Can a marriage be saved if he's having a passionate affair?

[Truly40]

First time on Mumsnet Talk - but completely shocked by my husband's revelation yesterday evening that he has been having a 6 month affair with his assistant. He is MD of a company, and has plenty of valid opportunity to travel away (and play away obviously!)
We have been together 4 yrs, and have a 2 yr old together and another 3 children (8, 14, 20) between us. He is 50, I am 40 and other woman - early thirties.
We have always been adoring and affectionate with each other, even during the last 6 months - and the only reasons he can give is that he's frustrated at my disorganisation, and finds 'family life' i.e. children - difficult and tiring. the children all get along well, and we're a close family - no step-family difficulties at all. I suspected all was not well, only as he seemed distracted and very protective of his phone recently.
He says he still loves me, but that he loves the other woman (who I know!) and is pretty sure he wants to be with her and the "idea" of a carefree life. he says he hasn't made a decision yet, and that if it had been the other way around he would fight to the ends of the earth for me...
However I've just been reading his texts to her full of "adore and love you hugely" messages, and which seemed to suggest he was going to leave me last night, and asked her to be ready to collect him - however we drank wine as all this was revealed and whilst he told her he was in the spare room, he came to bed with me and snuggled up and said we would discuss further tomorrow.
I have also just texted her asking her to please give us space to work things out, and begging her not to let him leave his family, and to think of the children. All very civil and polite.
Please don't say not worth saving - he's my soulmate, my world and we have a good life together. Yes, I'm devastated at his betrayal, but he's deceiving her also.
What do I do next, I don't know how to fight for someone who is on the verge of leaving for someone younger, prettier, in front of him at work every day, and carefree??

Mik - so asking a cheat to leave is a knee-jerk reaction?
To my mind it would be a very logical and balanced decision made under these extreme circumstances, but knee-jerk, no.

To me, "knee jerk" in this context is clinging onto the dead wood of a relationship because you fear change.

Knee jerk in this situation is the opposite of asking him to leave, it's deciding in a panic that you are going to forgive this kind of horrible betrayal and taking no decisive action.

Yup, that's another way to put it that I agree with.

The fact that there's no 'right' answer to the kneejerk thing suggests to me that there's no 'right' answer to Truly's predicament either. I think she just has to do what her own gut instinct tells her to do, quite regardless of whatever the overwhelming opinion on an online forum may be.

Merry: I'm not going to answer the 'who are you with now?' question - but I am not with the partner I cheated on. And although I was an out-and-out cheat then (and part of me enjoyed it), I have not cheated on anyone in the 20 years since.

So Anna do you suggest she stays with her unfaithful husband, keeping quiet and being nice and not rocking the boat, in the hope he may dump his OW, having got her out of his system, and stay married. (until the next time he is unfaithful of course). Or should she just be glad he is with her, even though he has someone else too?

How interesting that one of the few people advocating that truly continue to put this man before her own self respect admits to having enjoyed cheating in the past.

No, I don't suggest that at all. I said that I was hoping that my ex-P would leave me when I was unfaithful, and I was relieved when he did.

I'm saying that everyone's relationship and everyone's situation is different, and that what works for some posters here might not work for Truly. Only she can know that. It may be that she is happy to wait for him to come back to her (or not). It may be that she gets fed up with him faffing around and gives him the boot. Either way, it's up to her.

I do stand by my comment that self-respect isn't necessarily synonymous with leaving an unfaithful partner, though. If you love someone that much, it isn't so easy.

Self respect is synonymous with leaving a currently unfaithful partner.

No-one said it was easy.

I said it before and I'll say it again:

NEWSFLASH! You can ask someone to leave without it meaning they are leaving forever.

I also wonder what Truly would want, if she could call all the shots from now on. I highly doubt she would want her H still texting the OW. What she doesn't seem to realise is that she should be calling the shots since she's the one who was betrayed, but she's too afraid of rocking the boat and losing him completely. And if that's the case and he's not willing to do whatever it takes to make her forgive him, it means she's lost him already. It's only a matter of time before he leaves her or cheats on her again.

Well, he's happy isn't he? His wife doing the pick me dance and family all lovely at the weekend. His ow content with a text .. I thought she was his assistant? Doesn't he see her at work? Or is he making sure she's alone? If she doesn't text back, what does he do? I notice she could be texting all day for all you know.

Truly, I hope you see a very good divorce lawyer. Even if you plan to wait it out, it always pays to know where the money's going and keep track of it. He's defrauding his expenses at the very least of it. Have you access to his bank account?

I see the delicate flower isn't going to sleep with you either. I doubt very much if he is going without. That's enforced celibacy! Though at least he has spared you the sex and him shagging you then nipping off to text the ow. Will he count a blow job under the desk as sex?

Its like a relationship in which the man says " ooh, don't let's get too serious" and really he means he's going to shag about. only, you're married. It is serious. Frankly, if you put up with this shit, it can only be for the lifestyle, because no one is worth being treated like that. He's not your dh anymore, he's someone else's lover as well.

I do feel for you as clearly he is the best thing in your life and you will do anything to keep him. Its so sad that all this love and loyalty is wasted on him.

The Op said in her first post that this is the third time she has dealt with infidelity in relationships. Maybe she is trying to avoid reacting in ways that haven't worked previously. It's likely brought back horrible feelings for her.

Infidelity is abuse in my opinion , and should be considered as such. As with any abuse , you can stop it at any time by saying no and meaning no. You just don't realise you can.

I think this is less about the ow and more about him wielding power over her , presumably he knows about previous partners being unfaithful and yet has chosen to do the very thing that has hurt her so much previously. His pondering whether he should be with ow , telling her about messages , I think it's a power play and unforgivable. Those who engage in abusive power games like this are cowardly and weak. The only power they have is what you give them.

This will end the minuite the Op says no and really means it. I hope that's soon.

Lavenderhoney's post is super.
He is a selfish, self centred man.
You gave a 2 year old together, not to mention your own two and his 20 year old.
And he is willing to give up all that - a lovely family- beautiful children for a shag (shags)with a 30 something ow.
To break apart the family, to cause hurt and distress.
And you are not all that long together.
He is doing it. Not you.
Your saintliness in putting up with him won't make him love you.
She can have him would be my opinion.

Bad balding, it could also end when the ow says no. And he slithers back into bed saying he choose his wife, but things have to change and he has to have time to get over his lost love.

The ow will also be playing a " game". From her pov she's winning. Text morning and night, encroaching on family time, seeing him at work. And more power in a way, as she doesn't rely on him financially, he thinks more of hurting her feelings than his wife, and he has told his dw. The fact he is still there means nothing. He was when he was secretly shagging her. She will tire faster, perhaps, of it all.

I afraid no one will win this one. Its who survives and has the happiest future in the end. And of course, the best divorce lawyer.

Truly, who is supporting you in rl? Who knows you and knows what is going on? You support your dh, he certainly isn't supporting you, and you really should close down emotionally to him. He has no right to know how you think and feel. But he was your bf, your dh, so of course you do:(

And thanks, holly:)

Truly is desperate to hang onto her deadbeat husband, and nothing anyone can say here will have an impact. Her initial question was specifically if a marriage could be saved....if anyone answered nay, then she simply ignored. She is utterly DESPERATE to preserve her marriage...even when her husband is rotten and cruel.

She will do what she feels the need to do (be a doormat to her philandering husband) and people just have to let her get on with it. Very sad to see a fellow woman let herself be treated this way, But her choice also.

It is as you say just very sad.

I was once in a relationship with someone very much like Truly's husband. It was hell. The gut churning fear and anxiety being with someone like that brings is clearly remembered. He too, could be loving, wonderful, could make me feel like a million dollars, was great with the kids blah, blah etc. so I hung on grimly, because I 'loved' him. So desperately. He too wasn't sure what he wanted, needed time to think, was 'torn' blah blah. And me like a mug, and like Truly, would have done anything, anything, to save the relationship.

The weight fell off me, I was constantly on edge, if a door slammed, or a bell rang, I'd jump six feet off the ground my nerves were that shot.

We also had a business together which made it doubly difficult and at one point he even said 'if we do split up and I decide to go off with OW I still want us to work together. I still want you in the business'. WTF? Can you imagine the hell of working with him every day while he went off each evening to OW and I went home to the kids alone? Would she pop in to see him while we were at work? Would she phone him at work and vice versa? Would he tell me what they were doing that evening as workmates do? Would I hold the fort while they went off on holidays together? When I look back now I can hardly believe all this actually happened it is so outrageous and ridiculous, but at the time he was perfectly serious. I'm replacing you in my bed but I still want you in the business (because he knew it would bloody well fold without me).

I was so blinkered and blinded by what I thought was 'love' I was even prepared to go along with this .. until one day, a long standing business acquaintance of ours turned up at work when DP who I shall call 'Fred' for the purposes of this post, was out. By this time I'd lost shitloads of weight and I looked so drawn and ill, he gently asked if everything was ok?

I found myself breaking down and it all came tumbling out - the whole story, everything Fred had said and done (a lot of it very similar to the shite spouted by Truly's H), the whole saga ... and he just stood there open mouthed. At the end he looked me straight in the eyes, and I'll never forget what he said as long as I live:

"Fontella, why don't you just go and lie down over there by the door so that when Fred comes in he can wipe his feet on you?"

It took a few moments for what he said to sink in ... for the stark reality of what I had allowed myself to become, what this arsehole partner of mine had made me into - his fucking doormat.

Something clicked. After he left, I shut up the office, went home and in the course of a morning, I packed up his stuff, took it round to his mothers and told her to tell him the only way he could communicate with me was via letter or email. I got the locks changed, rang BT and got the house phone number changed, got my mobile number changed, told the childminder, neighbours, mutual business acquaintances, friends, everyone we knew as a couple, that if he tried to contact me via any of them, then if they valued my friendship etc. they were to politely decline to get involved. If anyone tried to pass on messages or discuss the matter with me, then I'm afraid it would mean the end of my relationship with that person. I put a wall up all around me to stop him getting through (because I knew if he did, he'd have me back in doormat mode in no time) .. and from that day on I started to heal, my life started to get better.

He tried of course. He did manage to find out my new phone number (craftily got me to disclose it online by pretending to be a customer, but I twigged it was him, and simply changed it for a second time).

It was financial hell for a while because overnight I lost my income at the same time as my relationship and the financial side of things wasn't clear cut as we weren't married. I ended up walking away with nothing, sweet FA, nada, zilch .. but although it was bloody hard for a while (and I even cleaned toilets at one point) it was still worth it, to gain my self respect and self esteem.

That was 10 years ago and I haven't clapped eyes on him or spoken to him (verbally) since. I don't know where he is and what he's doing and I don't give a monkey's anyway (although I did hear on the grapevine that the business went tits up and he got himself into a bit of bother with trading standards, got taken to court and given a suspended prison sentence and a curfew hahaha!) - and that was just the most loveliest bit of sweet, sweet karma. The day I found out I went out and danced in the garden lol! But I digress!

I look back now and I shake my head in wonderment, simply unable to believe how low I allowed myself to sink, how low that bastard brought me ... all because I thought I 'loved' him.

Sadly that's how I feel when I read Truly's thread. The night he announces to her he has been shagging someone else for six months, and that although he still 'loves' Truly, he also 'adores' the other woman and is 'pretty sure' that he wants to be with her. After being told this .. Truly not only sits and drinks wine with him she allows him to get into bed with her and 'snuggle' all night, while admitting he had told OW that he was in the spare room.

If that was me ... I'd have had his cheating arse out of the door so fucking fast he would have thought it was on fire - the second he told me he'd been shagging someone else for six months, let alone the rest of it. As for the 'pick me' dance that Truly has been participating in ever since, while this poor tortured darling of a man 'decides' whether he's going to stay with her or not ... it makes me both sad for her and angry at her in equal measure.

But as many have already pointed out - it doesn't matter what any of us write, how much we share our own experiences, no matter what we tell her .. Truly is never going to see it, until she's ready to because she too is blinded and blinkered by 'love'.

So all I can say to her is this ...

Truly, why don't you just go and lie down over there by the door so that when you H comes in he can wipe his feet on you?"

Fontella, I guess it goes to show that it will take the right timing, and someone with right combination of compassion and honesty to really help Truly see where she is. And what she needs to do will come from somewhere inside her. I hope it's sooner rather than later...but whenever it comes, Truly, you will find the support you need, I know.

How can anyone regard a kind, decent, generous person who's trying to find a way through a horrendous situation that has the potential to devastate her entire family as merely a doormat?

It seems to me that compassion and understanding are sadly lacking in some of these posts.

Because that's what she is Anna - even if you and she refuse to see it.

I was also a kind, decent, generous person, trying to find a way through a horrendous situation that had the potential to devastate my entire family - but I was still a fucking doormat!

In your compassionate and understanding defence of Truly, you are completely missing the point and that is that while she is so bravely trying to 'find her way' she is allowing her cheating, lying husband who married her and had a child with her to walk all over her over her while he prevaricates back and forth 'deciding whether he's going to stay with her, or go off into the sunset with the woman he's been having extra-marital sex with for six months.

This 'horrendous situation' she finds herself in didn't fall out of the sky you know. It didn't just appear out of nowhere. It was created entirely by the despicable behaviour of her unfaithful husband. And on finding out what he's been doing behind her back for six months ....what does Truly do? She drinks wine with him, she snuggles up in bed with him and continues to play happy families with him, while he makes up his mind what he wants to do.

If that's not being a doormat I don't know what is!

You've expressed it very well, Fontella.

Fontella, that is a powerful post. I hope truly is still reading and absorbs your message, even if she isn't ready to act on it yet.

I think "a kind, decent, generous person who's trying to find a way through a horrendous situation that has the potential to devastate her entire family" can easily be described "as merely a doormat" when she is facilitating the behaviour of a husband who is in fact devastating the family through his actions.

There might have been a way back for Truly, and her marriage, had she grown a back bone, and kicked him out, ie, forcing HIM to fight for her and their kids. She has chosen to lie down by the door instead.

If I were in this situation, I would want truth and honesty like fontella has been kind enough to give via her own story. No "there there's" for me thanks.

Our self respect and pride is really all we have left when everything else is stripped away. If I couldn't see it for myself, I would want it pointed out to me how it looks but mostly how it IS when you allow yourself to be disrespected quite so blatantly and comprehensively.