friends for 'looks'.

One doesn't get this issue with fairly personable quality guys who've maybe interacted with women at uni or work, can get dates whenever they like.

PS To add a bit, I'd say that if a guy has a female friend but all the interactions with her, and the friendship itself, seems a bit odd or unbalanced or drama laden, then I think that's also a red flag?

Some guys can't have a friendship with a female 'peer' who is at the same level as them (and just do low key activities together) but will have lots of female 'friends' with nothing intellectually or socially in common.

They enjoy playing 'rescuer' and actually seem to feed off her emotionally, which I'd say is also Othering: they'll actually shrink away from interactions with women which are calm and rational and low drama. Because women, are, y'know not like them, and they don't want this prejudice to be challenged.

Opohdear has summed this up I think.

Can't believe the sexism on this thread. A friend is a friend, whatever gender. OK, some people go through a phase where they see any member of the opposite sex as a potential partner, but even as teenagers most of my friends were beyond that, let alone as adults.

If my partner's "feelings" were such that he couldn't cope with me being friends with anyone in half the population, he wouldn't be the lovely person he is, and I can't imagine he'd be a person I wanted to be married to.

If a friend had the sort of marriage where they were "banned" from being friends with people of the opposite gender I'd feel very sorry for them having such a weak relationship. I don't think I could maintain a friendship with a couple who were like that. One of them would have insulted me by suggesting I have an ulterior motive in my friendship (or worse that they don't trust their spouse, my friend), the other I would not be able to be alone with for fear of harming his marriage!

When friends have a partner or spouse I would normally try to include partner in social events, but sometimes that doesn't work, like one friend I see at work in lunch breaks, another I play scrabble with for company while minding children, another I meet at a hobby we share and go to the pub afterwards. Two of those friends are male, one female, I'm also friends with all the partners when we meet but more often we don't. There really is no difference in the relationships m or f.

To be honest this is very similar to the line of men can't help raping women when they dress/ do certain things.

The friend I mentioned before lies about seeing me, I enjoy some of the stories he comes up with. We're good friends, can tell each other anything and still he's in no rush to leave his wife for me (which I wouldn't allow anyway if I felt like that about him) but she's convinced I'm chasing him. I lost my job and my friend (her) over my friendship with him. She doesn't even know we're in contact beyond basic Facebook but still hates me. If she doesn't trust her husband that's her business as far as I'm concerned.

Confuddled
I don't see the difference between making a friendship with a man to making a friendship with a woman
You think that man would lie to his wife if you were a man and she wasn't happy about the friendship.
No, he would tell her you are his friend and nothing is changing.
Then why is he being so secretive about you?
Because he wants to shag you..

Mexican
You think your dh would be happy you have a friend 'where there is a definite spark.'

The example of text messaging was to highlight how men act different with their male and female friends.

I went to a wedding a few weeks ago and bumped into an old male friend of mine, we spent most of the night talking and buying each other drinks. That would look odd if he was a woman and we spent the night going back and forth to each other.

On the other another I was glad to meet an old female friend who was also on the same table, but we didnt go back and forth to one another, and certainly didnt spend the night buying each other drinks.

My point is I'm not in the business of making my wife insecure. I travel a lot with work, it would look odd if I met up with a female friend whilst away. It's the unnecessary drama not good for marriage.

I know men who do lie about seeing male friends that their OHs don't like.

My ex-boss doesn't like me because I am chasing her husband. I'm not. She's not worried about him. She knows about my family and relationship, she still thinks I'm chasing him. We have been friends for over 11 years, we have a lot in common, he's supported me through stuff that he knew the last thing I needed was a man paying me attention, we've been friends to each other through each other's mental health problems. He's like a brother to me I have never thought about chasing him.

I am currently single but I once had an issue where an ex girlfriend (we weren't living together) had real issues over the fact that I had female friends and that my best friend was female. The first people I introduced my girlfriend to were these female friends. And their boyfriends! We would often socialise together as a group but I would also socialise with them separately because of hobbies that my girlfriend did not share and had no interest in (despite our trying to involve her). They were around long before she was. She particularly took against my female best friend. Suffice it to say the constant sniping got to the point where she said that if I wanted to continue being her boyfriend I was not to spend any time with said best friend.

I called time on our relationship and not my best friend. Sorry, but my friends are my friends, have been there for me through a lot of shit. Anyone who expects me to give them up or only see them as a couple is out of order. We always hear on MN that we want our partners to complement our lives and not change ourselves to suit them. There can be compromise, but it comes down to trust. You either trust your partner or you don't around members of the opposite sex. If you don't that is YOUR problem.

Confuddled , the male female friend issue is nothing at all like the men can't help raping women line. At all.

Your exactly the sort of female friend I wouldn't like my Dh to have. You seem to pride yourself on the fact that your friends wives feel uncomfortable about the friendships and that one of them lies to his wife in order to see you. You say you flirt a fair bit , and have now twice alluded to the brother , sister thing I mentioned earlier. Do you flirt with your brother ?