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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Gaslighting : ignore or confront?

131 replies

jadeddazedandconfused · 07/02/2014 15:39

Hi, I have just come to the realisation that I'm being gaslighting. I have split from husband but still sharing a home.
Over the years I have found lots of 'missing' things in odd places or even in the bin. Mostly it is small items of mine and the children, sometimes there are cost implications other times it's just annoying and slightly distressing because he always denied it or blamed our small children even when he's hidden things so high the children couldn't have done it.
Sometimes it's been important documents.

Recently when I asked him for something that had disappeared and I'd searched everywhere he produced it and said I'd not looked properly (I had) and he said 'if I was going to take o
Today I remembered how when he was bullied at school he took revenge by stealing from their bags & coats in the cloakroom. I believe The hiding /throwing away stuff is part of that old pattern but it makes me feel unsafe, not 100% sure how to tackle it.

Hundreds of times I have asked him not to touch /move/dispose of my /the children's things but when met with blatant denial it's hard to know how to deal with it. I can't lock everything away being don't know what he will choose next.

I have thought about getting a box and just saying anytime you're not sure what to do with something just put it in here for me to sort out but I feel trying to do things on the sly that won't help
I thought I could mention the bullying story he told me but I'm expecting him just to laugh it off as usual and tell me how ridiculous I am but at least he'd know I'm on to him.

OP posts:
horsetowater · 14/02/2014 20:51

The Client on Film 4 but it's over 2 hours long.

NanaNina · 15/02/2014 15:42

Hi Jaded - I have just read through your other thread as Twinklestein posted a link.

I notice that gaslighting wasn't mentioned so presumably this has come up on this thread, but I haven't read all the posts.

Re: safeguarding concerns. I think I said I was a social worker/middle manager for some 30 years and am now retired and obviously a lot of my work was child protection related. I think there are definitely concerns about safeguarding. The porn issue - the problem is you have no way of knowing exactly what he is looking at or whether he is involved in sharing pictures of sexual abuse with other men, although he seems to want to prove his innocence by letting you have access to his phone etc. BUT as others have pointed out an IT expert could be using quite sophisticated methods to access all sorts of things. I think when the police seize computers they have to check the hard drive to find out all the details. However I am no IT expert (far from it) so am not sure about that.

I think the fact that he moved the bank statements is a concern. Sorry I can't remember if you challenged him and what his response was.

However my main concerns relate to the issue with the 7 year old girl. You say she was "doing the crab" - were there other people in the room? Is this something she would do, or could your ex have suggested she "do the crab" knowing that her genitals would be exposed. However I think the fact that he stopped looking and became a bit flustered when you came in the room says it all. IF it was all innocent and he hadn't really noticed why would he be flustered????

Also the issue with the teenage step-daughter I think is another cause for concern. OK it seems the girl was possibly initiating this kind of contact but any bloke with an ounce of sense would know that it was inappropriate for him to be picking up the girl and holding her while she wrapped her legs around him. Yes, a father might do this with a 3 year old as a way of playing but certainly not with a teenage girl. He was probably flattered that she liked this physical contact.

Again I am reminded of a case I dealt with - it involved foster carers and the couple I recruited had older children who had grown up and left home but they had the children when they were very young (she was 16 when first pregnant) and so were still only in their 30s when we approved them. They were brilliant foster carers and always fostered boys - I don't think they had stated a preference, it was just the way it was and because they were so good, their placements used to last over 2 or 3 years and they kept in touch with the boys after they had moved on to more independent living.

We started a "mother and baby placement" in cases where there was concern for the baby, and these carers proved to be really very good at this type of fostering too, and given that they had been very young parents, they could empathise with young teenagers trying to be parents.

However we placed a 14 year old girl with them. Let's call her J. After a few weeks I noticed a change in the male carer (A) he was wearing different sorts of clothes, more fashionable and stylish, and seemed "perkier" if that makes any sense. The female carer (B) was the same as always. Then they told me that they were buying a horse as (B) had always wanted one, and (J) was also interested in learning about horses. OK no problem there. However I learned a few weeks later that it was A and the girl J who were going to feed the horse, muck out the stable etc together and B was not involved. I asked about this and I noticed B looked uncomfortable, but I still didn't think very much about it, though was starting to have the "stirring of concerns" and then soon after I called in (without an appointment) and J was lying on the sofa with her head in A's lap and A didn't seem in the least embarrassed by my seeing this.

I should say at this stage that we always included in the preparation courses the issue of "safer caring" which was specifically about the fact that some of the young people we placed might have been sexually abused in the past and therefore have sexualised behaviour but as importantly they could make allegations against carers, and we therefore advised about "safer caring" in all respects.

When I saw J lying with her head in A's lap I knew of course that my suspicions had been confirmed. I asked her to leave the room and I challenged A about it and he said "oh we were just gaming about" and B said that J only wanted to be with A and never with her, and she didn't like this and she mentioned that J was always asking for cigarettes from A and he gave them to her, by this time she was 15.

I had a long meeting with both A and B and spelled out my concerns and I included my concern about A's change in clothing (by this time he had leather trousers!!) We worked out new arrangements and A was told that on no account was he to tend to the horse with J. Either the 3 of them went, or J went with B. There was to be no more physical contact and at this point B actually said "yes and that includes J running up to you and clinging on with her legs wrapped around you........." (!!!) I was really concerned by now, and talked with my manager about ending their registration as this male carer should not have to be warned about such matters and we agreed that we had enough evidence to remove the girl and seek to de-register them as carers.

However the following day we were contacted by another foster carer who had see A with J at the local swimming pool and they were in the sauna together with just towels draped around them...........and yes we moved the girl and de-registered them. We found out later that A and B split up (B) was a lovely woman and we all felt so sorry for her. We also heard that when J was 16 A began a relationship with her.

Sorry that was far longer than I intended.

You DO have cause for concern. You must record these matters (about the 7 year old girl and the teenage step-daughter) together with the porn issues, as you will need them if this matter gets to the family courts. Unfortunately it probably won't be sufficient to prevent the Judge making a Contact Order, but you have to do all you can to protect your own children. It may well be that your ex would never harm his own children but there is always that possibility. Sorry I don't want to cause you more concern but I needed to get my thoughts down.

You asked me about how you might teach your children to keep themselves safe and I noticed on the other thread there were several books recommended by the Safeguarding Team (I'm not sure if that's what they were called but they sent you a long e mail and the references to the books are in that e mail) Using books is the only thing you can do at their age as they are far too young to understand any kind of abstract concepts about "staying safe"

So sorry you are going through this.

jadeddazedandconfused · 27/02/2014 15:39

Hi just to let you know that a social services referral has been made. I am a bit freaked out. I have no idea what will happen, timescales etc, I can't find the safeguarding resource mentioned upthread. Thanks.

OP posts:
jadeddazedandconfused · 27/02/2014 15:55

I found the resource on the other thread.

OP posts:
horsetowater · 03/03/2014 13:22

Hi Jaded, any news? Have you posted on the EA thread? They really are the experts although it can get quite busy on there!

jadeddazedandconfused · 29/03/2014 08:51

Hi uodate: divorce is going through he's moving out next week and we are no further forward with regards to child contact. Social services got involved badly then disappeared and I can't speak to anybody other than council reception staff. I'm relieved beyond measure that he's leaving but there's still so much unanswered. I know ss doesn't see my family as a priority but it is making it difficult to move forward.
He is still gaslighting but I'm rising above it quite well knowing he'll soon be gone!

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