What kind of relationship is this?

[annaomar]

I met my DH four years ago. He is Arabic, I am English. I do love him very much and he says he loves me but I think actions speak louder than words....... We married after about 6 months. We have never lived together - I see him, always at his home 2 or 3 times a week. Saturdays I sleep at his and maybe once a month during the week. He has always been more interested in his friends than in me - I assume this is an Arab man thing. He goes out to meet them to drink tea, play billiards, smoke shisha etc. he never tells me where he goes and he gets angry if I ask. I don't entirely trust him regarding other women - I don't have evidence, just a strong feeling which he laughs at. He stays up late and sleeps late so even on our days together we rarely go anywhere or do anything together. I often think he treats me with a sort of contempt but I also feel like I've lost perspective and don't know if I'm being over sensitive. I earn more than him and give him money - although what he does with it I don't know and he gets angry if I ask him. When we are together he is very loving - he gives me lots of hugs & kisses and he is very good at spotting if I've been upset by someone or had a bad day, so he's obviously paying attention somewhere along the line. At the same time though the relationship seems to be driven by what he wants. I spend lots of time thinking I should leave but I don't want to hurt him.

This is so sad. Whenever I have gone on mumsnet it is for a problem I could not see the answer for by myself. Mumsnet gives you objective opinions and the whole point is to make your own situation clearer. Then act with a clear conscience knowing it is the right thing to do.

I have been so helped by mumsnet, I have always acted on the majority advice as it often reinforces what you feel deep down but have not had the courage to acknowledge.

The overwhelming advice here is clear, if mumsnet could allow shouting out there would be posters here doing just that. Every red warning light is flashing. Yet you are still trying to protect him! Oh dear. You remind me of the op with a paedo boyfriend who came on to mumsnet to defend the fact she still wanted to stay with him despite his interest in her kids!! Because love conquers all right? Love makes it all ok right?

You have upset your family because you are blinded by the charm and sweetness of a con artist and you don't value yourself, you don't see or care that you are letting yourself down. You don't even care that your so called dh is using you!

You don't care that he is angry with you for no good reason. I am no longer surprised you are with him. Perhaps you are attracted by the way he treats you, macho/exotic/warzone victim/ gives you a buzz in your humdrum existence perhaps? The fact your employers all think he is a lovely man he really must be, mustn't he

What is it you don't like about your dp's partner? He probably knows what your so called husband gets up to behind your back and they are both laughing behind your back at your utter naivety and misplaced loyalty.

Carry on then op, what a wonderful dh you have and how lucky you are!

Hi anna I hope you are ok and get through your day.

Youo'e had a lot to take in so take your time to process it all and work out what you feel. Keep posting, you must feel all over the place at the realisation of where you've ended up with this person.

I have learnt to trust my parent's instincts. In particular my mother's, who was raised by an abusive mother. I think any serious candidate in future will have to be approved by her.

A couple of months ago I told him that I was going to go to the mosque to talk to the imam about whether I should expect more as a "Muslim" wife. He got very angry.
Red flag right there, because he doesn't want to be a proper muslim husband. He just wants sex from you and money. He keeps you going, just enough so you don't leave.

He may well have been through a lot, but it doesn't matter. Think about how he got out. People often have to deceive, get on other people's good sides, take family money or steal to get money for fake passports or to pay traffickers. People leaving may be good people, but others are not. And through his actions, he is showing not to be one of the good people.

Sometimes we have to give up something or someone we love because they are not good for us.

Anna, would you take the advice of a middle aged lady who's been married to a Muslim Arab for almost 40 years?

If so?

Then please believe everything about your situation that could be wrong, is wrong, and you seriously are not thinking straight.

OP, I know you're not a Muslim and I know your Nikah is not legally binding in the UK. But you went into this marriage with sincere intentions, to get married. So for your piece of mind, for your closure and knowing that YOU did the right thing, get a "proper" divorce. And by going to see an imam or even a counselor/adviser in an Islamic center maybe it will open your eyes as to how wrong the situation is that you're in. And by getting an imam to talk to your "DH", and getting him to properly divorce you the way he should Islamically, at least you have forced him to do ONE thing properly. He needs to be told what a mess he is making, no Muslim father would allow his daughter to marry such a person, and that is exactly why he married you. Because you don't know your rights, easy for him.

Please take this advice OP, you seem like a lovely, generous and caring person and you deserve a man who respects and honours you and treats you the way he should.

And to add something, for a Nikah to be valid, it must follow certain criteria. I would find out in your local masjid or Islamic center if your in fact was valid. Do you have the written contract? Was is verbal? Who were the witnesses? Go and talk to someone, maybe your marriage wasn't even a proper marriage to begin with. In that case you can just dump him. IF you are ready to do that.

Of course he's sweet and loveable sometimes. That's how he reels you in!

A couple of months ago I told him that I was going to go to the mosque to talk to the imam about whether I should expect more as a "Muslim" wife. He got very angry.

What did he say? What was his reason for being angry?

Anna - do you not see what is being done to you? Are you taking on board what is being said?? Especially by women who have been or are in marriages to Muslim men.

PLEASE listen to them!

anna
my heart goes out to you. I am afraid you are under the spell of a conman. Only you can break that spell. You are paying him to be your boyfriend, and that is all he will ever be for you.

If you are happy with that situation and the rest of your life is so full you don't want a full-time, fully-committed partnership/marriage, that's fine.

If you do want more, I suggest getting psychotherapy. As you have isolated yourself from your family to protect this man (and because family are not always the best people to turn to) I think you need a place where you can talk frankly about your reasons for staying with this man. It might help clarify whether you think you want to leave or not.

Your life sounds very difficult with this man, but only you know can discover (together with the therapist) whether you think this is as you as it gets.

All the best.

• whether you think this is as good as it gets.

All in all, Anna, the answer to your question What kind of relationship is this?, is

A very one-sided and abusive one.

Imagine someone else had written these points.

1. We are married
2. We don't live together and he has never visited my house.
3. I give him money.
4. He gets angry when I ask where he has been.

What would you tell that person?

The fact that you wanted to find out more about what you should expect as a wife in his culture shows that you take his faith seriously and you respect his culture. His anger at this move demonstrates that he does not take this culture seriously and is using the reputation of Islam as oppressive to women as an excuse to treat you badly. This is not moral. This is not Islamic.

OP please listen to what others are telling you. Your marriage is not legal. While you feel it is as good as legal from the faith point of view HE DOES NOT

He is using you. He does whatever he wants with no regard to your feelings. It doesn't matter how sweet he can be, he is abusing you.

Leave. Now.

This has been so difficult for me. I keep reading through what I've written wondering if I have exaggerated the situation in such a way that it's made everyone think un-necessarily badly of h. But what I have said is true.

I don't think I can carry on in this relationship. I don't think things will ever change because I don't think he thinks there is anything wrong that is his fault. He is very good at shouting me down if I challenge him about anything, so much so that I don't even bother to challenge anything any more. I don't think that he will ever change his lifestyle so that we share what I would think is a proper relationship. Many times he's told me that I broke his life ( yes, I know...) so I think he won't want it broken anymore by having to take proper responsibilities. And I don't entirely trust him to tell me the truth about himself, where he goes, what he does. A few times he's tripped himself up with things. I guess if we both worked hard the trust would come back, but again I don't think he thinks he does anything wrong to have to work hard about.

I'm just so, so sad. He has so many nice qualities, he could have been such a good man. I fell for the nice part of him - the man who makes me laugh, the man who has such quirky, independent ideas, the man who gave me a surprise Christmas tree and even tried cooking sprouts on Christmas Day. I would be so happy to share everything I had with him.

That's the thing about abusive men, they often give you just enough charm to keep you hanging on, it makes it harder to disengage from them and I'm sorry OP, but he is abusive.

I'm Muslim, married to a Muslim Arab man, he is not treating you properly, this is not a proper marriage. Btw Palestinians in particular are known for having very large families, so the life he's foisted on you is not the norm.

If you do want to discuss this with a mosque (nd that's an if, as I don't think he's done the nikah properly anyway, so I'm not sure it's particularly bindingy), be careful which mosque you go to, as mosques can vary hugely. If you post on the Muslim Tearoom here, one of the poster may be able to put you in touch with someone.

op
he is giving you the crumbs of his life. the odd good bits cannot make up for the living like separate people can it? he is using you. totally. of course he has redeeming qualities - everyone does. but this is not a marriage of anything more than convenience.

its not a marriage. its not even a relationship. its certainly not a partnership.
is this what you want?
move on.

anna can I ask you to tell us why/how you came to enter into this marriage so soon, and how/why he justified not needing to make it legally binding?

Annoma.
Taking everything else out of the equation. Just stop giving him money! Really not another penny. I think you know what his reaction will be and sadly I doubt that it will be either nice or charming. Either way you will know his true motivation. Quite possibly you do already but cannot tear yourself away from the small amounts of care and attention he doles out as and when it suits him.
Please please keep your money for yourself and to yourself.

He maybe charming and nice but it is not consistent and he is flawed.

He may be damaged by his past experiences however that does not give him the right to damage or take advantage of others i.e. you; which he is, both financially and emotionally.

I have known couples who are in long term happy marriages who do not live together. However one toothbrush does not a marriage make.

Im very glad GoshAnneGorilla has advised caution when approaching someone in a Mosque to talk this through due to how they can differ in their approach to things.

Ive had a few fears bouncing around inside my head from yesterday.

he could have been such a good man

I think you summed it up there. He was mainly your construct. You have to look at the man he actually is, not the man you hoped he would be.

What abput if we're all wrong?

Wrong about what ?

You have the facts.

Well I advised it first, Caitlyn for the same reasons, but I suppose as I am not Muslim my advice doesn't count?!

What if we are all wrong about ^what exactly anna?*

Do you mean what if he is not a conman or a chancer or a selfish, controlling misogynist? What if he's just a damaged, vulnerable, sensitive devout Muslim man who loves you very much but cannot bring himself to live full time with you?

Well there are two easy ways to find out, as I said before.

1. Tell him you'd like to book your wedding to make it legal.

2. Tell him you won't be giving him any more money.

Anna, yes it is sad and I am sorry for your heartache.

Nevertheless, you know what you need to do now. It is a bit like having a much loved, but very sick pet. You know the kindest and best thing for that pet is for it to be pts, but it saddens you and breaks your heart to do it.

Your marriage has come to the end of its life, whether it ever really had a life or not, and it is heartbreaking.

Be strong, my lovely.

What if we are right?
With which option do you stand to lose the most?

Stay with him, lose financially and get the scrapings of affection he gives you. Lose your self-esteem slowly.
Loose him, keep your money and be emotionally available for a man who loves you and deserves you. And regain your self-esteem.

And whatever you do, don't marry him.

Is he gay & you're a convenient "beard," cash & passport provider? He may genuinely like you, that's not the issue. But really ...? You know there's something wrong here, otherwise you wouldn't have posted.