Can a marriage be saved if he's having a passionate affair?

[Truly40]

First time on Mumsnet Talk - but completely shocked by my husband's revelation yesterday evening that he has been having a 6 month affair with his assistant. He is MD of a company, and has plenty of valid opportunity to travel away (and play away obviously!)
We have been together 4 yrs, and have a 2 yr old together and another 3 children (8, 14, 20) between us. He is 50, I am 40 and other woman - early thirties.
We have always been adoring and affectionate with each other, even during the last 6 months - and the only reasons he can give is that he's frustrated at my disorganisation, and finds 'family life' i.e. children - difficult and tiring. the children all get along well, and we're a close family - no step-family difficulties at all. I suspected all was not well, only as he seemed distracted and very protective of his phone recently.
He says he still loves me, but that he loves the other woman (who I know!) and is pretty sure he wants to be with her and the "idea" of a carefree life. he says he hasn't made a decision yet, and that if it had been the other way around he would fight to the ends of the earth for me...
However I've just been reading his texts to her full of "adore and love you hugely" messages, and which seemed to suggest he was going to leave me last night, and asked her to be ready to collect him - however we drank wine as all this was revealed and whilst he told her he was in the spare room, he came to bed with me and snuggled up and said we would discuss further tomorrow.
I have also just texted her asking her to please give us space to work things out, and begging her not to let him leave his family, and to think of the children. All very civil and polite.
Please don't say not worth saving - he's my soulmate, my world and we have a good life together. Yes, I'm devastated at his betrayal, but he's deceiving her also.
What do I do next, I don't know how to fight for someone who is on the verge of leaving for someone younger, prettier, in front of him at work every day, and carefree??

I said that ages ago. Let him think you want him back, make him give up the OW and delete all contact details. Then hit him with divorce papers.

Truly40 - I know it must be hard to read all the posts where people think you are doing the wrong thing, are lacking in self esteem, etc but it is all coming from people caring about you and not wanting you to be hurt anymore.

itsfab I had a similar plan for revenge.
Xh tried everything to get back with me but I didn't want to.
I thought for a while I might wait until they had children together and a life (like I thought I'd had) and then entice him back to hurt her like they'd hurt me.
The reality was that by then I couldn't care less about them shows how you move on doesn't it?

Fwiw, I think most of us understand your position and how hard it is.
But we are on the outside and are not emotionally invested, and I dare say, can actually see him more clearly for what he is than you can while you are still with him around.

I suspect that if he goes, and stays away, even for a few weeks, you'll start seeing what we are too.

Dear Truly, I think it is absolutely right for you to fight to save your marriage; at least in the future you won't reproach yourself with regrets for over reacting or not trying harder. But please, please, please see a solicitor ASAP and establish exactly where you stand financially and legally; your husband presumably would only be responsible for your 2 year old; what about the house, and how would you support yourself if he left? You don't have to act, but you will be prepared. I think you should focus on resurrecting your previous (well-paid?) career; this hopefully will occupy your mind and give you some respite from emotional problems; you re-trained as a fitness instructor while having a young child, and two others, so you obviously are competent, well-organised(!) and fit; having work you enjoy and are good at will help restore your self-esteem which has been badly damaged. Have your parents/in-laws said anything; they will surely be aware of your distress? Sometimes the contempt of an older man can jolt a philander out of his self-absorption. The very best of luck to you; the immediate future is going to be extremely hard but not fatal as you do have the ability to survive.

Truly ....I think whether you or he decides to go or stay in the long run.... Arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can regarding finances....legal stuff etc....

Hope the week now the guests have gone and the Easter break is over is going ok for you. Hope you are finding a little 'Me' time as well as your busy family life.

I'm feeling sorry for Truly here. Some posters are evidently the revenge-seeking, ass-kicking types; Truly doesn't seem to be made that way. Personally, I'd feel a bit overwhelmed by so many people telling me to ditch my DH (even if he had made as much of a hash of things as Truly's DH has).

I'm not sure that Truly's failure to kick him out means that she lacks self-esteem. If you love someone, it's not so easy just to tell them to go. Kneejerk reactions like that aren't necessarily synonymous with self-esteem.

I think this is a prime example of RL family and friends being more helpful than online advice from people who don't know you. Several posters have said that they care about Truly; in fact, most of them are peddling their own agendas and revisiting their own experiences. Suggestions of revenge seem completely out of place and unhelpful. Truly needs more than this, whatever decision she makes.

I'm just really really sorry for Truly -- I've not been plunged 100% into her situation, but I recognise bits of it. The texting the OW twice a day to say "Good morning" etc is foul. I think he's revelling in "mentionitis."

And as a daughter in a family where the parents' marriage was like Truly's -- this whole thread is bringing back stuff. It's painful, but also very interesting to read it as an adult.

But my main thing is that this is not helping the children, as much as Truly thinks it is. That makes me a tad angry with her, if I'm absolutely honest -- but having been my mother's confidante through one more affair of my father's (whatever you do, Truly do NOT do that!) I have a lot of compassion for her. I remember the quivering wreck my mother was. But I also know the bitter martyred look she took on. Living with the effects of that resentment is not good for your children. Nor is a father who really really doesn't want you, by the evidence of his behaviour.

Anna, I think a very few posters have been the vengeful types. In fact, I think people have been saying he needs to leave so that there can be greater clarity to the situation, and the OP can get her head around what to do. Not to LTB for good. But to give them space to figure out what they want and to give him some boundaries to show she won't accept this situation on an ongoing basis. Just that she shouldn't 'fight for him'. Fighting for the marriage is one thing, fighting over him with another woman is another.

There's also quite a few people (myself included) who have said they aren't usually the people who say KTBO, but we are truly shocked at this particular dh's behaviour.

Anna, exactly who has urged Truly to seek revenge?

People are mostly concerned that she will be left with nothing.
The long term play is to ensure she doesn't end up in poverty, having left her job because her "D"H encouraged her while fucking up the marriage when she became financially dependent on him, and now dropping this bombshell that means she's likely to drop her any PT job she has or would have to make sure she gives him couple time.

I am most seriously concerned that he is being financially abusive and that this whole affair and the way he has behaved is also part of emotional abuse.

As Truly didn't immediately "fight" for him, he is now manipulating her to do just that and stay the dutiful wife at home, while he shags his PA with impunity.

"Revenge seeking ass-kicking types"

Revenge seeking where....have I missed something?

Ass-kicking if that equates to kicking his ass out to gain some breathing space would you not think that could be positive?

I see no revenge - I just see folk urging the OP to protect herself and to find clarity and self respect. He has treated her appallingly - sadly as an outsider looking in it is very clear what his motives are and how he is a total liar. I hope OP can see this and won't tolerate his behaviour any further. That isn't revenge in any way.

One example (from Itsfab): "I said that ages ago. Let him think you want him back, make him give up the OW and delete all contact details. Then hit him with divorce papers."

This sounds like game-playing, and while it might work form some people, it wouldn't work for others.

FWIW, as a former adulterer, I'm also not convinced that her H's behaviour constitues 'abuse' of any sort. It sounds more like 'very shitty and cowardly behaviour' to me. Or maybe I see it that way only because that was how I'd describe my own behaviour.

I still think Truly would be better off seeking RL advice (which is possibly what she's doing now!)

Anna, I am not an expert in abuse, as I haven't personally been abused. However, things stick out to me like:

• telling her he would fight for her if it was the other way around
• snuggling up in bed with her, the same night after telling her he is having an affair
• not making a decision when she kindly gave him 3 days to do so and staying on in the house despite the indecision (a cowardly thing would be to say: I can't decide so I will go to a hotel for a bit).
• telling her consistently how much he adores the OW
• blaming the OP for his affair by saying she is disorganised and not so interesting now she is a SAHM
• texting the OW in front of his wife, and showing her texts he has received, in the name of 'transparency'

I think this sounds as far from the OP playing a clever 'game' as you can get. He is calling all the shots and she is waiting to see who is chosen Very bad for the self esteem to be second fiddle

Merry, I did all of the above. I did them because I was torn between my then partner and the OM. In my particular case, I think I essentially wanted my then partner to make the decision to leave me, as I was too cowardly to leave him (in a rather twisted way, I thought that I'd feel like a crap person if I left him, but less so if I just, um, shagged someone else ).

Not that Truly's husband is doing this (who knows what he's doing? He probably doesn't even know for sure himself), but it's just another perspective.

Ledkr - good for you! . I hope you are happy now?

My comment certainly wasn't about revenge . It was about getting some control and self respect back

Anna, who are you with now?

My impression from the whole story is that there is more than him being torn between the two.
That's why I said it sounds abusive. Because he looks like he is still trying to keep her, but on his terms.

And yes, it is a very shitty thing to do to a partner.

No absolutely not a case of revenge.
Truly needs to dig up some strength and show him that his behaviour is completely unacceptable.

As understandable as it is in her awful situation, being a needy doormat (so sorry Truly) is a complete turn-off for men and indeed women.

Now whether that works or not is another thing entirely, but in my opinion it's the only way this man is going to sit up listen and start to respect Truly again, and see what HE stands to lose.
The world does not revolve around this self-centred bastard, he needs to know what she's made of and get some self-respect back.

Men like strong women.
Very easy to do in theory but extremely difficult to do in practice when you adore someone.

I think that for people who have experienced infidelity there are two major issues. One is intense anger at your spouse for the pain they have inflicted . It fades eventually and you can learn towards forgiveness if that's what you want.

The other issue is intense anger at yourself for putting up with it . This anger can go on for a lot longer than the anger at the spouse. I think the more you put up with the worse the anger is in the long term. I think it's this that's so very damaging further down the road.

truly ~
I really feel for your situation. I have been in the same position - but, at the risk of being flamed - I was the OW, but I didn't know it for quite a while. (I'd met him in a dating site, he lived away from his wife down here during the week for work so I'd stayed with him etc). I ended it, pretty disgusted but he kept coming back, contacting me etc. Forbidden fruit syndrome, grass is always greener, call it what you will; it was very difficult for me as I had adored him and I was very distressed by the whole situation, for a while I kept being sucked back in, but then he went back 'for the children'.

Even when attempting a reconciliation with her, he continuing texting me his love. How devastated he was. Asking me to see him. Then he became threatening, because his wife found my number and contacted me and I had told his wife honest answers to questions, and we both found out the extent of his lying.I actually had to go to the police to get him to back off.

anyway, my point is ... be very wary of having a lovely weekend with him. He may still be planning to leave but paying lip service to you, or he may be thinking he can have his cake and eat it. She has the unrealistic allure of forbidden fruit now; we all desire what we can't have, especially men, brought up to be competitive and results driven. And I think everyone can identify having a nice time for a day or two by ignoring their problems/debts/relationship issues. He should be breaking contact, even changing his personal mobile number, not still contacting her via it even if it's less.

He needs to feel that he will lose something by losing you; by being too understanding you set a dangerous precedent, that his needs/feelings are most important. and also by making this affair open to you it makes you implicitly condone it. Don't allow him feel that he was in any way entitled to do it. (I know my ex frequently blamed his wife for his actions; but many men who are unhappy like to keep the peace and maintain the status quo until another option comes along; they fear in a divorce they will lose much material wealth and their comfortable home & housekeeper)

I think for me I had been a single parent for a while before I met this guy, and he had felt like 'my happy ending', which was why I was unable to extricate myself from the whole sorry mess quickly enough when I found out his lies, and blinkered me to what a shit he had been/was still being. I hope this isn't the case with you.

I wish you love and happiness whatever you decide to do. Please look after yourself, and your children.

badbalding

Yes, I think you are very right there; self anger is very debilitating and damaging.

I think his whole attitude is revolting. The sooner the OP sees through his game, the sooner she will know what to do. He might have been a charming, wonderful husband but now all he is is a deceitful cheat who is having sex with another woman. Until the OP digests this, she will not be able to deal with him effectively. And I say this with the greatest compassion for her.

"I'm not sure that Truly's failure to kick him out means that she lacks self-esteem. If you love someone, it's not so easy just to tell them to go. Kneejerk reactions like that aren't necessarily synonymous with self-esteem"

AnnaMagdalena, well said!

By the way, has anyone noticed that OP hasn't come back since you all started hammering her???????????
well done for helping...

Of course as one poster opined you still 'see the good in him'. If he was openly a monster of selfishness and deceit you'd have tumbled to this betrayal months' ago.

Now he's being gentle, attentive, genuine well forgive me but with respect, two out of three, possibly.

You've been together just four years of which six months were a sham. He liked courting you, he relished the buzz of a new partner and just over three years into his second marriage he went back to the thrill of the chase.

He only recently became distracted and possessive of his phone, perhaps OW had given him an ultimatum. Brainwave: tell Truly + let her fix this.

Bringing the liaison into the open gave him free rein for mentionitis. He's utterly confident in six weeks he will either be back sleeping with you both, still married or free to get with OW, win win. Truly I'd love you to wipe that smug grin off his face. He used your adoration against you and still does.