anger management for dh? any exp? does it work?

[anonforabit]

Will try to keep short, dh and I married 17 years, dd 14, ds12. DH has always had a short fuse, certain things, some predictable some not, will send him into a rage shouting and ranting often irrationally. I have learnt the best way to deal with it is to go v quiet, not argue and keep out of his way till he calms down, kids have also learnt this, dh's father very similar. He has never been violent or physically threatened me or kids, but he can be scary when he is ranting, as will slam doors etc. Recently I have started to notice the kids behaviour is affected when he goes into one, dd very much tries to make the peace, kind of sucks up to him iykwim trying to making him happy again, ds occasionally joins in with this but usually goes quiet like me. I feel ashamed when I realise how much this affects them and want to make it right. In all other ways he is a great dad/dh, and I cant imagine life without him, but I know this has to change if we have a future. Last night after a trivial thing set him off ranting at dd, he accused me of deliberately winding him up etc and I decided enough. I want to suggest something positive as if I say Ive had enough he'll kick off and start talking divorce as he knows I don't want this (crappy unstable childhood etc) for me or dc. So has anyone got any experience of anger management working (or not) and how do you go about starting this process, assuming I can convince him to do it. TIA

That's true, dahlen. I have sometimes struggled with how much I blame my mum for putting me through the childhood I had. But then I concur with what Attila always says...she had a choice, I did not. And still she chooses him by minimising and glossing over the past.

Yeah I guess there is

Look, I suspect that when the DC's world is turned upside down, it will be for the better.
They are already walking on eggshells. I bet they will flourish.

In this case, turning it upside down is a good thing.

And he may well be shocked at the moment, and thrown a bit back by your reaction. Use it to your advantage. Particularly if there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel for him. You can decide later.

You can explain to the children later once you have decided what to do.

In any case, they may well prefer a nice, safe and relaxed house than a trip to Florida.

PS - I don't usually go on the Stately Homes thread, but we've probably crossed paths around Relationships. :)

Sorry Lweji, just remembered your name from somewhere

"I'm also concerned about him seeing them in the future on his ow, access etc"

You are getting well ahead of yourself here. One step at a time; I doubt very much that your H would be at all reasonable about anything in relation to a separation and I sincerely would hope you would never do mediation with such a person. Such abusive men also do not let go of their chosen victims easily.

I do think your relationship with your children if you were to stay with this person would be completely ruined because they will see you as weak and will think too that you put him before them when they were children. They will end up despising the two of you, you as their mother for ruining their respective childhoods.

If you do go to FL at Easter I would take his name off the booking as of now.

OP You don't have to decide anything on the back of this thread. You don't have to justify anything to us. We will all get on with our lives when this thread dies and you will be having to make these decisions on your own.

Have you anyone in RL to confide in ? Tell the truth not the sanitised version you usually present. Make a call to Women's Aid and see their take on it ? Book some counselling on your own account to work out why you are currently under the impression it is better to stay in such a damaging situation than to go.

Don't waste money on "Anger Management".

I know this is pathetic but I don't work, his money paid for the holiday I couldn't go with the kids when he'd paid wouldn't feel right, don't think I'd trust him alone with them for 2 weeks either

You have a choice re this man, your children do not.

No-one stepped up to the plate and protected you from your awful childhood, shame on them. Going forward to now though, you really do have the power to change things for the better for both you and your children who should be and are your most precious resource. You just have to believe it.

Sincere thanks for all your support and time today everyone x

the money he earns is family money. The holiday was meant to be a family holiday.

Where has this SAHM guilt come from ? Has he put it there ?

Hi anonforabit,

re your comment:-

"I know this is pathetic but I don't work, his money paid for the holiday I couldn't go with the kids when he'd paid wouldn't feel right, don't think I'd trust him alone with them for 2 weeks either"

Have you considered cancelling it?.

Would any of you want to go on holiday to FL given his behaviours towards you anyway?. He will just be abusive towards you all in another time zone.

Why would your children be alone with him for two weeks as well?. If anyone does not go to FL it should be him rather than you, I would not be wanting to subject the children to any more of his emotional manipulation.

That is quite worrying that you wouldn't be able to trust him with his own teenage DC for 2 weeks on holiday anon
I think I might feel that if he can't take them then I would. I don't feel it has to make a huge difference who paid for the holiday. He has counted himself out through his behaviour?

And yes you may not work in an office or such like but you do work by running a household and raising these children.

Op to be realistic, I don't think this thread or the events that inspired it, are going to cause you to make any major life decisions in the immediate future.

What I do hope for, is that you start seriously re-thinking your current relationship dynamic and what it truly signifies for you and the kids long term, and in doing so, knowing that whatever happens, it simply cannot continue as it is.

If you take nothing away from this than a renewed sense of self respect and fight for what you know to be right, then I for one will be delighted.

No more putting up and shutting up for you ok?

Love to you...and all the best of luck xxx

OP, you have to split up with him. You need to make sure he knows you're serious.

At the risk of getting flamed for this, I'm going to admit I was (am?) exactly like your husband. I just did not see it, well I did but I glossed over it, thought it wasn't that bad and yeh I was a bit of a dick but ok really. I never hit anyone, but I'd fly off the handle, slam doors and generally be scary. I'd get into moods for days...aweful really.

Eventually my gf left, with the three kids. We split up, properly, for four months. Not just a 'break' but a proper split. Neither of us thought we'd ever get back together, but towards the end of last year I decided to e-mail her and ask for another go at it (I hadn't asked for this at all when she left).

She came round and talked to me. She explained it to me, told me just how I was and suddenly I saw it. I was horrible to her and it sickened me. Now, we've been back together for almost two months and I see the relationship completely different, almost as if I'm seeing her as a person once again. I'm not saying I'm perfect now, far from it. But in everything I do or say to her I ask myself if it's the right thing to do (oh and what would anyfucker say about it! Joking aside, this forum has massivly helped re-enforce what my gf said and hearing the 'other side' from so many women like yourself on here just makes me more determined not to be one of the men they describe.). Time will tell if I really have turned a corner.....

The thing I'm trying to say is that I don't think he'll change unsless you split up with him. He needs to have that revelation of 'oh fuck, I was a proper proper cunt to you' and he won't get that if you're together and keeping on with the happy famillies, he just won't be able to see it.

As for what to tell the children, at their age I'd be pretty straight with them and say "Dad needs to move out because his moods and anger are causing us all a lot of stress and I don't think it's fair on you or me. Absolutely none of it is your fault. We both love you and think you're great, it's just that Dad struggles to keep his temper under control and it's got to to the point where I feel how he treats us is wrong. This is his problem and it's up to him to deal with it." tThen ask if they have any questions. I think it might, in time, be wise to point out the ways in which they tried to deal with their dad and explain that these ways are not healthy and that they shouldn't ever put up with being shouted at, by anyone. Point out that you know that you gave them impression that they needed to stay quiet/appease him but that was wrong and you're sorry. The only way to deal with it is to ask the person to leave or to walk away and consider ending the relationship.

aw11 I am going to make you a wristband to ping when you feel a nasty retort coming on, inscribed with "WWAFS"

Aw11 - I hope you don't mind me asking, but have you had/are you having therapy, counselling or similar or have you managed to change your behaviour on your own? Ignore if it's too intrusive of course.

OP, have you considered counselling for yourself? For support to help you stand up to him and separate, and for support afterwards when he may become even more nasty. FWIW I agree with the other posters that even though it will be a big change for your dc if your husband moves out, it is MUCH better for them in the long run not to be living in an atmosphere of intimidation and emotional abuse. And his behaviour to you is absolutely domestic violence - it's much more to do with control and intimidation than whether he hits you or not.

At the risk of speaking on Aw11's behalf, I think the significant part of his story is not how he learned to control his anger so much as that he finally was handed the motivation by being kicked out. Whether he changed through therapy, self-help books, counselling, a WWAFS wristband, a visitation from the Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come or simple self-restraint is almost unimportant. Without personal motivation, nothing would have made any difference.

OP, he really needs to move out while you consider your options. It may be that he could change after a long period of therapy (not anger management, that's not appropriate here) but the children need to be protected from him while he does that. And if he doesn't change, then it must be game over. They deserve better. I know you are scarred by your childhood but to an extent this one is as damaging for your children as yours was to you. Divorce doesn't damage children, the way parents handle divorce can, but the fact of divorce isn't damaging per se. Living with an aggressive, controlling bully is damaging.

Hello, thanks for your replies. It feels like Monday morning was a very long time ago but will try to update you as briefly as possible. Monday he came home very withdrawn barely spoke to kids etc, dd asked me if it was because of her and the argument on Sunday (which wasn't her fault but was sparked by something trivial she did) I explained that it was nothing to do with her but that I was unhappy with dh because of his behaviour. I was going to get dh to leave after they'd gone to bed but was really concerned if I had done that dd would blame herself so we talked some more later, he had booked a GP appointment but asked me to go with him as he didn't really know what to tell dr!! I told him he should look for somewhere else to live to go at the weekend. He was shocked but went to bed. He came home mid morning yesterday, said he'd been up half the night researching stuff on web and was devastated to realise his behaviour on the nhs website fitted perfectly with an emotional abuser. I know you guys have no sympathy for him and I get that, but he was sobbing and begged forgiveness, he has promised to get help and also promised that if he cannot be 'fixed' he will leave without hesitation. Despite everything I didn't crumble, remained emotionless mostly with him. He has now from the nhs website booked an appt on Monday with a phsychoanalyst, he has spoken to her and she apparently does family therapy etc so if it goes ok on Monday I am hopeful she could see me and the kids too or if that's not appropriate refer us to someone else. I am not forcing the issue of him leaving until after he has seen her and the GP as would like their opinions first and still feel kind of shocked, whilst washing and cooking still need doing it feels like I am a stranger in my own life, maybe that's normal. I am not kidding myself that everything will be fine, believe me I am preparing for a divorce in the long-run but I do feel it's worth one try to save the marriage , I know you will think I'm being weak tho. Either way divorce or not we are on a path to getting help for all of us which feels like a glimmer of positivity so am clinging to that. Thanks again for your advice.

Then maybe he has the motivation. Let's hope so. You are not weak however, please remember how crushed and frightened he has made you & the rest of the family feel for years and years. Watch out for crocodile tears and grand gesture apologies... they are a big part of the emotional abuser's standard tool-kit so keep your guard well and truly up and keep preparing for that separation.

anon - No, I haven't had any counselling or anything like that. I'm a class A neurotic and it would probably do me some good to have someone to talk to about things though. I don't want to burden my gf with my issues. Like I say, it still seems like early days, but yes my behavior has changed because I can see what I was like now. Maybe counselling helps some people see this?

Cogito, no it's not the fact that my gf left me so much that made me change, I still didn't see it then. The real revelation came when I spoke to her about my behavior after so much time and space away from that situation (if you see what I mean!). Like Eirikur says above 'Living with an aggressive, controlling bully is damaging.' I never knew I was one, but I do now and I never want my kids and my gf to live with that man again.

I will wait for him to actually leave without hesitation because I daresay he will not at all like what the counsellor says to him either. He will either tell her to shove it or equally likely manipulate the counsellor for his own purposes by telling her its all your fault he is like this. I cannot see him continuing sessions long term; people like your H needs YEARS of therapy rather than say six sessions and such men also do not fundamentally change.

He will not let go of you easily however, all that he has done is still him playing out the emotional abuser role to perfection. His tears were also manipulative and he is still using your own shite childhood against you (this is perhaps also why you still think there is a chance albeit slim to fix things). The sad thing here is that even after all the abuse he has meted out to both you and the children, he is still there within the home.

He is and remains a master of bs. A bullying master of bs at that.