Can a marriage be saved if he's having a passionate affair?

[Truly40]

First time on Mumsnet Talk - but completely shocked by my husband's revelation yesterday evening that he has been having a 6 month affair with his assistant. He is MD of a company, and has plenty of valid opportunity to travel away (and play away obviously!)
We have been together 4 yrs, and have a 2 yr old together and another 3 children (8, 14, 20) between us. He is 50, I am 40 and other woman - early thirties.
We have always been adoring and affectionate with each other, even during the last 6 months - and the only reasons he can give is that he's frustrated at my disorganisation, and finds 'family life' i.e. children - difficult and tiring. the children all get along well, and we're a close family - no step-family difficulties at all. I suspected all was not well, only as he seemed distracted and very protective of his phone recently.
He says he still loves me, but that he loves the other woman (who I know!) and is pretty sure he wants to be with her and the "idea" of a carefree life. he says he hasn't made a decision yet, and that if it had been the other way around he would fight to the ends of the earth for me...
However I've just been reading his texts to her full of "adore and love you hugely" messages, and which seemed to suggest he was going to leave me last night, and asked her to be ready to collect him - however we drank wine as all this was revealed and whilst he told her he was in the spare room, he came to bed with me and snuggled up and said we would discuss further tomorrow.
I have also just texted her asking her to please give us space to work things out, and begging her not to let him leave his family, and to think of the children. All very civil and polite.
Please don't say not worth saving - he's my soulmate, my world and we have a good life together. Yes, I'm devastated at his betrayal, but he's deceiving her also.
What do I do next, I don't know how to fight for someone who is on the verge of leaving for someone younger, prettier, in front of him at work every day, and carefree??

I told my STBXH that he had to finish with the OW. He worked with her so was always going to be a difficult one. He told me he had. We plodded on for a week but I was not happy. Things didn't feel right. On valentines Eve he was cooking me a lovely meal. I put the kids to bed and looked in his suit jacket and found another phone. Put the sim in my phone and guess what up popped a message from ow saying it had been lovely seeing him earlier!! That was it the end for me. He left the nxt morning to live with OW who is now 27 and he is 47. He gave me all the crap about she makes him feel young, doesn't want the family life anymore she can make him happy etc. bully for her. I have my two beautiful children that is enough for me at the moment. Keep strong OP. It is incredible how many lies the use when they are on love!

and I have put a number of conditions on the work situation with her

I'm not sure how much contact he will still have with her. I had an affair with someone at work a long time ago, when I was in my early 20's and he was late 20's. He sounds a lot like your h so this thread has been fascinating to see what my (or even his) life may have been. (Sadly he died in an accident when he was 32). I actually didn't want to have an affair with him, but it was impossible to just work with each other with that level of emotion. There are ample opportunities to have sex even in the workplace, with him still going home every evening. It's pretty sordid though. Your h had a double life for 6 months without even giving you an inkling of suspicion. How can you be so sure it won't happen again if she's still around?

Like your h (probably), the guy I was with was very charismatic, charming, clever, fit, emotional, intense. There were lots and lots of good things about him. I even believe that basically he had a good heart. He just wasn't husband or father material. He just had something. Women used to throw themselves at him and he wasn't even that good looking! He was brilliant with clients, as well as being very clever, so he was fantastic in the workplace and was an MD of a large company very young.

I'm sorry it's taking so long for your h to 'decide'. I'm sorry you need to persuade him to stay. I'm really sorry your heart has taken (and is taking) such a beating. I really can't imagine what that is like with children thrown into the mix. I am glad the middle 2 are yours, so that they will always have you anyway.

I hope and pray that if this is going to happen all over again in 6 months or 2 years or 5 years, that he decides to go now. Maybe he will realise who he really is, what his needs really are, and that will help make the decision for him. I think if he decides to go, it will not be to set up home with the OW but will be because he realises he is not cut out for the domestic life - and she will not be lasting more than a few more months.

Might I predict he will confirm to you that it's all over with the OW, and that each and every one of your conditions has been fulfilled?

Might I also predict he will be lying?

Unless he is very different to the common-or-garden scumbag we hear about on relationships (and I doubt that very much- he actually seems worse than most, because this one is calculating, and has reduced you to such a shadow of a woman that he really is despicable in how little he thinks of you) what he will actually have done, is tell the OW that they need to lie low for a while.

There will be flowers, there will be romantic nights, and there will be fantastic sex. You will turn into a kind of Stepford pole dancer in your desperation to make him want you, and not her. You will walk on eggshells and will not have a second's peace when he is out of your sight, and when he is in your sight, you will be wondering how long he spends in the bathroom, where that extra PAYG phone is that you suspect he has bought to contact her on.

And you will come back in 6 mths and tell us that it was thus.

You need tough love from us now.

Oh yes, I forgot. In my case, he was having sex with both of us. He liked sex. Obviously with me, it was more intense due to the nature of an affair (this wore off when it wasn't an affair anymore). But I think it was pretty good with her too. I don't think he was addicted to sex, but he was addicted to intense emotion, the experience of falling in love, or winning someone over. (His last relationship was with someone who had been engaged).

Really, thinking about this. I understand you want to try, and a lot of this is for the sake of the children. I don't think that is wrong, or even that he is beyond redemption. However, the way you are going about it is not going to prove that he wants you or the family.

I think the way to try would be for him to move out for a bit and win you all back again if that is what he really wants and you really want, with some space for both of you to think about it. If he moves out and decides it's not for him, it's better that you know now whilst your mutual child is still very young. Right now you are clinging on to him and this just doesn't feel right to me.

Hi Truly40

I think your husband has a little script going:
he likes career women who are independent and exciting who then fall for him and adore him
He marries them
However, he thinks women who are married should be mothers and housewives
SO he gets his wife to stop work and be a full time mum
Then he notices that a full time mum is not an independent career woman who adores him
So he looks for an independent career woman who will adore him and....

Hence he is serial adulterer - if you stay with this man you need to accept that:
he does not really like you
he does not respect you
he doesn't care about you
He thinks sleeping with other women is fine and if you find out, you should just "get over it"
He wants to adored sometimes - and other times have someone who keeps his house clean
Nothing is ever his fault

Effectively you are his housekeeper/nanny who doesn't get paid and who he can have sex with without making an effort.

As another poster has said, if you have had partners who continually cheat it is because they know they can get away with it and you are not likely to make a fuss (or if you do it is a fuss they can ignore) or you will just put up with it.

This man is appalling - if he left you and went with the OW she will be listening to exactly the same crap from him in 5 years time.

I do urge you to throw this man out to be adored by some other deluded female and concentrate on finding a man who likes you and cares about your feelings.

Don't think you have to be treated like this - and he is doing this not because it is right, but because he can.

Haven't read your whole thread OP but in answer to your question, yes of course marriages can survive passionate affairs. I know a couple who are devoted and soul mates. Almost ruined by his behaviour when - guess what? - DC were small (why are men such clichés?) But she made some decisions that suited her and he realised what he'd lose. And I know of others that have survived more than one affair from both parties. Depends on your personal attitude top affairs. Don't let anyone tell you that you should either ltb or stand by your man - do what is right for you, no one else.

Please point out to your DH that he'd never have a 'carefree' life with her as he'd have custody of his children every weekend, as you would have them during the week!

With regard to the family set up, which many of you are asking about - 20 yr old is his - has no relationship with his own mother, 2 middle kids are mine, and then toddler is ours together

So he was expecting you to maintain a home for his 20 year old (no biological relationship to you, whatever the actual relationship), as well as take on full-time care of your toddler -- all because he wanted 1st) a secure home so he could work 60 hrs per week; and then 2nd) because having required you to subsume your identity into his and the family's, he decided he didn't like that set up.

What an utter tosser. If he goes, his 20 year old goes with him. And his 2 year old. Let him see what you've been doing for him.

Reading back more carefully, you mentioning how he encouraged you to have another baby and stay at home got me worried. It's the type of thing abusers do to control women.
To make sure they are not financially independent and have more reasons not to leave.
He thought that he could lead a double life and he thought he would make you fight for him. Because he was sure he could control you.
Thankfully, you have realised you have options. I just hope that you don't lose them.

This makes me wonder about your finances too. I hope you have sufficient control and also have your own nest. In any case, beware.

OP were you the OW in the break up
of the relationship he had with the mother of his 20 year old ? If not you, was there another woman involved?
Was he the Other Man in the breakup of your relationship with the father of your children?
Is there a pattern to be seen?
Has he been spinning you a line for some time?
In relationships nothing surprises me anymore- not since I heard DNephews marriage broke up after 8 weeks because he found out his wife had been having an affair for ages with a co worker. DNephew had been living with new wife for three years prior to the wedding!

TheLadyRadishes said Yes, on the one hand it's good to be honest. On the other, don't let that make you think he's a lovely, poor tortured bloke just because he's fessing up and indulging in a lot of soul-baring about how he loves you both. That does NOT make what he has done OK and if you look at the bigger picture, he has form for buggering off to claim his freedom in a thoroughly entitled manner.

I agree, and I would add that he thinks he loves you both. But he doesn't. That's not love. He fancies you both. He finds you both useful. He finds you both good company. But that's all about him, isn't it? All about how his life can be enhanced by having you both in it. And how he can benefit by playing you off against each other to win his affection.

He doesn't appear to really care about either of you as people with feelings, opinions, ambitions of your own. If he loved you he wouldn't have cheated on you and then acted like it was nothing, that decisions about the future of the relationship are his alone to make. If he loved her then he wouldn't be jeopardising her career, lying to her and would make himself available to be with her. Instead he's messing you both about, trying to figure out what's in his best interests. The only person he loves in all this is himself.

This has all come as a terrible shock to you. You need time and space to grieve the relationship and husband you thought you had. It didn't exist because secretly he was someone else, cheating on you behind your back whilst you were raising his child, sacrificing your old career and trying to build a new one. It maybe feels like person you thought you married has disappeared, and in place of him is his identical, but much less admirable twin. This twin would cheat on the mother of his young child, behave unprofessionally at work potentially risking his job, pretend to be hard at work whilst carrying out an affair, spending family money and/or his employer's money on the OW, blame you for working, blame you for SAH (as he wanted), for having children (that he wanted) etc.

I understand why you would grieve the man you lost when you discovered this. But going forward, the only man available is the cheating scumbag version. Of course you think you love him, because he looks and feels like the man you lost, but he is never going to be that first man again, because he never was. He doesn't think there is anything wrong with a drunken one night stand, or a couple of shags after that. Remember that, he is telling you who he is. Believe him.

What happens after all this torture, this forgiving him and rebuilding the relationship if he decides to leave anyway? He thinks its his choice to make and has already said that he thinks he'll resent you for spoiling his fun.

Definitely speak to a solicitor so that you know what the practicalities would be if the relationship does end. Its better to have that knowledge even if you don't use it, in case mr. unreliable disappears in a month/3/6 months time. Know your options

The only person he loves in all this is himself.

Very accurate, wolf. That's why I think he is immature, because he hasn't realised what real love is - by the age of 50!

I echo what previous posters have said: "love" in the true sense is an action, a decision, not a "feeling" which floats around and descends upon the hapless unfortunate who then says "oh well I couldn't help it, I fell in love!"

Real love, the kind that is worth having, is a not a feeling, it is a decision to continue acting lovingly towards someone even though at that moment some of the shine may have gone, or the person is seriously ill, or depressed, or unemployed, or struggling with weight issues or whatever it is. Real love is born out of that commitment that come what may, it is my choice to love my partner and honour and cherish him/her. When both partners are confident that this is the other's attitude, then true depth is achieved in relationship, then you can really feel that the other person really is your rock.

Love merely on a transient basis is worthless. "Oh, well I used to love you when you were independent and strong but now you have a kid you've gone a bit wet, I don't fancy you much anymore so I will get my kicks elsewhere". That's not love and never was. That is someone being with you in the fair weather and for as long as it suits him.

Please OP, call time on this chap. There are many many better ones out there. For example, plenty of men would have sensed that boundaries were being approached with their PA, would have had a frank chat with the PA and put a stop to it, and made sure they only related in a purely professional sense from then on. They would probably also have felt uncomfortable and confided in their wife about it. My own DH did exactly this, when an attractive colleague of his started getting rather fruity with him. At that point I had a toddler and a baby, was overweight, knackered and a grumpy harridan to live with. Still my DH did the right thing as he has made a COMMITMENT to me.

That's the kind of guy you need.

It all sounds very passionate and very exciting and very focused on him.

I know I don't know his good points, but find myself rather hating the sound of him, I have to say.

Mumpster I just read your post. You sound like you have been through a very tough time and are strong. I wish you massive happiness in the future in every single thing you do.

Think you're in shock and firefighting, trying to make things as they were instead of figuring out what you really want given what he has done. By next week you will be angry and want him gone, I think.... regardless of whether he has decided to stay or not.

I also think if he stays and you do decide to try to work things out, he will need to leave his job. No way can you move forward if he's still seeing her and working closely with he every day.

What happened Truly?

I think its kinda sad of you husband to say its tiring as maybe if he wasn't investing time in the affair and on your family instead perhaps things would be different?

Then again 48 seems bit old to have kids if you both have them already - did he really want it or go along with it?

He had a conversation with OW today which he said he needed to do - saying we didn't think he could leave his kids. But he's still in love with her and hasn't told her it's over - just said that he won't see her for the time being.
He asked to spend a few more days together - to spend time with the kids and to relieve the pressure. I told him I'd made it clear that he needed to move out if he didn't finish with OW today. He says if I'm asking him to leave can we at least decide what to tell the kids first.
He says that he finds it difficult being around me as he feels so guilty all the time, and that any time with OW relaxes him. Well, Yeah - Duh! When he's just ripped my heart out and fucked me over - he better start embracing some guilt and pain!

So he's sleeping on the sofa - and hey, OW is texting "Goodnight darling xx" as he showed me - and I've just heard his phone beeping again so I'm pretty sure they're texting each other as I write.

Starting to see this is a hopeless case - pretty despondent and in shock all over again - regardless of how many of you said I told you so.
But I am confiding in some RL friends, been reading ' How can I ever Trust You again?' by Andrew G Marshall, and also starting to see a lot more of the selfish, self-serving, deceitful, twunt of a man, than the man I thought I knew.

So - starting to wake up and smell the coffee - but it's been less than a week, so give me some time and go gentle, people - I'm a shaking, panic-stricken, heartbroken, drastically thinner mess right now.

(and in response to someone's question - no, I wasn't the OW in his split up. He was already separated, and I met him a few months after my separation as he gave me some financial and legal advice) And yes, I thought he was a knight in shining armour, and yes, you're all probably going to say I was suckered at a vulnerable time - but please, not too much analysis - I can't take it right now)

Anyone detect the "I'm starting to get fucked off with this bullshit" attitude in my post?

Jesus OP, he's a prime twunt isn't he? Showing you messages, blaming you for his feeling guilty (the cheek!). FWIW it looks to me as though you are getting stronger far quicker than many women do in your situation, and you have my absolute respect for that. I hope you at some point find the strength to get him off your sofa and out of your house as well, but as you say, it's been less than a week. Just try not to let him suck any more energy and vitality out of you - because that's what he is, an energy vampire.

You're doing really well OP. Keep opening that chink of anger and outrage and soon the light will come flooding in.
He still seems to think he has a vote or say in how he wants things to be. I hope you can make him move out asap and show him you mean business. He is testing you to see if he can get away with not finishing it with OW.

Thinking of you, Truly.

Goodness me, it really is all about him isn't it. Has he no shame?

Oh gosh, his behaviour really is shocking isn't it?

He showed you her text?!

He's told her that basically he loves her but he'll stay with you because he doesn't want to leave the kids! WTF?!

Calmed down a bit, and he's showing me any contact between them to try to show he's being open and honest. (hmm, she still thinks). I checked his phone for further messages as I heard his phone ping but it was actually an email....so maybe he is sticking to his promise of minimal contact.
He is incredibly selfish - very little about my welfare in all his considerations - but I don't think he can face walking out on the kids.

And the one thing I am realising is that it's all still so raw and unbelievable, I'm so tired, getting obsessed by thoughts of contact with OW, stressed beyond belief, and emotions all over the place as to whether I should be standing back giving myself and him some space (yes, I know - most of you think I should kick him into space) before decide on whether he's moving out or not. If it's over, well then it is - and we need to calmly discuss the kids and all other practical stuff.

The worst scenario for me is putting my kids through separation and trauma again - I'm not saying at all costs to myself and self-respect.

But I'm thinking of taking a step back and just breathing in and out for a few days (with the odd hyperventilation I'm sure when all the parents and in-laws are here)

Hi OP, just wanted to let you know that even at this time in the morning when you're unable to sleep, someone is wishing you well & virtual handholding.
You have had such a terrible shock, discovering the man you married is not the person you thought he was after all this time. And it's not always as simple as KTBO when you have children to consider.
Your posts are telling us you're really strong, you are not a pushover. All the best OP.