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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband has scared me - is this to do with drink withdrawal?

117 replies

NickNameChangedForThis · 22/02/2014 22:54

Husband and I have been together 10years, two dc.

Very recently he acknowledged and sought help for his drinking. The GP has said he wasn't an alcoholic but was a problem drinker. He advised him to not drink 3 days a week, and moderately drink the rest of the days (within the units allowed).

This worried me as I felt that a) he wasn't entirely honest with the GP as to how much a problem drink was becoming and b) it would become a case of him thinking he could drink as much as he wanted in those days.

Anyway, today he had 2-3 glasses of wine with his dinner. The first drink he had in a week. And he has become a nasty nasty person.

He started a row with me, said some very vicious things.

It started because I asked him if he could sit with me for an hour tonight instead of playing on his computer. He's either out drinking with friends or his head is turned away from us (me and the children) playing on his PC games. I asked for one hour together tonight.

He flipped and we had a tremendous row. He was so seething at one point I thought he was going to hit me. He did but he was spitting at me (not deliberately) but he was shaking with anger and raised his hands to me. I literally have run away upstairs.

He bought things up I had no idea he felt that way about - we never see his friends (he only has drinking buddies, we have a baby and toddler) plus he never arranges anything anyway. He's angry at me because 2 years ago I didn't show I was having enough fun at his friend wedding. I was feeling ill, I was 22 weeks pregnant at the time and they had a drinks reception that last 5 hours, where only drink was served and no food not even canapés until dinner, so I was standing - there was no seating - for 5 hours drinking orange juice. Eventually I felt faint and almost collapsed and someone bought me some bread to tide me over until dinner was served. I was anaemic during both pregnancies.

Another time he's angry at me about which came out tonight was a time we went to his friends out for a BBQ. I was 8 months pregnant at the time (and dc2 was very big - 99th centile). It was the hottest day of the year, last summer remember the heat wave? And his friends had no shade in their garden so we were out int he direct sunlight for a few hours. I was running around looking after toddler whilst heavily pregnant stood in the direct sunlight for 4 hours, again felt miserable. I was polite but was feeling irritable and not great. I was also working FT up until 8.5 months, so I barely got any rest as it was.

Sorry I'm rambling, anyway, all this has come out tonight and I have no idea where it has all come from?

Could it be a drink withdrawal thing? Was it because he drank for the first time today in a week? Is it me? Was I wrong for asking him to spend an hour with me this evening?

Please I am genuinely shocked as to what happened and why this has happend.

Thank you for reading my rambling.

OP posts:
arthriticfingers · 23/02/2014 12:57

I suffered from anxiety issues after dc2 was born
And you never thought to connect your 'issues' with your h's behaviour?
bear :(

Thumbwitch · 23/02/2014 13:02

I wouldn't say you need to move immediately to divorce, unless you want to!
But separation until he sorts himself out would be a definite plus, especially for your DC. So he moves out, he sorts himself out (and it will take 6m+, minimum)

It's the ONLY help you can offer him. Protecting him from any fall out of his alcoholism is not helping him. Letting him reach his own rock bottom and him realising that the only way out is to stop drinking is the best help you can give.

Was your anxiety a risk to your DC? Did you smash their toys and make life edgy for them? Did you lose your temper and threaten your H? if none of the above, then the two situations are not comparable.

NickNameChangedForThis · 23/02/2014 13:02

I want to thank all for your time and for sharing your stories. You've all given me great support and advice and I very much appreciate it. I think I need to go away and think about what needs to happen. The children and I are going to stay at my best friends (their godmother) house for 2-3 nights to clear my head and get so e perspective.

I don't know what I'm going to do but I want to thank you all again for being there for someone who needed support.

I'm going to nc back now.

OP posts:
Thumbwitch · 23/02/2014 13:04

And listen to bear - that's awful what happened to you, bear :(

Thetallesttower · 23/02/2014 13:06

Hope you have a good time away, this sounds very stressful.

Everyone has given you great advice, the GP is very ignorant of drinking issues, people can go to an early grave through binge-drinking and even go weeks and months inbetween, as others have said AA is for anyone with a drink issue, there's no minimum drinking requirement. It is for people who are ruining their lives and relationships with drink and sadly I think he qualifies on that score.

Point him in the right direction for help, leave out the numbers and walk away. You cannot make him better, be supportive but also your number one priority is now to protect the children from his drinking and erratic behaviour, which you are doing admirably. Good luck.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 23/02/2014 13:06

nick - well done for taking such decisive action.

Please don't feel you can't come back to this thread when you need to. Even if you don't take all the advice right away

anothernumberone · 23/02/2014 13:07

It sounds like he is getting close to rock bottom which is where he needs to be to make the changes required. You need to walk the line of not enabling and getting him support. The support cannot come from you because that will quickly translate to enabling. You need to get yourself to a family support group. Nobody can say what will happen but you both need to make changes to change the current situation you are in. You need to put yourself and your children first and he needs to deal with himself.

arthriticfingers · 23/02/2014 13:07

Wishing you and the children well.
Maybe start reaching out for help for you and the DCs in RL, now.

anothernumberone · 23/02/2014 13:08

X post well done OP that sounds like a very good plan

Squeegle · 23/02/2014 13:10

Attila as ever speaks sense. And I say that as someone who was with an alcoholic for more than ten years and who had 2DCs with him.

The problem for people like us is that we negate our own feelings to try and make someone else feel better. Even if they upset us and are disrespectful to us, we take it cos we feel that they're in pain and they need us to support them.

This enables their bad behaviour- it actually does more harm than good. Whether divorce is the only solution or not is not really the question. The question is when is he going to start being respectful, kind and caring towards you. Just like you are to him.

I guess the fact you had an alcoholic parent is very relevant here. We accept patterns that others wouldn't, and we put down our own feelings as unreasonable.

I too urge you to al anon. It's up to him whether he goes to AA- you can't change him you can only change you.

The other thing I found very helpful was a website called sober recovery. It has a forum for friends and family of alcoholics. It gave me strength when I doubted mysrlf( helped me to detach with love. That sounds a bit cheesey, but it really is possible. My life is so much better now.

Good luck OP, you and your children really don't need this bad behaviour.

Thumbwitch · 23/02/2014 13:19

Xposted with you last time - I am glad you are getting away for a bit, hope that it really does help you clear your head and get some perspective. I hope also that you will come back if/when you need more support and help, as there is always someone here to help/listen.

Good luck, really hope things work out for you.

colditz · 23/02/2014 13:19

Your poor kids :( why am I not surprised to learn your father was an alcoholic?

You've got inappropriate boundaries re acceptable behaviour in front of children, probably because you were brought up by an a,coholic who behaved badly in front of you when you were a child.

Please don't make your children live in a house where someone screams at and abuses their mother and smashes their possessions. They must be so very frightened.

summermovedon · 23/02/2014 13:22

From my experience, not only can a drinker not be honest with their medical professional about the extent of their drinking, but they also hear what they want to and make up things that suddenly become the professional advice (that never was).

AttilaTheMeerkat · 23/02/2014 13:30

I asked you whether you had grown up with alcoholism and infact you had. I was not totally surprised to read that your own dad was himself alcoholic so you yourself had an alcoholic parent. You learnt from both your parents examples and found an alcoholic for a man yourself, we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents and you were taught this crap role model. Your mother also taught you how to be a codependent because she played that role amongst others (enabler and provoker just as you are doing so now) with your Dad. Were you also taught by her too that you had to stand by your man?. Rubbish!!.

I would also think that your H's behaviour is the root cause too of your anxiety issues.

Your dad is still an alcoholic all those years later. He should not drink alcohol even today.

Now history repeats itself but this time its you being affected again along with your children who have frankly seen and heard far too much already in their young lives.

You cannot support him in this, he has to want to seek help for his own self and currently he does not. He may never do so, even when they lose everything some alcoholics still choose to drink. Any attempts by you to help him are doomed to failure and he will use you as an excuse to further hate you and drink again.

The 3cs of alcoholism:-
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

You can only help yourself and your children and I would be asking him to leave the marital home as of now. Staying within this is no longer an option for you because you then run the risk of putting him before them and yourself.

chickenwing · 23/02/2014 13:32

OP you can save your marriage and your DH is not a cruel man because if his behavior. He has an illness, he is alcoholic, he is not a bad person, but a sick person.

BUT, nothing will change until he contacts AA. He will no longer feel alone, 2 Long time sober people will come to your house and share their experience with him. He needs AA meetings every day and complete abstinence from alcohol.

I'm 29 and have been sober for 1 year and 2 months all because of AA. I have done all of the horrible things your husband has done, and worse. But I'm not a bad person, I was extremely sick.

He has hit rock bottom and wants help which is excellent! We don't change until we hit bottom. Get away for your few days but please don't leave without giving him the number for AA.

You should also call Al-anon, they will be very good for you. Just google them and you'll get the number.

AA is the only thing that works for alcoholics, and from what you describe about things your husband is talking about and feeling, he is definitely alcoholic.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 23/02/2014 13:36

I would urge you to read the following as well. How many times has this already been acted out in your house and life?.

The Merry-Go-Round of DENIAL

Alcoholism is a tragic three act play in which there is at least two characters, the drinker and his family; friends; co-workers and even healthcare workers may have a part in keeping the Merry-Go-Round turning.

ACT ONE

The play opens with the alcoholic stating that no one can tell him/her what to do. This makes it very difficult for the family to talk about drinking and its results. Even when the drinking is obviously causing serious problems, he/she simply will not discuss it. Talking is like a one-way street.

The key word in alcoholism is Denial, for again and again people do what they say they will not or deny what they have done.

As the alcoholic drinks more and more, the helpers deny the problem and increase the alcoholic’s dependency.

In act one, the alcoholic kills all his/her pain and woes by getting drunk.

ACT TWO

In act two, the alcoholic does nothing but wait for and expect others to do for them. Distinct characters begin to evolve from his/her helpers. A person can play more than one character and usually does.

The Enabler

The Enabler is a helpful type, trying to rescue his friend from their predicament. The Enabler wants to save the alcoholic from the immediate crisis and relieve them of the unbearable tension created by the situation.

In reality, this person is meeting a need of their own, rather than that of the alcoholic, although the Enabler does not realize this themselves.

The Enabler denies the alcoholic the process of learning by correcting and taking responsibility for his/her own mistakes.

The Enabler may eventually insist they will never again rescue the alcoholic. They always have and the alcoholic believes they always will.

The Victim

This may be the boss, the employer, the foreman or supervisor. The Victim is the person who is responsible for getting the work done, if the alcoholic is absent due to drinking or is half on and half off the job due to a hangover.

The alcoholic becomes completely dependent on this repeated protection and cover-up by the Victim; otherwise he/his could not continue drinking in this fashion. If the Victim stops helping, the alcoholic will be compelled to give up drinking or give up the job.

It is the Victim who enables the alcoholic to continue his irresponsible drinking without losing his/her job.

The Provoker

This is usually the wife or mother and is a key person in the play.

She is a veteran at this role and has played it much longer than others. She is the Provoker. She is hurt and upset by repeated drinking episodes; but she holds the family together despite all the trouble caused by drinking.

In turn, she feeds back in the relationship her bitterness, resentment, fear and hurt, and so becomes the source of provocation.

She controls, she tries to force the changes she wants; she sacrifices, adjusts, never gives up, never gives in, but never forgets.

The attitude of the alcoholic is that his/her failure should be acceptable, but she must never fail the alcoholic! He/she acts with complete independence and insists he/she will do as they please.

This character might also be called the Adjuster. She is constantly adjusting to the crises and trouble caused by drinking.

Act two is now played out in full. Everything is done for the alcoholic and not by them. The results, effects and problems caused by drinking, have been removed by others. The painful results of the drinking were suffered by persons other than the drinker. This permits him/her to continue drinking as a way to solve his/her problems.

ACT THREE

Act three begins much like act one. The need to deny dependence is now greater for the alcoholic and must be expressed almost at once, and even more emphatically. The alcoholic denies he/she has a drinking problem, denies he/she is an alcoholic, denies that alcohol is causing him/her trouble. The alcoholic refuses to acknowledge that anyone helped them – more denial. He/she denies that they may lose their job and insists that he/she is the best or most skilled person at his/her job. Above all, the alcoholic denies he/she has caused his/her family any trouble. In fact, the alcoholic blames the family, especially the spouse/parent, for all the fuss, nagging and problems.

Some alcoholics achieve the same denial by a stony silence, refusing to discuss anything related to their drinking. The memory is too painful.

The real problem is that the alcoholic is well aware of the truth which he/she so strongly denies. He/she is aware of the drunkenness and the failure. His/her guilt and remorse have become unbearable and the alcoholic cannot tolerate criticism or advice from others.

Above all, the memory of his/her utter helplessness and failure is more than embarrassing; it is far too painful for a person who thinks and acts as if he/she were a little god in their own world.

The wheel goes round and round.

The curtain never closes after act three, but instead the acts run over and over again. As years go by the actors get older, but there is little change in the words or the action of the play.

It is true that there is almost no chance that the alcoholic will stop drinking as along as other people remove all the painful consequences for him/her. The other actors find it difficult to change. It is much easier and far less painful for them to say that the alcoholic cannot be helped, than to go through the agony of learning to play a new role.

Self-creating crisis

If drinking continues long enough, the alcoholic creates a crisis, gets into trouble, and ends up in a mess. This can happen in many ways, but the pattern is always the same: he/she is a dependent who behaves as if he/she were independent, and drinking makes it easy to convince himself/herself this is true. Yet the results of his drinking make him ever more dependent upon others.

When his/her self-created crisis strikes, he waits for something to happen, ignores it, walks away from it, or cries for someone to get him/her out of it. Alcohol, which at first gave him/her a sense of success and independence, has now stripped him/her of their mask and reveals a helpless, dependent child.

The crisis is a way of reassuring the alcoholic that they have control over the other players in the play.

The Little God

No one has a right to play God and demand that the alcoholic stop drinking. The reverse is also true. The alcoholic can only continue to act like a little god, telling everyone what to do, while doing as he/she pleases, if a supporting cast continues to play their roles. Every player has every right and responsibility to refuse to act as if the alcoholic in their lives were God whose every wish and commandment be obeyed.

Ending the play

There is no easy way to stop the merry-go-round, for it can be more painful to stop it than to keep it going. It is impossible to spell out definite rules which apply to all members of the play. Each case is different, but the framework of the play remains the same.

HelenHen · 23/02/2014 13:36

I really wish you well op. I'm glad you have outside support. Hopefully it won't need to end in divorce. You taking the kids, if only for as few nights, will hopefully be the wake up call he needs. Does he have any family he could contact to help him? I agree with those who said to leave him the numbers he needs and tell him to call them. I agree that it's his problem but you also want to point him in the right direction and make it easier for him to get that help. Can you get rid of any alcohol in the house so he's not tempted to feel sorry for himself and drink more? I don't know if that's good advice or not though, maybe somebody else can advise. And yep, time for help in rl.

Good luck Sad

AttilaTheMeerkat · 23/02/2014 13:41

chickenwing

You were and remain very strong. Good luck to you.

I fear though that OP's H does not want help and is not serious about wanting help even now. He is more apt to blame his wife and family for his ongoing problems pertaining to alcohol and has perhaps been an alcoholic for the history of their relationship and beyond that too. It is telling that his only friends are drinking buddies (themselves likely alcoholic as well). If he really does want help and is serious about doing so HE himself has to find AAs number, his wife cannot do that for him or hand it to him.

EirikurNoromaour · 23/02/2014 13:43

Obviously you shouldn't listen to your dad's advice about his drinking in that case!

Squeegle · 23/02/2014 14:03

I agree completely re the decision to contact AA has to come from him. I also think that getting rid of any alcohol is not the thing to do really. He can do that or he cannot, but if OP does it she is starting to be the "controller". I used to get rid of my Ex's alcohol. What a waste of time that was! I somehow thought that I could control his drinking. It took me quite a time to realise that it made no difference.

I really hope that he will seek help; but that has to come from a desire that he has. Handing the phone keeps him being this "dependent" person, who will seek to rebel and be independent - and to start drinking again.

Have a good few days away OP. Tellling people in real life is a great thing to do. Don't keep it to yourself. You'll get more support than you could have imagined.

Thumbwitch · 23/02/2014 14:10

I've read on here before that there is a very good reason NOT to get rid of an alcoholic's stash, but I can't remember exactly why (apart from it taking responsibility away from the alcoholic). Perhaps someone else can?

Squeegle · 23/02/2014 14:22

Well, for me there are 3 reasons:
1). You precipitate an ugly scene
2). You turn yourself into jailer and start talking on responsibility, getting obsessed etc
3). It doesn't do any good anyway, there are plenty of shops around

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 23/02/2014 15:34

So sorry you are going through this, OP.
This may be hard to consider, but imho, I will guess your husband is the type of guy who generally does not respect women, even when things are "ok"? Do you have the feeling you are there just for his convience?

As it sounds like he does not want to engage with you at all (even when you are heavily pg, and in public!!). It must be very frustrating for you and sad. And you can not make him give you attention or any consideration.
What I am getting around to saying is that, perhaps, he has already checked out of your relationship, emotionally anyway. There is not another woman; the other woman is alcohol.

You will, if not already, become well acquainted with many forms and dynamics of manipulation. The lies related to the gp visit are a good example. The pity card, no one would miss him if he were dead, is another manipulation. The violence, ripping clothes and breaking toys, is another one. He does not like being a dad, or husband, does he? That is the take away truth from that display.

You do not owe him anything at this point. You have no reason to be or feel guilty from removing/protecting yourself and dc from this alcoholic nightmare.

It has not yet been mentioned, but also check out the Adult Children Of Alcoholics, of which you are one, as you said your father was an alcoholic. The effects of growing up in such an environment are very real and hard to overcome. Spare your children that.
Good luck.

Lweji · 23/02/2014 15:39

Essentially he is a nasty man who really doesn't care about you or the children, nor is happy in your company. It doesn't matter if he's drinking or not, because he will still be nasty.
He may be able to hide a bit better when not drunk, but now the absence of a drink creates the excuse that it's because he's not drinking.
You have to decide what to do based on this.

He may have his own issues, but it's affecting you and the children, so he should remove himself from the scene until he can at least be a decent father.

HowardTJMoon · 23/02/2014 15:58

I've read on here before that there is a very good reason NOT to get rid of an alcoholic's stash

There are lots of reasons. First, getting between an active alcoholic and their next drink can be a genuinely dangerous place to be (as OP has already discovered).

Second, it won't make the slightest difference in the long run as all that will happen is that they'll buy more booze and hide it better next time. As Al-Anon says, "You didn't cause their drinking problem, you can't control it, and you can't cure it."

Third, and as a consequence of the second, you are setting yourself up as the booze police and will end up spending your days hunting round the house trying to find the latest hiding place. It will end up as a battle of wills and wits between you and them and, frankly, the alcoholic is much more motivated to keep drinking than you are in getting them to stop.

Finally and most importantly - it's not yours. Throwing away someone else's property because they are doing something that you don't want them to do is to embroil yourself in their responsibilities. It is controlling behaviour and it is co-dependent behaviour. You have neither the moral nor legal right to insist that another adult live their life the way you think they should.

What you do have the moral right to decide is the degree to which you will allow someone else's choices to affect your life. If someone else's drinking is badly affecting your life and the lives of your children then you have the right and the duty to decide how much you are willing to expose yourself to those behaviours. Which is what I think the OP is going to do while she takes some time away from her DH.

Good luck OP. I've been where you are and I know how hard it is. If nothing else, believe this - his drinking problem is not your secret to keep. Talk about it to people you trust. Go to Al-Anon if you can, if only to hear how you're not the only person who has faced what you are facing. It is your responsibility to get help for you and the situation you are in just as it is your husband's responsibility to get help for him.

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