"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's February 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

frazmum

Do not meet your dad, remain unavailable. I would not even eat a meal with the man. Would not put myself out so. Narcissists do not really care how and where they let rip; societal convention goes out the window with such people.

Any contact from you also would be seen by him as a reward; also you'd be only doing this anyway because his brother wanted you to do so. He is certainly not acting in your best interests.

On last 2 times I ate in a restaurant with my father he made a big deal over getting a special meal as he said he was allergic to wheat, he isn't. Also my 2 DS were telling him about our holiday in Spain and as he hadn't been there so couldn't 'better' their stories he turned around in his seat so his back was to them and stared at a picture on the wall. DS12 was 11 at the time and bravely covered up being upset.

Think I need to take the plunge and go NC. Do you just do this or should I email him saying we won't be seeing him when there on holiday. This will probably unleash a torrent of abuse at me and how I've got massive issues.

frazmum

I'd just go NC and do not send him any e-mails.

If you persist with “no contact” he is likely to respond to this by using all of the weapons in his arsenal in an attempt to force you to yield. He may use intimidation. He may try to provoke you with nasty remarks that he thinks you will not be able to resist responding to. He may try flattery, telling you how no one else compares to you or perhaps he will even apologize (both completely insincere of course).

Beware, his last resort – PITY. This manipulation technique often gets us even when we are feeling at our strongest. I know how hard it is to ignore someone who appears to be crying out for help. To a normal person with compassion (like us) it feels so unnatural and cruel to ignore someone who appears to be in pain, especially if it is indicated that their pain is as a result of our behaviour. It goes against everything that we have been taught about being a good person.

REMEMBER: The narcissist is fully aware of this and that is why “pity” is such a powerful weapon for him to use against us as it so often delivers the result he wants. But you must stand firm, because once he realizes that he cannot manipulate you anymore he is likely to give up and leave you alone.

dizzy I haven't told her I've gone NC. I don't think I will.though I am expecting some kind of contact attempted to be initiated over the next few weeks. Probably when she realises she has nothing from me for Mother's Day. Then I imagine it will be messages and phone calls from my dad and/or brother about how 'hurt' she is. I was thinking I will just not respond or just say 'well she thinks I'm such a bad parent, I can be a bad daughter now too' meh.

honey your MIL sounds very similar to my mother! Detach, detach, detach. They're horrible people

Thanks all. I'm actually feeling better now than I've done for a while. You've helped me reinforce that it's not my fault but him. Will now just walk away. I still will face some 'discussion' from my uncle but will just say I've tried, had enough of the abuse and refuse to continue.

Thanks Attila for the expected responses. I've been on the receiving end of all of them, but it's still easy to get caught out. Even threatened to commit suicide once if I didn't behave how he wanted.

frazmum he turned his back on your kids mid-story? WTAF?!

Please don't alert him or your uncle to anything. If your uncle says while you are over, have you called DF? have/are you meeting him etc just reply, no, not yet. and if he pushes say that you haven't made any plans for anything and that really he needn't concern himself with your comings and goings.

Just slip quietly out of your DF life. if your uncle causes any issues remind him that you don't have to have HIM in your life either, not if he is going to take you to task for things that are really none of his business.

You really DON'T have to put up with anything from anyone.

good grief, .... then no, meal in restaurant sounds awful. I hope your uncle can see your point, it sounds like you value the relationship with him.

Don't tell your uncle you're going NC unless you absolutely have to, eg if you are seeing him and then he says 'oh I'll invite your father too" at which point you'll have to say you'd rather not. Just hope he doenst put too much pressure on you. It's rotten when you have to cut out any remaining decent family because of one bad apple.

Thanks all. Just spoken to my DH who's very pleased we won't be seeing him as he's unhappy with me being so upset.

You've given me some good coping strategies.

Thanks all, I hope you don't mind if I write up various anecdotes just for catharsis? I really don't see her as a full-blooded Narc but maybe with some tendencies. She is not deliberately cruel and vicious for example. Mostly she is relatively harmless, she just doesn't seem to have the ways and means to deal with stress and her bad behavior seems to spill out when she stressed about something usually completly unrelated. However I was just reading online about engulfing mothers and she has some tendencies.

For example I think when we were newly married I was visiting a house where she was also staying. There was a Jack and Jill bathroom where I was taking a shower (one bathroom shared between two bedrooms with a door from each room into it). First of all she came in when I was obviously in the shower (I can't remember if I thought the doors were locked or not) but if I realised someone (anyone, but particularly someone I hardly knew) was taking a shower I would leave and give them privacy. Instead, she came in and after a while I realised she was checking me out in the shower by looking in the mirror - like Edwina and Patsy with Saffy! I have just read that having no boundaries in the bathroom is typical of engulfing mothers - and she's only my MIL. She also told me waaaayyyyy too much detail about her sex life with FIL (they were already divorced) during the same trip. Totally volunteered this information of course - definitely NOT something I had any desire to know! She is just weird about sex, she is lurid and inappropriate and yet prudish at the same time.

From what you've written of her she does sound both cruel and vicious. All that you describe is actually typical behaviour of an engulfing narcissist.

You need to keep and maintain physical and mental distance away from such a person for your own sake. Being an ocean away makes it easier for you to achieve this.

I would have said my mother was engulfing but not cruel or vicious, but she has been at TOTAL FUCKING BITCH to and about my DH. I bet your MIL isn't as harmless as you think if you cross her.

Hi Honey. What you say about your MIL resonates a lot with me, there are so many similarities. I wouldn't say she's full blown narc either, but she definitely has narc characteristics and that's enough.
I think your concerns about her blaming you are sadly probably very justified. I know that my place in the family has become scapegoat - I am the cause of everything DH does that they don't like. It used to be more restrained with little comments about me having my "thumbprint on his forehead", once I'd had enough and had it out with them (after years of quietly taking it) it's now open season. Any argument DH has with them comes back to me, it is always apparently my fault (because I've 'brainwashed him' and turned him into a horrible person ). Anything DH says I am now treated as though I've said it and get some quite petty and spiteful remarks made at me. I don't want to be dramatic and make you paranoid, but it can and does happen so be careful. When you say she isn't cruel or vicious I think what you mean is she hasn't been cruel or vicious to you yet. She has that capacity, don't underestimate it.

frazmum it's not your dad who's mentioned meeting up with him it was your uncle, so imo there's no need to contact or mention no visits to him at all.

I think SIL1 maybe planning a christening. I'm an atheist so I don't attend christenings, as is DH. I'm wondering how I decline (should we be invited) without it turning into WW3. Any ideas anyone?

Oh just to add, if it was a close member of the family who genuinely believed in God and for whom a christening was extremely important I probably would attend out of respect for their beliefs. SIL1 however has been adamant about being an atheist, not believing in God or an afterlife etc. She seems to want one just for the sake of it - getting a party and attention. I don't really want to support that.

Dizzy, accept and then all catch "norovirus" the day before?

Been speaking to Dbro, his therapy is very interesting. The session yday was about DM. Therapist said she had narc traits and was v "verbally aggressive and violent". I would so so so love to have some sessions with this guy, he sounds really good. But he's really expensive and in another country

argh! Accidental interction with the mad mother...more PA patheticness. Want to scream at her to FUCK OFF!

I always revisit this thread for not just guidance, but also when reading others problems, it reminds me of why I should never go back. Non contact with ils and happy now for a 1yr & 7months and just lately for some reason I have started to feel guilt towards mil.
I suppose it is because I see other children with their grandmothers and I realise she is missing out and I have caused it. But coming back here always gives me the reminder I am doing the right thing by my dc and in fact the only thing they are missing out on, is the shit that dh had to grow up with.

So glad I joined stately homes, god knows where we would be now

And dh hasn't seen them for around 9-10 months, he is doing good!

Good2Better: do tell...

Why not look at seeing if you could so some skype sessions with this guy? 6 hours or so?

Hi all

I've lurked before and posted occasionally, I'm not even sure what I want from writing stuff down.

I have a lovely one year old and a fab dh, amazing stepson and great job, so why now am I falling to pieces?

I've just started seeing a counsellor and she's fab, she's made me realise that I emotionally switch off when everything gets too much and it's how I dealt with my really crao childhood (abusive violent dad, sexually abused by uncle and mum who was so scared off my dad). Except I'm now struggling, everything is too much and my counsellor says that there should be a step between me being overwhelmed and in bits, to then switching off and even though the switching off feels better for mem it's really not great so I've tried so hard to stay at the upset part and try and offload but I can't and all that's happened is I feel worse.

Sat here in tears, dh doesn't know what to say, my boss is wicked and also a friend and has said text him any time, I nearly did, but then will be embarrassed at work tomorrow. So sorry but I guess I dump everything in here. I don't even know what I want, I guess to feel better, but I don't know how too. :(

Having a hard time with DB ATM. Had a debate, nothing spectacular, just boring facts and statistics, about staffies (I've 2 well behaved and loving staffords), then he goes on about how I shouldn't have 2 together as they won't get on (they practically do everything together without any problems at all), how his friend has bred staffords for 20yrs and knows more about them, so I said that his friend knows about the SBTs the HE has reared, but because no 2 dogs are the same, regardless of whether they are an SBT or another breed, his friend cannot say anything about my dogs until he has actually met them and I used my 2 dog's differing personalities as an indicator of that. So while I'm throwing facts and statistics at him, he is getting more irate that I'm giving calm measured responses that he can't really counter. He then says that he wouldn't embarrass himself by saying that to his mate and threatened to, in his exact words, "stab the dogs if they so much as sniff the wrong way around my kids". I then countered that by informing him that he could be jailed for illegally killing a dog without the proper training and that he would have to be a registered vet to kill any dog/animal, to which he replied that he didn't fucking care.

I'm just so fed up with my brother. He is the type who can't bear to lose an argument or debate and hates it when he knows he will not win an argument/debate, so resorts to personal attacks when he is cornered by facts and statistics. I have said to him that I will never say that my dogs won't bite, but I have said that they're highly unlikely to considering the current circumstances in which they live. After that, DB called me a fucking dick for putting my dogs above his family (that's the way he saw it).

I was speaking to a friend about it, told her that I'm not going to bring my nieces into an argument between DB and me or stop giving the DN's presents due to a spat between me and my brother. I asked her how she saw the over all situation and she told me straight that my brother was out of order when he threatened to stab the dogs, but then asked what would be classed as sniffing round someone the 'wrong way' . Anyway, went to mum and dad's on Monday (17th March) and dropped DN and SIL's presents over as I am still very busy with coursework and assignments and won't have much time to call up to their house (not sure I'd be welcome). Mum asked why DS and DD didn't go to DN's party and the convo went something like this:

Mum: Why didn't DS and DD go to DN's party
Me: They weren't invited and I only found out when I went on FB yesterday (16th).
Mum: Have you fallen out with SIL?
Me: No, I haven't fallen out with anyone. DN's and SIL are more than welcome at our house whenever they want, although they won't be at ours due to SIL being scared of dogs. I have said that we can offer to help SIL and DNs with their fear and we are more than happy to work it around them when they feel ready.
Mum: But not everyone likes dogs.
Me: I know that and that's why we're available to help when they feel ready to start facing dogs in a controlled situation.
Mum: I wish you and DB would make up and you both apologise to each other.
Me: What do I have to apologise for? I didn't do anything wrong.
Mum: You made DB angry arguing about your dogs.
Me: No mum, DB got angry because he was becoming less and less able to counter the facts, statistics and measured responses I was putting to him. In simple terms, he got angry because, intellectually, I wasn't letting him get the last word in and I am not apologising for his lack of emotional control.
Mum: You know it would break our hearts if you fell out.
Me: I haven't fallen out with him as a person, I am just fed up with his attitude toward me and I'm not going to tolerate being treated like shit because he can't get his way and is acting like a stroppy know-it-all teen. Did you know that he threatened to stab the dogs and called me a fucking dick? Do you think I should tolerate that because I'd never advise anyone to accept being treated like that.
Mum: C'mon Chiggers, you 2 need to say sorry to each other.
Me: It's not my job to apologise for DB's actions. I'll apologise for my own actions, not someone else's regardless of whether they're family or not.

So the convo got pretty circular and mum kept going over about apologising to DB and when I refused point blank, she started getting irate and nasty. I made my excuses about loads of stuff to do and left for home. Before I left, I spoke to dad about the situation and he said that not only did I handle the situation between DB and me well, I also shouldn't apologise for DB getting angry.

I am kind of stuck as to what my next move should be. Hopefully I'll pass this course and need to move 100 miles away to make it easier than spending 5-6hrs a day travelling to university.

Apologies for the length of the post and I hope it didn't make any of you good ladies fall asleep , but I'd appreciate some input on the situation so I can see things more clearly. When you're in the middle of a horrible situation, it helps to have input from someone outside, as sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees IYSWIM.

Chiggers, you gave a good account of yourself, and said/did all the right things.

Sadly you tried to engage with a prick. And his mother.

You won't win. Don't expect support from her.

Just do what you know is right for you, don't let their choices impact on you.

He goaded you and you bit.

Just don't have him round, don't meet him and leave it at that. He's no loss.

Hissy, was just talking about that to DBro. His guy is 85€ a session, but don't know if he does skype. Can't really afford that right now..but might think about looking for someone in the future.
Today was:
she phones to tell me about the stray cat she's taken in. The vet told her to keep it in after vax in as town hall are apparently going to round up strays and euthanise them and may not bother checking for microchips first. She was on about how the other stray cat (who's just had kittens) may disappear and then she'll have to drown the kittens in a bucket.
arrrrghhh!
Then she was saying how she's been ill (a bad cold), I'm recovering but I'm still v weak, when would be a good time to go to little local supermarket and get them to deliver? I said, not sure...sorry can't help as life is mental...huge amounts of translation, DS's party, classes, observation next week and week after.....and she goes all quiet, sighing. Ok well then...ok. sigh...bye.
I think on balance a bit of therapy for how to deal with her would be good.

Who the fuck drowns kittens in a fucking bucket?

Please don't call her again, let her do her thing and sort herself out for now!

I hear the spanish telephone system is dreadful lines cut all the time (especially if some old bag is wittering on looking for attention) ;-)

85euros? Shiiiiiit! My guy's only what's that in English? My guy's £45, and will do phone sessions. You could find someone else that skypes..

The kitten thing quite upset me actually.

Ratbag welcome.

Chiggers I think you handled that situation really well. Can't add much to Hissys advice.

at drowning kittens. Almost like she wanted to shock you goodtobetter.