anger management for dh? any exp? does it work?

[anonforabit]

Will try to keep short, dh and I married 17 years, dd 14, ds12. DH has always had a short fuse, certain things, some predictable some not, will send him into a rage shouting and ranting often irrationally. I have learnt the best way to deal with it is to go v quiet, not argue and keep out of his way till he calms down, kids have also learnt this, dh's father very similar. He has never been violent or physically threatened me or kids, but he can be scary when he is ranting, as will slam doors etc. Recently I have started to notice the kids behaviour is affected when he goes into one, dd very much tries to make the peace, kind of sucks up to him iykwim trying to making him happy again, ds occasionally joins in with this but usually goes quiet like me. I feel ashamed when I realise how much this affects them and want to make it right. In all other ways he is a great dad/dh, and I cant imagine life without him, but I know this has to change if we have a future. Last night after a trivial thing set him off ranting at dd, he accused me of deliberately winding him up etc and I decided enough. I want to suggest something positive as if I say Ive had enough he'll kick off and start talking divorce as he knows I don't want this (crappy unstable childhood etc) for me or dc. So has anyone got any experience of anger management working (or not) and how do you go about starting this process, assuming I can convince him to do it. TIA

I have trained & worked in the counselling field in the past. Anger management can be very effective - but it only works when there is a genuine anger management issue, and from what you say, your H doesn't have those issues.

When somebody genuinely cannot manage their anger, AM techniques can help. An example would be somebody who regularly loses their temper and gets themselves into trouble as a result - ie by losing it at work; with people in positions of authority, etc.

But a man who is perfectly capable of behaving reasonably around everybody apart from in his own home doesn't have AM issues - his actions are those of an abuser.

So sorry OP, but it sounds as if you have been putting up with this for so long that you now see it as 'your' problem to solve. But you never will be able to change the way your H behaves - he can, if he really wants to. But it doesn't even sound as if he does from what you've said.

I'm sorry OP - I now see the situation has moved on since your first post...

Sorry the bossy, forthright bit was meant to be lighthearted, see how great I am at glossing over the shit? No offence intended honestly! I know you all mean well and are right particularly with regard to effects on dc. It's all overwhelming tbh

Op, if you do go ahead with am, can you please come back let us know how you got on.

Genuinely - thank you all!

I think he needs to leave, and you need to see evidence of some concerted efforts at him changing before you even consider him coming back. And no "but I'm doing this for you" matyrdom but an acknowledgement from him that his behaviour has been unacceptable, that he is damaging his children and that he is serious about taking responsibility for improving the situation.

In the meantime I would assume that it was unlikely this meaningful change would happen and would use the 'trial separation' as exactly that - practice for a permanent separation.

Sorry OP, I doubt that's what you wanted to hear.

Beautyfades - not me who needs it! But if he does, yes I will, good luck to you too x

It may be overwhelming but no obstacle to leave is actually insurmountable.

You simply cannot go on as you are; your children are also being profoundly affected by their Dad's ongoing abuse of you and by turn them.

He has to go and be gone permanently from your day to day lives; this is no life for your and your children. Divorce is a way forward for you personally.

You're being amazing anonforabit. It's a lot to take on board and act on decisively, yet that's exactly what you're doing. You'll be fine long term, but please carry on posting every time you experience doubts or find yourself being 'persuaded' by H to take a viewpoint that doesn't quite feel right. Don't forget he's had a lot more practice at being manipulative than you've had standing up to it.

To come back to your OP. IME, no. Anger management only seems to work with people whose anger is indiscriminately causing problems in their lives - socially and with colleagues, as well as with family. Those who function perfectly well in those other environments and reserve their anger for their family don't have an anger problem; they have a sense of entitlement that they can act out at home regardless of how it affects their family. No amount of anger management helps these types because what they need to do is accept the fact that their family have the right to be free from such outbursts, and that has nothing to do with a loss of temper.

What is age appropriate for a 12 & 14 year old to be told, btw? Where would I find this info do you think?

I know OP. I really do.
I'm not trying to ramraid you...but I can only type it as I would say it, and on a forum posts have to be concise.

I can see how it gets to be a habit to brush off serious issues with a light hearted gloss. The thing is, while you think you are presenting a front of Happy Family Life, it is an illusion.

When I was growing up the neighbours, friends and other family members knew it was all a fantasy. We were the laughing stock on our street as having the dad who lost the plot and was a nasty piece of work to his wife and kids.

You think no-one knows ? Think again.

OP, what is it you are looking for wrt to your kids ? Why do you keep asking about what to tell them before you have even decided what your next course of action is ?

A way to explain their father's behaviour that allows you to all still live together ?

Anon My H does this type of behaviour daily. I told him repeatedly that he needed to stop. He'd say "do you want me to leave then?" very much like a challenge. I finally told him "yes" and he left. He then of course did the "I'll do whatever it takes to get our family back together." I said ok, but I won't consider getting back together unless you go to counselling long term. Of course, of course, he says. Then it's "well, I don't have the money for counselling." There are counselling charities that will charge you little to no money and prioritising counselling over your booze might be helpful too. "Oh, well I don't have time for counselling." You're only working part time, you have plenty of time.

Almost a year later, no counselling. At. All. No attempt at it. He still insists it's too much money and he doesn't have time.

He tried to pass it off as "depression" and "anger management problem" and then fell back on "you were nagging, the kids wind me up, I'm tired, I'm stressed, I'm hungry, I'm ill...." Honestly I was waiting for "the day ends in Y, I'm breathing....." Excuses excuses.

He insists he is not abusive, that it's depression and anger management issues. However, he doesn't go off at ANYONE else. Just us. At home. And in private (like inside the car).

He is now STBXH. (and still being a prat, but that's a whole other issue)

He also uses your fear of instability from your own childhood, and the threat of divorce as leverage in keeping you down, and behaving like he damn well pleases.
He thinks that because of your reluctance to divorce, he can get away with bullying you. He throws his weight around, knowing that he can shut you up by threatening you.

Stop giving him that tool. Divorce is waaaaaay better than staying in a miserable marriage and having your children model their own lives on it as a result.
What you're offering isn't actually stability, but lessons in how to dish out, and accept abuse.

So long as he thinks you value 'stability' over your self respect, he will keep on using it against you. x

No any, I'm pretty resigned to the fact it's over already, it's just that turning their worlds upside down (even if their current world isn't that fab) isn't something I know how to do, since I'm sure that they are used to this life I'm pretty sure they're going to hate me ruining it and whilst I feel strong enough to stand up to dh I'm not sure I could cope with them hating me on top of it all

Your kids know what he's like. My primary school DCs understood that Daddy couldn't stop being cross so he had to live somewhere else because when you live with someone you're supposed to be kind (that's my 7yo's take on it). It's basic, but there it is.

At 12 and 14yo they are certainly old enough to understand that this is inappropriate behaviour and that because he continued that behaviour, he had to leave. That teaches them that when they are adults, they do not need to tolerate that type of behaviour from partners either. It's a much better life lesson than "when someone treats you like shit in your home, it's your responsibility to try to fix it and tiptoe around them in case you piss them off."

I'm also concerned about him seeing them in the future on his ow, access etc

The car is one of the worst places that my DH gets angry at me Alice.
He does get somewhat angry at other road users too, but I don't know what he's like when I'm not there.
I have occasionally seen him get angry at other people, but not really for some time. He's much worse with me than with anyone else.

My DCs don't hate me. Within days, you could see a difference in them. They were less quiet (okay, THAT may have its downside ), more confident speaking their opinion, less nervous. And they understand that Daddy doesn't live with us and that's okay.

Holiday to Florida booked in 6 weeks, I don't care, but dc will

I haven't met many abused women whose children aren't glad their mothers left. Sometimes there has been anger initially because the children have learned that mum is the family scapegoat and it's too risky to blame dad. This normally passes in time.

I've met many more women who no longer have relationships with their children because they chose to stay. It's not fair, but many adult children seem to blame those who failed to protect them far more than they blame the person actively carrying out the abuse.

Well I guess the DC can still go to Florida it's just a question of who goes with them?

There is always a holiday, a birthday, an anniversary, a festive season coming up "in the next few weeks"

AF is right. there will always be something