Does the OW ever feel any remorse/guilt?

[RealUnreality]

This is a very general question purely out of curiosity.

I'm am not or never have been an OW. I was the victim of one years ago, but that is not the issue.

This thread certainly has lots of experience, hence my question.

The husband is the guilty party.

They've probably lied to the OWcabout the marriage being dead anyhow.

Real - honestly I am sorry you have been sniped at in this thread but your thread title and opening post posed a loaded question even if that was not your intent.

"Does the OW ever feel any remorse..."

"I was the victim"

I could have ignored your thread but I was more invested in responding because I found the tone provocative. On this site you can't dictate who respond to your posts so if you want different fish you need to use different bait iyswim.

For e.g.

Thread title: how the other woman feels

OP: I am curious about how a woman who has an affair with a married man feels - years after the dust has settled...

May have got different replies - anyhow you understand that you are not posting in a vacuum everyone brings their baggage to MN it is what makes the site interesting

Egghead I agree with you, it's definitely the husband who is the bad guy in this but the mistress is not in any way blameless by a long shot.

Either she's stupid enough to believe the stereotypical bullshit about his wife not understanding and the marriage being dead and just waiting for the right time for the kids etc (please!) or she's bloody evil too to not care that he has a wife and family and still continue the affair once she knows regardless, who she is going to play a 50% role in destroying emotionally, mentally and financially and break their hearts, cause the kids psychological issues forever and possibly destroy the wife and her trust in others for the rest of her life. Even if she didn't know he was married till way into the relationship once she finds out she ends it, simple! I do not buy this bullshit about falling in love and not being able to help it, if it's love and going to last forever then first off he should have no problem leaving his wife and secondly if they have the next 40/50 years together what is a few weeks while he ends his current relationship? It's like a teenager getting knocked up and using the excuse that they got too wrapped up in the moment to think to use contraception. Sorry but it's bullshit.athere is ALWAYS a part of your brain awake enough to think sex=contraception, marriage=off limits. But if he can cheat with her he can cheat on her, and if she's helped break up a family I hope he does in the worst most hurtful and underhand way possible. There is never any excuse to cheat or to allow yourself to become the other woman and I could not be friends with someone who does that. I think the OW is as much to blame as the husband, more so if she actively pursued him. Men are largely weak, pathetic and easy to manipulate and if at any point she played the games and flirted or chased or gave him a green light then frankly she deserves to burn as much as he does. There is never a reason to not say stop, have him talk to his wife, end it, then once he is free start up with the next one. Though I wouldn't trust anyone who did that. I was married 12 years, does my husband seriously think in all that time no one chased me or made me offers or that I never met anyone I didn't fancy or wouldn't have gone for had I been single?? Of course I did, some of them were lovely men, ones I would still go for now that I'm single given a chance, ones that could have turned into something. But I took my marriage seriously and I loved my husband, and even when we had problems my priority was talking to him and fixing it with him, not talking to whatever random bloke was trying it on this week. I hope these women get hurt three times as much as the wives and children they've destroyed and end up alone and destroyed, it's all they deserve.

That "If he can cheat with her, he can cheat on her" is a bit of a misnomer though, isn't it. If you apply it to the wives, presumably he didn't cheat with her, although he cheated on her...

It's just more of the trite platitudes along with 'once a cheater' and 'karma will get them' that are trotted out; they distract rather than soothe or help people to get past awful events. Affairs are wrong, always - they still happen.

OP... it would be better for you to have posted your thread in AIBU or Chat really than here. Relationships is supposed to be about support and there are many women who have been badly hurt by cheating here.

There's currently an interesting thread as to the 'likelihood of finding true love from an affair' or something like that. If you find it, you'll see that there is a different perspective, which may or may not answer your question.

I personally think that people miss the point and pigeonhole OW/OM into this or that category and it's often without any basis in reality. I think that OW/OM DO feel remorse at another person's sadness, even if they themselves have been instrumental in causing that. It would be a very hard person indeed to be immune to another person's pain and tears and, from what I read here, the only people capable of such coldness is the cheating spouse themselves.

But surely if they are capable of feeling remorse for the pain they caused, they wouldn't cause that pain in the first place and would not be the OW/OM?? They would insist the other person make themselves single before doing anything with them. It's not like they were forced into a situation and had to make a decision in which someone would regrettably get hurt, they knew exactly what they were doing, they continued seeing the married person, emailing, texting, taking and making the phone calls, having sex with them! They had a choice. They actively chose to continue that vile underhand cruel behaviour and destroy a family. Good people don't do that, people with morals, integrity, a conscience, a heart and who care don't behave like that.

Cheating after going through the ceremony and display of a wedding, after being with someone for years, building a home with them, dreaming of a future and old age together, having children with them is (or rather should be) a huge deal, I imagine the first time someone does something like that, something in them changes forever, that sacred vow and trust and bond has been destroyed forever. I'd imagine the first time you do it would actually be quite difficult and a mental struggle. But once you've done it once that hurdle is gone, that struggle, that vow, it doesn't exist anymore. It would be far easier to do it a second time. With anything the first time is always the hardest but once you've done anything once it's never so scary again. I rather pity my ex's OW. She must be pretty thick to think she can hold him if I couldn't, that he won't cheat on her if he did on me, that he'll treat her any better when he does cheat, and he will, I'm pretty sure she wasn't the first, and she certainly won't be the last.

Random, I do understand what you're saying but it's not as 'black and white' as that, or at least I don't think it is.

If you've never been in the position of being truly tested - and I mean by this that you've met somebody and felt an incredible connection to them - and they with you - and have had to consider 'what if?' because the possibilities are there, then you will not understand what it's like.

It is a conscious decision, of course it is, but the steps to get there can be very blurred. There's always a period where one should pull back (yet there's nothing to pull back from, so no need) to a time where somebody is in too deep (by which time it's too late). Do you really think that somebody - anybody - embarking on an affair is thinking about the spouses/children in all of this maelstrom? The behaviour might well be cruel and underhand as you describe but in an affair, it is often considered only that IF there's discovery of the affair. I personally know several people who are maintaining almost double-lives and all the innocent parties are seemingly oblivious.

Good people have affairs. I know that is difficult to get your head around because it's awful behaviour but that doesn't change the essence of what a person's character is. I don't think it has much to do with 'morals' either as most people seem to be quite adept at deviating from customary 'good' behaviour (unrelated to affairs) as it suits them.

I agree with you that actively breaking marriage vows does mean that something has been 'damaged' in the marriage. I wouldn't necessarily say that it would be an easy decision to make, (which is what makes affairs potentially devastating to relationships) and I don't agree that having an affair for a subsequent time means that 'all barriers have gone'. What I think it does mean is that the barriers were not there in the first place, and that isn't an easy thing to stomach.

I can see that you're in pain Random and are clinging on to the hope that your ex treats the OW in the same way he treated you. He may not, you know. People don't enter into affairs lightly (one night stands and casual things excepted), they just don't. They risk losing all and are still prepared to lose it. Some people are with the wrong people to start and yes, in an ideal world people would end their marriages and relationships first before embarking on another one, but that's not how life always pans out. I believe that people don't leave relationships without consciously deciding to and, if they leave for another person, there's a chance that they will spend some time introspectively looking at their own contribution to the marriage/relationship they have left, and not repeat it with the next one. If you read the thread currently on AIBU, you will see that this is indeed the case, but it's hard reading if you've been on the receiving end.

No one person can hold another - marriage ceremony or not. I would think that any OW/OM would be more aware of that than most.

"Me are weak and easily manipulated" .... Wow. Bless them, maybe we should give them sympathy next time they fall dick first into another woman??? For goodness sake how ridiculous! No one gender is all weak or largely weak. Everyone has a brain and a mouth. They have the ability to say no. Whether they do or not has nothing to do with being a man or a woman!!!

I am a good person. I was an ow. I was young stupid and very lacking in confidence. Nothing excuses what I did though and no doubt he is still chasing other woman, just because he can. Not because he is weak but because he is clever and charming to women who are a little vulnerable. And I do feel sorry for his wife. But if my husband ever cheats on me, that will be all his fault for not saying no, doesn't matter who the ow is.

Cross-posted with you, PreciousBane. Your sister sounds very damaged. She's judging and gauging her 'worth' with how many men she can 'steal' and, in flirting with your husband, was obviously keen to assess her own attractiveness/effectiveness and ability to 'take' a man if she wanted to. She obviously had no interest in him other than using him as leverage to thumb her nose at you.

Lying I appreciate you very well worded & thoughtful reply but I can't agree. I've met men who I was interested in but the second I've seen that ring or heard the word "wife", that is it, game over, they are off the market and there is no negotiation on that. It doesn't matter how many times I see them, how long I talk to them for, if I work with them 40 hours a week, they are married, end of. If they tried anything with me it would completely turn me off! That he could treat his wife like that, that he could think I could be a mistress, my self esteem is rock bottom but even I have more than that! If we were friends and something deeper was growing, I would still never act on it or allow them to, that ring is a chastity belt outside the marriage and if he wants to be with me he has to leave his wife, be honest, mature and respectful to her, and come to me when he is single. I'm nearly 40, I've had married men make a pass at me in the last 25 years, of course I have, but like I said a conscience and morals and empathy have always created a mental wall around that person, they are off limits full stop. No man, not even my ex husband and god knows I loved him with all my heart far more than he ever deserved and I took a lot of shit from him for the sake of love, could knock down that wall once it's up, how could they?? I couldn't do that to another woman. And sorry but any woman who could should be shot frankly. There is no excuse and I cannot abide it. I feel so strongly that I actually think cheating should be made a criminal offence and both parties face charges for it, I really do.

Random, your post describes exactly how I feel. Exactly. In my earlier post I explained that the OW was a widow of 6 months with a small child when she started an affair with my H. I will never understand how she can inflict such a similar pain as bereavement (and believe me, I know all about that in spades) on another person, and leave my son effectively fatherless when her own has lost his. It is a twisted thing to do.

Random... you'd have to shoot the men then also.

From what you've said in your post, you rebuffed the advances successfully on finding out the man was married BUT I would suggest that it doesn't always work out like that. Sometimes, you can be colleagues with somebody, both be married and both upfront about it (because why wouldn't you be?) and you work together, do projects together, meet to talk about work and you develop your friendship. You feel safe and secure in it because you're both married and you trust each other with the developing friendship (and there's no reason to pull back) because it IS just friendship and there's nothing to pull back from. By the time that there is a point at which both should have pulled away, they realise that they can't/won't - and it's too late.

I don't believe that men or women go into an affair wanting to 'steal' the affair partner from their spouse and family. It is sometimes an outcome and, admittedly, it is horrendous for the cheated on persons involved.

Cheating is a criminal offence in some Middle Eastern countries; stoning (of women) is the penalty. Would you really want to see that here?

I think the best revenge - although a dreadful cliché - is a life well-lived. To waste no more time and tears over somebody who has betrayed you because they're not worthy of your time and emotion any longer.

No Lying, I don't believe it's ever too late and passed the point of no return. You/they are married! So you have a friendship and a connection, you work closely, one night everyone goes for a drink for someone in accounts' leaving do, you have a few drinks and a laugh, she leaves to get a cab home, he walks her to the taxi rank, they go for a brief kiss on the cheek goodbye but it lasts just a second too long, neither of you pulls apart from the hug, you look into each others eyes, you feel yourselves being drawn in, you start closing your eyes, your lips almost touch... then you snap awake, put your grown up head in gear, say I'm sorry I can't, the other person agrees it was a mistake you separate, she gets in the cab and on Monday you agree it was the drink and from then on you start taking projects with other colleagues, start eating your lunch with other people, start talking to others in their department when needed instead of them, you look for a new job if need be but you basically grow up. And if you really can't live without them then you speak to the person you are in a relationship with and explain that you have met someone you want to be with, that nothing has happened yet but you want to be with them and are leaving them and in a few weeks/months time when you are both free you start something. Are people seriously that weak and feeble minded, that immature and disrespectful and that out of control of their bodies and emotions that people are actually trying to argue that they couldn't help it, it was an accident, she tripped and landed on his dick and both the entire time just "forgot" about the wedding ring??? I've been pretty drunk in the past but never THAT drunk.

And its all very well saying the best revenge is a good life but when you are so traumatised by what he did to you that you can't trust other men again and when you've tried you've been hurt again and now you're convinced that it's you, you pick really bad men, and when you are busy putting the kids first and trying to manage their emotions through this and desperately trying to make sure this doesn't screw them up forever but you can see every day in some small way it has, and you can't risk introducing them to someone else who could hurt them like that again it makes it a bit difficult. It's all well and good for the cheater, they have no soul, no heart, no conscience, no empathy and they just crack on with it, they weren't there when the child was waking up in the night screaming with nightmares or looking into their heartbroken eyes because daddy didn't turn up because he wanted to see his whore instead, and he wasn't stupid enough to believe the lies that this person loved you and would change the world to fix your marriage and be with you, and wanted more children with you whilst working so hard on a "work project" which had him at the office every night till 10pm and going in on weekends, whilst you're at home looking after his kids and in actual fact he's at the pub 170 yards from the house with that bitch and all the neighbour's are there and know about it and are laughing at you and when you see them tomorrow and wave a cheery hello and ask how the driveway is coming along they chat happily knowing that last night your husband was fucking someone else while you stayed in babysitting his children. Sorry but it's not so easy to brush over. When you loved someone so much you would do anything to be with them and they treat you like that and you were so stupid you believed that nothing was going on, makes it kind of hard to trust again. Especially when every week you hear of yet another of your friends he has introduced her to, another of your aunts houses he has visited, another of your special restaurants and days out he's taken her too and when your children come back saying this woman is "not nice" to them and has taken the decision on her own to hack off 8" of your daughter's beautiful golden mermaid hair so she doesn't have to wash and brush it.... I hope they both get hit by a truck.

I'm sure that most if them do. I think that most human beings are capable of empathy when they realise the person they are hurting is a real individual, nit just some pantomime joke. I suspect that more often than not the OW (or OM) allows themself to simply not think about it. In the same way most of us buy cheap t-shirts and coffee from time to time without considering the ethics of our purchases. Being selfish is so easy in the world we have made.

With time you begin to understand more perhaps. I had an EA a long time ago. I never gave his Gf a thought apart from occasional fleeting irritation. But she never knew that he offered to leave her and wanted me to get a divorce. I don't know what happened after that with them, it was such a long time ago, but having been in her position more recently and finding out, I certainly have a lot more empathy.

Random..you too the words right out of my mouth!

Random. You brought tears to my eyes. That's just how I feel

When I contacted the OW, she had no idea her new boyfriend had a partner of nine years and was seven months pregnant.

I felt really sorry for her. She had lost her virginity to my 'D'H after waiting well into her twenties for the right guy.
She finished with him, and he stalked her shamelessy for ages.
I ended up feeling worse for her than for myself.

MikeTheShite...it's good to know we are not alone, something that I have found to be a huge comfort since joining Mumsnet so recently. I send you strength and peace x

Get lost with the struck a nerve crap OP. Your OP was loaded with judgement.

If you really want an objective discussion then think up an unbiased way to ask the question.

Though why this subject is of such interest to you I don't know, and you haven't explained.

Well said Random

mrsc Yes I find some comfort from knowing im not alone

Random... I've been on the receiving end myself and it isn't nice. I didn't have children at the time so that must be an added 'slice of agony' exactly as you've described.

I can't really comment on the way that you've described how affairs happen as I don't share your view, but I think we are agreed that they are wrong and avoidable, definitely. They also can be very devastating, yet some people manage to get through them, forgive their partner and rejuvenate their marriage - and others manage to somehow get past the hurt and move on with their lives. When you have children with the betraying spouse then I suppose it isn't so easy as you have that link forever.

I'm sorry that you're feeling so obviously hurt and pained and I really don't want to add to it at all. I forget sometimes that just because I got through relatively unscathed and am now happy, it doesn't pan out that way for everybody. I just wanted to post back and say that I understand.

So often I read something like 'Why couldn't he make himself single before starting the next relationship?', 'Why couldn't she find a single man?' and so on.

Not all affairs occur because people want to be with someone else full time, forever. People can have an illicit additional relationship without wanting to leave their primary relationship.

This isn't an attempt to excuse or justify anything just to widen the understanding of why people don't 'make themselves single' or 'find a single man'.

Two people married to others can have a relationship in which neither of them want to leave their marriages. The affair meets a need that enables the primary relationship to continue. Ironically, when that kind of affair ends (possibly without the cheated on spouses ever knowing about it) that's when the marriages can come under extra strain because that need is again unmet.

Let me stress I am not saying this justifies the affair or that this applies in all cases. Just that it does happen.

Thank you so much to everybody who has shared their points of view/opinions, they have been insightful and some upsetting.

I've no idea why people have chosen to take what I've said the wrong way, I thought I was being just straight to the point.

I've kept my own opinion out of it as I was curious to hear other people's points of view.

I have my own experience of pain caused by an affair, I've laid on the floor night after night suicidal and spent countless months in counselling, but, like I said that was then and this is now.

From my own person experience I'd say no, there is no guilt remorse, the OW in my own RL experience is very happy and claims it was all worth it (I had 3 DC who were very heartbroken). But that was my point, mine is but one experience. Of course I knew women on these boards knew about the pain of affairs, that's why I posted here. I said 'victim' (albeit perhaps an incorrect word) to assure people I also knew the pain of affairs and what not being insensitive.

Recently I've read lots about the aftermaths of affairs, and given my own experience, was curious to know c the dust has settled, and everyone has moved on with their lives, how does this affect the woman who was one half of a relationship that caused the wife/partner to be hurt?

Maybe I'm over simplistic, ask an genuine question get a genuine response? I can tell you 100% it was not provocative but I guess no matter how much time I waste trying to explain myself in detail it will not make any difference at all.

I've asked for this thread to be deleted as clearly it's upset a lot of people, so to all who are still hurting, I hope you find your peace, it is there. Thanks again