DP dragging his heels about our future

[CarryOnDreaming]

I’ve been with DP for 3 years, living together for a little over half of that. I’m 35 and he’s 34 although we both feel younger than that at heart. We clicked from the word go – we have the same sense of humour, interests, plenty of chemistry, get on great with each others’ friends and trust each other completely. He’s held in high regard by colleagues, friends and family and is a truly lovely person. Great, I thought: FINALLY someone worth it on my wavelength!

When we first got serious and had the talk about out future, he said he envisaged us marrying in around 3 years and starting a family in around 5. I was 32 at the time and thought 37 might be pushing it to start TTC, but we’re both ambitious career-wise and told myself it might be just as well we got that side out our lives figured out first, as well as not rushing into things.

3 years on and there’s no sign of taking the relationship on to the next stage. I had a talk with him about the future in a non-pushy way and while he says he definitely still wants to marry me and have a family, it’s in abstract terms of “some day” as he doesn’t feel ready yet. He insisted that was no reflection on his feelings for me. The reasons he gave were 1) He’s overwhelmed by his demanding job and couldn’t see how planning a wedding / being a dad would fit into that right now 2) Our house isn’t big enough to accommodate a child and we can’t afford to move 3) He’d never considered settling down with anyone before me and while he thought becoming a dad was what he wanted, he now thinks he might have been in that mindset just because it’s what people do, and now he’s not 100% sure if he wants kids because life’s stressful enough and at present we have freedom to enjoy ourselves which alleviates that stress.

I’m a planner, whereas he prefers to go with the flow, but when it comes to my fertility, I don’t think he’s quite grasped, despite me explaining it to him, that it doesn’t quite work that way! He seems to see things back to front compared to me, ie: my solution to our house bursting at the seams with no room for a child would be to save up for an extension, whereas he says we can’t afford that (we could if we budgeted, but the thought of spending large sums of money on anything terrifies him) and then a year down the line he’ll still use the same excuse about the house not being big enough!

I love this man with all my heart. He’s not only my partner but my best friend. We have a really warm, affectionate loving relationship and I couldn’t imagine not sharing the rest of my life with him or wanting a family with anyone but him, but when I’m laying awake at night I worry that I’m going to look back at the age of 40 and nothing has changed and I’ll have missed the boat. I often wondered why such a charismatic, loyal, caring, funny person such as him hadn’t been snapped up before – perhaps it’s because he’s just too much of a Peter Pan? Or perhaps I just need to be patient and stop worrying so much? Opinions welcomed, thank you.

Why the hell was he crying during the conversation? Surely you hadn't raised any points you hadn't raised before... Sounds extremely manipulative to me.
Tears and a ring, to get you to back away from the main issue.
And you did.

Think we should give him a chance and see. Having an engagement does give you extra rights as a cohabitee tbh. It is a meaningful thing.

Think the op can wait a little because it sounds like what she wants is the marriage predominantly and her choice is basically that she wants children with him or not at all.

I agree Molly.all that's changed is op got a ring,he's still ambivalent on ttc
In spirit of all things candid,set imminent wedding date,tell folk in next 2weeks.
Revisit again the kids and ttc,if you don't get firm date worry.you said end of year when PhD finished

OP when you have the TTC discussion, please try not to be pushed into waiting to start until you have the money saved for an extension, wedding, honeymoon etc.

I get waiting for a few months so you're not finishing your PhD on your due date if you did manage to conceive straight away. But other than that there will never be an ideal time or situation to have a baby. The later you leave it, the less your chances are. Your house might not be ideal for family life but lots of people have babies in small houses and muddle along ok. And if you have a plan to save and build an extension at some point, you'll be in a better position than many.

Can I please just throw into the mix:

I'm 37 and my first child is due in 4 days. We weren't planning on having children so weren't even TTC- a condom split, and I got pregnant. So it can happen- I know several other mothers to be who are around the same age. I also work with one who is 44 and her child is only 2.

So while there will always be a "sell by date"- I don't think you should panic just yet.

it's just not something he envisaged doing right now

This is all you need to know OP, all the tears, the 'feeling closer to him', the ring, is irrelevant. You haven't 'finally got through to him' that he needs 'compromise on timescale' because you either start ttc now, or you may not have kids. If he didn't agree to that last night, you're no better off than you were before. If you stay you need to be clear in your mind that you choose your relationship with him over kids.

Don't be fooled by the small minority of women who manage to get pregnant a 40. It's a fluke.

Think we should give him a chance and see. Having an engagement does give you extra rights as a cohabitee tbh. It is a meaningful thing.

Erm, it doesn't give you anything!!!! I wasted 7 odd years being 'engaged' . It's bs. Get married! TBH, I really really don't understand now (having been one of those women!) why anyone would hang around just 'being engaged'.

OP I'm sorry, i missed the bit where you said he'd given you a ring. You need to get planning the wedding now. You will then really see whether he's up for it, or just buying time (like my ex did)

thedrunkenduck but surely to be married and giving birth by 37, the OP would have to start now, or at least in the next 6 months. She's 35 now. That's the whole point.

Hope it all works out for you OP, though I do rather wonder if the engagement ring isn't just a handy gesture to make you shut up for the time being.

However, one positive thing I can share is that it's not impossible to get PG in your late 30s. My 9 year old DS was a big surprise to me and I was 39 at the time, not TTC, convinced I was past it etc all then he arrived.

Stepawayfromthezebras Agreed. The saving for an extension is just another stalling tactic imo...

In your own mind set a deadline. Perhaps after your phd finishes. If you're not ttc by 3 months after this then you know you're answer.
Engagement rings, weddings may be for real or an excellent distraction device.

Agreed SolidGoldBrass The engagement ring, the mooted wedding, the extension - all of it is just more stalling...

When I turned 36 I turned to my fiancé and told him that my fertility was about to fall off a cliff and could we start TTC. We were saving for our first home and hadn't booked a wedding. He wanted all those things first so I showed him some evidence of fertility post 35 and he agreed to start TTC. 5 months later bought house and booked a wedding for the following year and exactly a year to the day of starting I fell pregnant, delivering a healthy baby at 38 getting married at 21 weeks preganant, It all worked out.

However had he not agreed to TTC at that point but said yes to the concept then I would have waited and tried from wedding onwards. If that age he said that he wasn't willing to commit to the idea of having children then I would have left. At 35 I was confident that I had enough time to meet someone else. You are too.

Can you book a weekend away to somewhere fabulous and thrash this out?

OP I know you said that currently you would rather stay in a relationship with him given the choice, but if you really do want children that's an awful lot to give up and potentially in ten years time you may regret that decision and end up resenting your DH.

Of course there is a possibility that he does want children and marriage, just not with you. I know that's harsh, but it is something that crops up on here from time to time.

That's a promising development OP but as has been said do keep focused on the kids issue. There's a line in Friends, where someone says 'I don't want a wedding. I want a marriage'. Tell your fiance that. You can easily organise a do that isn't fancy but that will fit all his family in, in the next six months. Do it and then ttc with your PhD in hand.

I can't reconcile your two statements that "you are 95% sure you want children" and "if it's a choice between him and children you'd choose him"
That sounds like a 5% chance of you being happy with him long term, either because he doesn't want children ever, or because by the time he wants them you won't be able to have them.

OP I'm really happy for you that you're now officially engaged, that's a big step forward. And well done for having the talk and staying calm about it.

The important thing now is not to let things slip back into uncertainty again.

Personally the wedding would be less of an issue for me. If a big wedding is needed for his family, then that will take some time and planning, and you don't really have that luxury when it comes to having kids.

I would read the stats and make a decision yourself as to when you want to start to TTC. Then tell him. If he agrees, that's great. If not, then sadly you're back where you started and will have to have some heavy talks and evaluation of your situation again.

If he's finding this all a bit fast and stressful, it's tough. With each month that passes your fertility is declining. Sad but true. He's had his time of putting this off, now it's decision time.

Drunkenduck, that's what happened to you, and congratulations!

However, I went into early menopause at 35 and am well out the other side at 43!

There's no telling what could happen with the op. I had my dc at 29,31 and 32 and I'm very glad I did!

I had decided to come out of lurking to post my story and now I see you appear to be engaged I can still so with even more conviction that you are making a mistake.

Between the ages of 21-23 I was with someone who never wanted marriage and I am not sure he wanted kids. I told everyone I would rather live with him than not have him at all. I really pushed for engagement and marriage and had a ring that I knew I was getting and I don't even remember a proposal. I said a registry office in jeans would do me. Still didn't happen. I left him after he hit me, took him back and knew instantly I didn't even like him never mind all the rest.

Less than a month later I met my DH. We had exchanged many letters and spoke on the phone before deciding to meet. Both admitted later we were hoping it would lead to more than friends. We spent 12-10pm together. He asked me out. I asked him if he wanted to get married and have children, hastily adding it didn't have to be me but I didn't want another 2 years with someone who didn't want the same as me. He said he did. We were engaged 2 years 10 months after meeting, married 9 months later and out first child was born after we had been married less than 2 years. We have been together 18 years now with three kids and I know all along I was trying to convince myself and everyone else that I was happy just living with someone.

No idea what happened to my ex but I would put my life on him being unmarried and childless.

FWIW The day we got engaged DH said he wanted to set the date as didn't want a long engagement and we had picked the date by the time we told everyone the next day.

Be careful.

Even if your partner was planning on a fancy pants holiday to propose he was putting his own needs before yours and when you love someone that is surely the wrong way around. Especially when doing what YOU want is causing upset to the one you say you love.

There is more than ONE person for everyone in the world.

It's great that you had the big talk! But yes, you do need follow up. Are you actually engaged? He was planning on asking you on your holiday, but you hadn't even booked or planned it yet, so that could have meant a ways away.

What does meeting in the middle on TTC mean? Be sure to remind him that it's not like the baby parachutes in the next day, it can take months, there are 9 months of pregnancy, ie lots of adjustment time.

Why do you actually need this extension anyway? You say you have a house, I assume that means at least 2 bedrooms? You don't need anything more than that for ages, if ever.

It's great that he's ready to be engaged but you need to talk time. Entirely possible he was thinking of being engaged for a couple years.

He said he was acutely aware that he was holding me back and if he was completely averse to the idea he would have told me so a long time ago, it's just not something he envisaged doing right now, but he realises it's not fair on me to keep me in limbo. I think I've finally got through to him that he needs to compromise on timescale and he agreed that we need to meet in the middle about when to start TTC.

I'm afraid, OP, that neither of you get it. Still.

Your fertility decline is as much an issue for him as it is for you, all the more so now if you are engaged. He's not holding you back, he's holding himself back too. He sounds as though he is doing you a favour!

I don't want to piss on your parade, you've just got engaged. But in a sense you are in a worse position now than you were yesterday. You are intending to tie yourself to a man who is begrudging about TTC with his intended wife of 35. You are neither free to go elsewhere nor TTC.

What the hell is he playing at? You make out that he is a wonderful person, but his actions, as you describe, as so very, very self-obsessed and selfish. This is not the stuff of a man who loves his wife and wants to create a family with her. This is the behaviour of a man who has found a woman he loves, but on his terms, at his pace. This is NOT the basis for a succesful partnership.

You are still not TTC. No date for that, just 'meet in the middle', no wedding date (and that has to be on his terms, no eloping).

You are just as unmarried and in pregnant as yesterday.

How convenient, he had a ring in hiding.

How long is saving and an extension going to take? That and getting married? You're no closer to having children. It could be another 3-5 years.

Agree to meet in the middle?
okay. I am glad the chat when well, really happy he proposed (he did right?, so when are you getting married).
You are 35, there is no middle to think about.

Hi OP well done for making progress and congratulations for getting engaged last night.

Up until then this thread read like everyone and everything in his life was getting higher billing than you-

the family he is so close to he couldn't consider arranging a wedding with you this year due to the logistics of getting them together,
the friends getting married taking up all his leave so he could watch them marry rather than marry you
the children he is looking after in the day so he can't have them with you as he isn't sure he wants to be around them 24/7
the house that is too small without an extension so he has to save up rather than ttc etc etc

Where are you really in his list of priorities?

I would keep this momentum going you started last night and insist on him making you his priority. Frankly he just needs to grow up, and quickly.

I am pretty much a cautionary tale, and I very much doubt you would be as unlucky as me, but in the hope some good for someone else might come out of my experience, here goes:

I started TTC with DH on my 35th Birthday. I am now onto my 6th pregnancy, having lost the other five. If this one makes it I will be 39 when I give birth, 4.5 years after I started trying.

It is not just getting pregnant that gets much harder at 35, it is not miscarrying. I don't think this is publicised enough.

Because having even one miscarriage is pretty awfully shit. They can happen at any age but get much more likely to happen with every year at 35+ His indecision is actively increasing the risk of you going through this.

And what if you can't get pregnant? In order to qualify for IVF on the NHS in this country if you are under 40 you have to have been trying for 2 years with no luck according to the NICE guidelines.

So say you start trying right now, and unfortunately nothing happens, you will be 37 by the time you have been TTC for 2 years. Now say there is virtually no waiting list (which is highly unlikely) and you are helped immediately, you could be starting IVF at 37.

Leave it 6 more months now before you start TTC and you would be 38 years of age before starting IVF.

Here are the NHS IVF success rates taken from NHS CHOICES:

In 2010, the percentage of IVF treatments that resulted in a live birth (the success rate) was:

32.2% for women under 35

27.7% for women aged 35-37

20.8% for women aged 38-39

13.6% for women aged 40-42

So if you left it 12 months before starting ttc now, you would have a 20.8% chance according to these statistics, rather than a 27.7% if you started now.

It is one hell of a gamble to assume you have enough time to put of TTC at age 35. And frankly he is betting with your chips, not his own.

Yes you have time to wait providing you don't have any problems conceiving, and you don't have problems with miscarriage.

But you won't know this until you start trying, and if you leave it and then find out you might well run out of time.

I know all this sounds very doom and gloom but God how I wished someone had told me this stuff frankly when I was 30.

It might have saved us so much pain.

Frankly I would say stuff meeting him half way on the time lag to conceiving, the last three years have been your compromise. Start now.