DH is such a horrible nasty drunk

[AhoyMcCoy]

DH is wonderful when he's sober. And lovely charming and funny before about 10 pints. But he will go out and drink close to 30 pints (genuinely) and he's so awful - really aggressive and nasty.

Last few weeks it's been the same thing, goes out says he will be home by X o clock. That time comes and goes, I hear nothing. 20+ missed calls/texts and he eventually comes home smashed. The next day is always the same- so contrite, promising it won't happen again. It's happened three times now in a month. It's not the drinking I have a problem with as much as the lack of contact. He will literally ignore his phone all night and I worry. He's promised a billion times he'll stay in touch from now on.

I'm 5 months pregnant (DC1) and tonight was my first night out with the girls since I found out. Had a lovely night and left them all at midnight to get a cab home. As soon as the cab drove off, I realised I didn't have my keys. DH had been out since 7, and hadn't text me once (despite the hourly reminders he had set on his phone to make sure he did, after I'd explained how much it bothered me). Got hold of some friends who were with him, and he got a cab home. I was sitting on the doorstep shivering and he didn't even look at me. Just opened the door, turned round and got back in his cab.

Didn't ask if his pregnant wife was ok after half an hour in the freezing cold. Nothing. Looked at me like I was scum and left so he could go back drinking with his mates.

It doesn't bode well for him being a good/caring dad, does it? He really doesn't care about anyone but himself. I'm in absolute pieces.

Fwiw I think sending the text was the right thing to do. Hopefully it has touched a nerve.

Do you think he realises that he has a problem?

Do you think he would go to AA?

He would go to AA if I suggested/insisted he did, which I won't do. Any actions need to come from him or they won't be sustainable.

I think he realises his behaviour is a problem and isn't right or acceptable, and he realises the amount he drinks and the binges are a problem and are unnacceptable. I don't think he is ready to acknowledge that the solution to this is to stop drinking completely, I think he thinks he can lessen his intake considerably. He stopped smoking 20+ a day the minute he found out I was pregnant (again, his decision, I've never insisted on this, just made it clear he couldn't smoke around me), and I think he thinks he got the willpower to just be the lovely affable drunk he is when he doesn't drink to oblivion.

I second AA. They really helped dh at the start, when he gave up alcohol. He doesn't go any longer, because he manages fine without, but he knows they are still there if he were to need them in the future.

If he has reached the point where HE really wants to change, that is the first, and most important step. Remember, though, even if he does quit, cold turkey, and decides never to drink again, he might lapse - it is a really hard addiction to give up - but a lapse doesn't have to mean total failure (to either him or you) - it is a setback, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world. If he has a lapse, he has to forgive himself, and start again, staying sober. He, and you, need to see it as a one-off, not total failure of the sobriety project.

I also wonder if some couples counselling for you both would help - particularly so that you had a safe environment in which to explain to your dh exactly why this upsets you so much, and to help him to see how much of a problem his drinking is.

I am sending you lots of good thoughts and wishing you both much luck with this.

You're being very fair to him. I actually like the tone of his response. I hope he steps up to the plate.

I see what you are saying about him having to make the decision to go to AA by himself, but I don't think it would be a bad thing for you to mention them to him.

At the point where dh crawled out of the utility room, where he'd been on the floor, drunk, (unbeknownst to me), and burst into tears because he had hit rock bottom and needed help, I actually rang AA. They told me that he had to ring them (and if I recall correctly, I couldn't just hand the phone over to him either) - because, as you say, it had to be his decision.

But it was OK for me to ask him if he had thought of AA, and did he want to speak to them now - which I did, and he said yes, and then spoke to an AA volunteer on the phone. The next day, I drove him to his first meeting.

So, whilst you probably shouldn't say, "I want you to go to AA", you could say something like, "Have you considered asking AA for help?"

I think he thinks he got the willpower to just be the lovely affable drunk he is when he doesn't drink to oblivion.

Even if he does have that willpower, given the staggering volumes he consumes that would still involve drinking far more than his body will be able to cope with over the long term.

I think you are very sensible to let him come to these decisions on his own.

You say you don't think he has a drinking problem BUT you were hoping he'd change when becoming a father...
You say you've told him you wouldn't put up with his behaviour but you have done nothing to show you won't...

I think you know he has a problem, I think you are realising he won't change of his own will.
All you can do is change your attitude and show him with actions what you think is unacceptable.

Maybe first you need to decide what is acceptable and what isn't for you.

Maybe what you could put up with as a partner is not what you can put up with as a mother?

One thing that it might be worth considering with AA is that it has the tendency, oft mentioned in meetings, to "ruin your drinking". What I mean by that is once a drunk has sat in meetings and listened to, effectively, their own life being described to them, they find they can no longer drink in total denial of what they're doing. Recovery in these cases often follows, though not necessarily immediately.
You are spot on in that the impetus to attend a meeting does have to come from the addict, and the desire to change, which is why AA will never ring a drinker at the request of a third party. But that doesn't mean that you can't encourage him, or perhaps even give him AA literature to think about.

I do hope that you're still planning to go to the Al Anon meeting on Thursday, because if nothing else, there will be lots of experience there to draw on in terms of how to find the tricky line between "making" your husband go, and encouraging him to seek help for himself because he sees he needs it.

AndyWarholsBanana I totally get that AA isn't for everyone, and hope I don't sound like I'm trying to push it to the exclusion of everything else. But it does have a comparatively high long-term success rate in this area where long-term success rates overall are so unhappily low, and it's the only thing I've got experience of, so I continue to bang my AA drum . Also, I do think Al Anon is a tremendous resource for the OP as it's full of people who've gone through everything from deciding to leave their DPs (and subsequently had to learn how to co-exist with an alcoholic parent, no mean feat in itself) to those whose DPs have gone into recovery and who have remained married. And probably some who remain married to drinking alcoholics...

I think the text was the right decision. Well done for being so strong OP

One thing I'm not clear on, is what happens next. Are we currently in a situation which provides you with the time and space to think what happens next, or have you some ideas? The only thing that occurs to me is asking him, "What concrete things are you going to do to demonstrate your promise of no more mess ups?".

I've read the whole thread (while I should have been working!). Your DD is a lucky girl Ahoy. She has a great mummy who, in spite of having such a total lack of support in her own life, is willing to step and up do what's best for her even though it is incredibly hard. Lucky lucky girl.

You have been badly let down by so many people in your life, your mum first and foremost I'm guessing. Your dad should have stood up for you, but he didn't. The message he sent to you was that your feelings don't really count and that you have to put up with your husband no matter what he does. That is NOT true, but I think you're getting that.

You are an incredibly important person. You are your DD's mum. There is no one in the world who can replace you and so you are immeasurably precious. You know that in your heart and you are willing to protect yourself for the sake of your DD. But even if you were not a mum, the same thing would be true. You matter. A lot. Your feelings count.

No one should ever hit you, with anything or for any reason. Ever, no matter what.
No one should ever push you.
No one should shout in your face. Ever.
No one should treat you with contempt and walk past you shivering on a doorstep. Ever.
You can say no. And the person you say no to should listen and do as you ask. If they don't then they are not worth your time.

You are valuable. Hugely so. But everyone around you acts like that's not the case. Because it suits them to disregard you. Well now you're reminding them that in fact, it's not ok to forget about you. It's not ok to pat you on the head and say "there there" and tell you you're hormonal. You know what you need, you know what your daughter needs. And you're going to demand it. And get it.

It's hard to accept that your lovely Dad is assisting your husband (unknowingly) in abusing you. In his mind he probably thinks he is protecting you from making a mistake. He is not. He is minimising your feelings and telling you you don't count. You need to sit him down and tell him straight that though he might disagree, what you are doing is the righ thing, and what you need is his support, not his criticism or his patronising advice. He needs to be on your side. You are his daughter. Marriage is not more important than that. Nothing is more important than that.

It's great that you have RL support. Use it.

How are you feeling?

Well done, Ahoy! You are doing brilliantly - and clearly sending that text was a good idea. I agree that his response was thoughtful and implies that the message is really getting through. I do so hope he chooses to give AA a go. Nothing to lose, after all? And I second Calindana above when she says your daughter is a lucky girl to have such a strong, responsible woman as her mother.

Ahoy

You are very correct in saying all the next moves re AA must come from him.

You are beginning to make it clear that this life isn't for you. It's so hard I know....I bet you are surprising yourself with just how strong you really are....

Ahoy, can I just say that it was my mother attending Al-Anon (and the tough love regime she was encouraged to adopt) which led to my recovery. She refused to let me in the house any more (she was my last refuge, as I had lost all my friends and the rest of my family) and so I ended up on the streets, then a women's domestic violence refuge and then, finally, rehab. It was Al-Anon that gave my mum the strength to turn me away in my darkest hours. I'm so grateful to them.

Ahoy can I just ask how much you told your sister?

I only ask because I once was your sister. It was only when my sister told me the whole truth and saw my reaction that I think she began to accept how absolutely horrendous it all was. I went from telling her that they needed to go to Relate and that he just needed to do some growing up to absolute horror and disgust that my sister had been treated like that. I suspect your dad/sister would be the same. I honestly feel sick when I think back to then, my beautiful, clever sister believing that she deserved to be treated and spoken to like that.

Stay strong and believe you deserve more.

CailinDana has just written one of the most touching and helpful posts in this thread, OP. Worth printing out, I reckon.

Meanwhile, you are doing so well. Keep your nerve and yes, definitely go to that meeting of Al Anon on Thursday. Don't let anyone talk you out of it. As for your husband cutting back and becoming just the 'lovely affable drunk' ... well, I worry about this. Thin end of the wedge, surely - from my experience seeing drunks in action, they pass, without realising, the 'affable' stage and reach the 'drunken, uncontrollable sot' stage. They just don't know when to stop.

Thank you so much, all of you, for the time, efforts and thoughts you have given to a stranger you'll never meet. It's a lovely thought. There have been so many wonderful posts that have really resounded with me, and CailinDana, yours is one of them. Thank you.

He text me again today. Could he meet me just to talk, he had so much he wanted to say that he can't get across in texts. And I said yes. I said everything I wanted to say, and mentioned AA as an option to him (not one he's going to consider I don't think), and said I would be going to Al-anon. He asked if he could come home, I think he expected that because I'd agreed to meet him, I'd agree. When I said no, he wasn't pleased. I wouldn't say he was angry, but certainly forceful. He said it was ridiculous, and all his family were asking him what he could have possibly done to warrant this, as no-one would act like this over alcohol only.

He said I was reacting like he had cheated or something, and when I said that someone who disrespected their wife by cheating wasn't any different in my eyes than someone who disrespected their wife with awful alcohol related behaviour, he snorted. Told me I'm being ridiculous again.

I just went in the house and shut the door, but I'm gutted. I don't think he does get it after all. As soon as I said he couldn't come home yet, he stopped being apologetic and meek.

I still have to give him a chance to prove himself, or else I will never know if we could have made it work, but I'm accepting now that there is a chance this won't happen, and I think I've come to terms with that in my head.

Will 100% go to Al-anon. Looking back, my mum has a similar attitude to drink (just drinking until utterly smashed, no control etc), and I have a couple of other relatives who are now tee-total after many issues with alcohol, and I definitely think alcohol issues are something that run in my family (and DHs family), and I think being more aware of this will be really useful for me.

That penny's not dropping is it?

Well done for standing your ground though.

When I said no, he wasn't pleased. I wouldn't say he was angry, but certainly forceful. That nice, conciliatory, I'm-so-sorry-I'll-do-anything phase isn't lasting long, is it?

He said it was ridiculous, and all his family were asking him what he could have possibly done to warrant this, as no-one would act like this over alcohol only. Ah, we've moved on to this tactic? Well he's wrong, 'cos I would react like you have and far, far earlier than you did. And I bet I'm not the only one.

I still have to give him a chance to prove himself, or else I will never know if we could have made it work You still are giving him a chance. He still isn't making it work.

I think that things will slot in to place when you go to AA. I look forward to hearing how it goes, and what happens on Thursday.

anon you are being very brave. Your posts are heartbreaking to read but you sound like you are getting more clarity with each day over what you do want and don't want for your life going forward. I am sorry your h is being so selfish and in such denial.

Excessive alcohol consumption is very prevent in UK life I'm not going to deny that. But what you describe isn't normal and what you had growing up isn't normal. I'm glad that you'll go to that meeting it will be so helpful for you.

Big hugs.

Prevelant not prevent doh

He didn't really get why Saturday night had been an issue either- he'd come home when he got the message I was locked out, and said he could understand me being mad if he'd left me there, but he rushed back to let me in. He thinks his attitude shouldn't be taken into consideration as much as the fact he did rush back. So I mentioned the other unnacceptable drink related stuff - lots of it. Not that long ago I came home from a night out wearing a male friends jacket- he'd given it to me while I was waiting for a cab and it was cold. DH went MENTAL at me. Calling me a fucking slag, slut etc. He took my phone off me and kept it til the morning. In the morning he text this guy "I don't remember last night at all- how did I come home with your jacket?" (Trying to 'catch me out') the guy just replied saying he'd given it to me while I was waiting for a cab, and then DH replied "did anything else happen? I don't remember much!" And the guy replied to say not at all, and that I was very sweet. That was it. But I was MORTIFIED. I've barely spoken to this guy since, he must think I'm mentally unhinged. And when I told DH all these things that had happened while he was drunk that were not acceptable, he shot straight back at me and said it's awful to bring up old stuff that happened a year ago etc, and that it's never happened since then, so I can hardly say it's regular. That he's never done anything like that since I've been his wife.

But the whole encounter has left a really bad taste in my mouth now. Generally, I think much less of him now, and he's come off his pedestal a bit for me.

OP Calling me a fucking slag, slut etc. He took my phone off me and kept it til the morning

This alone. This. Alone. Would mean I'd never let that man darken my doorstep again.

You're starting to see the real him now.

He'll flip flop back and forth a bit now - nice guy to try to soften you up (he'll most likely use the "not wanting your baby raised without it's daddy" card), and then nasty guy when you don't just give in. Pretty much textbook, to be honest.

Then he'll start getting family members to work on you a bit - ringing you, putting in a good word for him, coaxing you to give in. Probably even your dad, if you haven't yet told him about the way your DH really treats you. So brace yourself for that.

Oh dear
I'm very sorry. He doesn't get it at all, and to be honest, drunk or not, he sounds horrible. His behaviour is really controlling and disrespectful. I don't believe that alcohol changes a person, it simply dis inhibits them to the point where they say or do what their impulses tell them.

The thing is...he's done far, far worse than being drunk and leaving you shivering on a doorstep.

He's abusive, that's your problem. He didn't text the guy while he was drunk, presumably, since he waited til the next day to send that text.

It's not about his drinking, it's about his utter contempt for you.

The waters are muddied a bit with the focus on drinking/AA/Al-anon etc. Is it easier (for all of you?) to say that alcohol is the problem because that's something that can be 'fixed', something that has a solution?

The problems in your marriage are bigger than his issues with drink. That's a red herring.