Can a marriage be saved if he's having a passionate affair?

[Truly40]

First time on Mumsnet Talk - but completely shocked by my husband's revelation yesterday evening that he has been having a 6 month affair with his assistant. He is MD of a company, and has plenty of valid opportunity to travel away (and play away obviously!)
We have been together 4 yrs, and have a 2 yr old together and another 3 children (8, 14, 20) between us. He is 50, I am 40 and other woman - early thirties.
We have always been adoring and affectionate with each other, even during the last 6 months - and the only reasons he can give is that he's frustrated at my disorganisation, and finds 'family life' i.e. children - difficult and tiring. the children all get along well, and we're a close family - no step-family difficulties at all. I suspected all was not well, only as he seemed distracted and very protective of his phone recently.
He says he still loves me, but that he loves the other woman (who I know!) and is pretty sure he wants to be with her and the "idea" of a carefree life. he says he hasn't made a decision yet, and that if it had been the other way around he would fight to the ends of the earth for me...
However I've just been reading his texts to her full of "adore and love you hugely" messages, and which seemed to suggest he was going to leave me last night, and asked her to be ready to collect him - however we drank wine as all this was revealed and whilst he told her he was in the spare room, he came to bed with me and snuggled up and said we would discuss further tomorrow.
I have also just texted her asking her to please give us space to work things out, and begging her not to let him leave his family, and to think of the children. All very civil and polite.
Please don't say not worth saving - he's my soulmate, my world and we have a good life together. Yes, I'm devastated at his betrayal, but he's deceiving her also.
What do I do next, I don't know how to fight for someone who is on the verge of leaving for someone younger, prettier, in front of him at work every day, and carefree??

I think showing you her messages etc is not about him being really honest but he is sneakily trying to make it all 'out in the open' so he can carry on and feel less 'guilty'

Good point.

and don't underestimate the pleasure he no doubt gets from being able to talk openly about the OW - the woman he "adores" - its not about being open with you, its about being able to talk about his "beloved"

He thinks his a right king dick doesn't he! An 50 year old man with a woman ten years younger than himself, gets her pregnant then decides he wants the child free life back again and goes for an woman even younger!

This younger woman will properly want kids what then? will he find an even younger woman to create a new mistress spot?

I am sorry this man persuaded you to have an baby with you then just left you just two short years later. At least you will be sorted money wise, I would also go back to work and get your career back. You do not need him.

but I don't think he can face walking out on the kids

He's a grown up (supposedly). He should tell them.

Fucking hell, just read your updates. Who does he think he is?! He is being incredibly cruel - rubbing the affair, OW and his feelings for her in your face. He is fucking up your mind and sanity

Shame he didn't think of the kids the first time he shagged OW or the next time or the time after

Believe me the kids will know something is up, they can sense an atmosphere and will notice your unhappiness. Living in this situation is damaging for them. Also remember they will be modelling future relationships on your marriage.

"He...just said that he won't see her for the time being."
"He asked to spend a few more days together - to spend time with the kids and to relieve the pressure"

So, he's hedging his bets then? He won't tell her it's over yet, in case he still needs her down the line if you kick him out. Or rather, as I think it's unlikely you'll do that, if he decides you don't make him feel good enough about himself (what with all your annoying pain and hurt making him feel guilty).

And I wouldn't be standing for "owing it to her" to do it face-to-face, either. A text or phone call that you're witness to should do it. You don't want him indulging himself with a farewell shag scene worthy of 'Brief Encounter.' Either he's with you, where you and your feelings come first, or not. If he means business about finishing with her, he'll do it quickly and ruthlessly. After all, we know he has it in him to be cruel and selfish.

But what happens about them working together, I don't know. That has to change, but in this current climate, it's not that easy to switch jobs. Especially if the reasons for the change become known, namely, that he was unprofessional enough to start shagging his assistant.

He had a conversation with OW today which he said he needed to do - saying we didn't think he could leave his kids. But he's still in love with her and hasn't told her it's over

I am open-mouthed reading this. Who is we deciding that he couldn't leave his kids?? Who is we making decisions about his future relationship with the OW? That is him. He had the affair, and he HAS to decide to end it, or it's game over just as you told him. But when it came to delivering bad news to the OW it was 'we' who did so.

If he can't choose you fully and open-heartedly then he's not choosing you at all.

You gave him an ultimatum and now you're backtracking in your own mind, no doubt prompted by him, to see a separation as intolerable for your children (it isn't, they don't even need to know that's what it is) and an imposition on your parents (it isn't, he deserves no such courtesy).

He's not staying in the house out of a noble sense of 'what is best for the children', he's doing it for his own convenience and comfort, to maintain the status quo (in which he was happily fucking both of you) and to avoid his despicable actions becoming known to his family and friends. It also means he can continue to exert pressure on you whilst giving the appearance of 'openness and transparency'. You referred to him earlier as being 'painfully honest'. I think the pain was all on your side, wasn't it? The cause of his affair was the fact you became a SAHM - not the fact he is a faithless fucker who can't make an honest commitment to independent woman.

Your children will bounce back, they have you and the older two have their own dad. With the amount of time he was out of the house their day-to-day life would be very little different with him elsewhere.

Yes I don't think he's showing you her texts to be honest and open. That motive would suggest he cared about making it work with you, and if he cared about that he would be crawling, grovelling, leaving his job and whatever it took.

I think he's doing it to rub your face in it and (maybe subconsciously) try to SHOW you he is alpha male and can have all the women he likes. It's a challenge that you need to meet by putting your foot down and saying OUT. NOW.

OP I had one of these many moons ago and we were engaged. He had an affair with the girliest, flirtiest, man-pleasingest woman we knew (which = total opposite of me) and it went on for 3 months before he told me. He would say things like he wanted it to work with me, then tell me in detail about their sex life and how she was the best shag he'd ever had. It was designed to show me that whatever he pretended, he really wanted to assert his right to shag around. If I took him back, he would have carried on doing it forever because he's laid down the ground rules and I'd accepted them.

When he told me "I do want to come back to you, but can I just go on holiday with her first because I've already booked it" .... I said erm no, I think it's best if we break up now. Thank fuck I did.

It was much easier as there were no DC involved, but still, I was saving my future DC from that life.

I do think you have a similar case here.

OP I feel so sorry for you but please do not attempt to play happy families this weekend. I am really worried it will push you over the edge.

If you cannot face telling them the truth then claim D&V has taken you all and you cannot have any visitors at all. From what you have said, if PILS did rock up at the door with some soup, you would look as if you were really ill anyway

You do know that as soon as this weekend is over, he will be throwing his bags into the car and zooming off to OW don't you?

And please take some control back by seeing a solicitor. This man is an absolute dick. He is no prize to be squabbled over and fought for.

It will be the weekend from hell.

It would be unfair (and that is a gross understatement) on you, on the children, and on both sets of parents.

You will be washing dishes and making small talk and he will be texting the woman he is fucking on the side.

You cannot let this weekend happen.

If you truly cannot bear to tell the parents the truth yet, then invent measles or something. And kick the bastard out to go and play happy families with his next victim.

OP this is so sad, but you need to get angry. You need to shock him.

In his rewriting of this story, he is being noble and honourable knight in shining armour, giving up his one true love for the sake of his wife and family.

Oh, but, it won't stop him yearning for her, it would be unreasonable to stop the odd bit of contact when the poor fucking little flower is in sooo much angst. And of course they see each other every day, where they can look at each other, but never be together. And given the strength of their passion it's totally understandable that they have the odd illicit fuck.

Well I never, a 50 year old Romeo with his office Juliet.

If you tell him to go now, and cancel his parents coming, and tell them why, it will have maximum effect. You will not get this chance again.

Tell him to go, tell him you will make up a work excuse for the kids, and will tell them when you are ready. If he doesn't go tell him you will text the OW to say you have told him to go, that she can have him, but he won't go.

Hi truely

Some of Dr Phil's no nonsense advice here - bullet points that are short and to the point for you and him. Made my DH start to look at the "man in the mirror".

The only thing that really changed for my DH was when I got angry and started to take control, he did move in with his parents for about 4/5 months, all contact with ow ceased, Facebook a/c closed, secret email addresses revealed to me together with passwords, secret second phone destroyed etc.

This happened to me at this time of year, spent the Easter holidays on my own as DH had moved in with ow (told me he was staying with a mate as he needed "space" (yeah I know but I was, like you, desperate to keep my marriage and family together)). I would pack your H a bag and send him on his way for Easter, surround yourself with people who love you and care for you and wrap yourself up in your DCs love. There was a strange sort of peace that came over me at that time, I was incredibly anxious, couldn't eat etc, but just that peace without him being around was good. And what better time of year - Easter, a time of rebirth and new beginnings!

I sent my prayers to you for you to find all your inner strength to kick his smug arse out of the door (doesn't mean the end of the marriage just a line in the sand that he will not treat you like this).

Good luck

It must be so hideous for your right now OP, torn between your h's manipulations, MN's forthright advice and your own instincts/ emotions. All on top of little sleep or food and kids on holidays...I can't imagine.

All I would say is right now you don't need to see separation as the end. It is a step to give you both space to choose what you want. The more I hear of him, the more I think you need this space. You also need to stick to the boundaries. The kids don't need to know all the details yet or see it as something permanent. And I do think he needs to do the explaining - whilst you are there. I am another who thinks your 2 year old (who's the only one who has h as his 'real' dad) is the right age to get over this more quickly.

Please, while all the family is here, can you take your Mum off for a bit and tell her what is going on? You don't need to tell everyone, but you need some RL support, someone to give you a hug every so often, and to help you out with the practical stuff too. I am sure your parents will just worry when they see you...it would be easier for them to know why you are clearly not in a great place.

Big hug for you. You do sound very strong, and have faced up to all this very quickly. Credit to you. But you need some support.

Oh truly I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I feel so angry on your behalf!
I also come from a family where my dad was a serial cheat among other things. I remember incidences of other women from when I was 4 years old! Kids miss nothing. You would be doing them a service by throwing him out now, I wish my mother had, it might have saved us some of the pain all my siblings and I are dealing with every day.

Hugs to you xx

I don't just think he'll be texting her this weekend. I think he'll be using the excuse of a chaotic houseful to slip away and shag her. Because you don't need him hanging around when you've got the GPs to help with the kids, will you...? Is that what you want to be thinking of while you're running yourself ragged being hospitable to everyone?

At the very, very least OP, you should tell him today that you're cancelling both sets of parents and telling them why. That you're going to tell them that unfortunately, he has been having an affair and so you can't have guests while you work out what your - not his - next move is. And then follow through on that threat. I suspect his reaction will speak volumes as to what, or should I say who, his real concern is for. Himself, and no fucker else.

there are few husbands who I think are as cruel as yours

I think this is the result of the person he is - clever, charismatic, successful. He knows how to get what he wants - and it is not in a straightforwardly manipulative way. He's too clever for that, but it makes it a lot harder to see. I think tribpot's post has hit the nail on the head.

Tribpot....I thought that particular 'we' must surely have been a typo for he....

I hop

Should say ' I hope '

He says that he finds it difficult being around me as he feels so guilty all the time, and that any time with OW relaxes him. Well, Yeah - Duh!

Between you and OW you two handily provide him with all he could desire.

She must have had a glowing work appraisal. From her pov she could be assuming your part has been minimal, with the possible exception of providing another heir. He's probably told her he is keeping you sweet by spending the long Easter weekend at home with the children. Two 4 day weeks she can handle that.

Why doesn't he just go to her? Does he hope you might be desperate enough to agree to some sort of arrangement? Is he going to tease OW with a "Maybe I should go back to my DW" to keep her in line and not make demands? Or does he picture a cosy multi-generational Easter at home followed by either a hasty retreat to her (their?) place, or, a spell of exotic overseas 'business commitments' as a reward for his PA and a regretful gradual withdrawal from you and the DCs?

What if anything can he offer you now? And do you want it?

I'm sorry that you're going through this Truly and I know how difficult it must be to thinking about unpicking a blended family, but remember you don't owe him anything so if he goes his 20yo goes with him, not your responbility to house, feed and cloth his child.

I think that the sharing text messages with you is also a way of him saying to you "look she's going to fight for me/is happy with the situation, so why can't you?".

Also, I think he doesn't want to rock the GP visit weekend so wants to stay (or make you think he's going to stay longer term too) but once the GPs are waved off on Monday I suspect that his bags will be packed and he'll be off "relaxing" ....wanker

Truly there is absolutely nothing wrong with phoning your PIL (speak to whichever of them you find most sympathetic) and explaining it all. "I'm so sorry but we have a difficult situation here and I'm worried I can't cope with this weekend. H has revealed he's been having a 6-month affair and it's not even over. I'm struggling and can't put on a happy face and I don't know what to do."

Anyone with a heart would rather you told them than went through a horrendous weekend of hard work and trying to fake it. If they are nice PIL they will talk to him, get him to stay at theirs or offer you practical support with the DC.

He says that he finds it difficult being around me as he feels so guilty all the time, and that any time with OW relaxes him. Well, Yeah - Duh!

What really worries me about this man is that he can say that to you. Thinking it is one thing - doesn't put him in a good light AT ALL, but you can see why the cheating arse would see it that way.

Saying it is sadistic. "Oh poor me, it's so much nicer for me being with my shagpiece and here you are just making me feel bad. Poor me."

HOW DARE HE. A man that can say that to you does not care about you at all. He has no recognition whatsoever of your feelings, the fact that you exchanged vows with him and what that might mean to you (even if it means nothing to him), the fact that you are HURT and that that might matter more than his whimsical desires.

I do think you need to put a proper distance between the two of you by having him out of the house. If he goes to her - she's very welcome. Seriously.

You've had such good advice on here and many have shared their stories so I won't bang on but my situation was similar.
Let my tell you how much better I felt once id taken control of things and stopped trying to keep him at home when he clearly wanted to be with ow.
The dignity it gave me carried me through the whole break up.
Please find yours op. you are behaving in a desperate simpering way which is understandable but ultimately will make him have even less respect for you than he already has and give him something to tell the ow why he's not leaving just yet instead of the real reason which is that he's a spineless and predictable cunt!
You are ten years younger and a bloody fitness instructor, I'm pretty sure you can do better!

Truly there is absolutely nothing wrong with phoning your PIL (speak to whichever of them you find most sympathetic) and explaining it all.

I was thinking that and then I thought is H so lazy he is hoping that OP will break the news?

but I don't think he can face walking out on the kids

OK, look, who doesn't know that if you have an affair when you are married with kids, you are effectively ending your marriage, and that when a marriage ends someone loses a lot of time with their children? Is he seriously claiming that he didn't envisage that scenario? If so, that tells you a lot about what he thought he could get away with.

Right then:

He chose to have an affair, so he knew that at some point along the line, he would be a) contemplating leaving or b) being chucked out.

So, you need to look carefully at this "he can't face walking out on the kids" statement.

Why can't he face walking out on the kids? Because men who walk out on their kids are arseholes, and he is Man Of The Year (in his own mind). A Great Guy such as him does not do things like this - he thinks.

this brings me to:

So, why did he have an affair? Well this, isn't just an ordinary sleazy affair, like arsehole men [see above] have. This is a Luuuuuurve Affair that Men Of The Year have. This is why he expects you to understand. You are married to a great guy [he thinks]. You should understand that women all think he is fantastic and are always throwing their knickers at him. If he accidentally falls in love with one of them, and they with him, you should just understand that life is difficult for Great Guys like him, and try your best to help him to cope with all the problems this brings.

Thus:

What? You don't think it's OK that he has been shagging someone else? Well fine wife YOU turned out to be! What happened to "for better for worse?" Honestly! Well he has put his cards on the table - he's a better man than everyone else and HIS affair is Speshul. So if you don't like it, then you are going to have to tell him to leave and YOU will have taken his kids away from him. Yes YOU, you selfish harridan! He won't have walked out on his kids, it's all your fault because you made him leave. He is now Officially: Not An Arsehole. [in his head]

^ this is how he is thinking I reckon.