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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Gaslighting : ignore or confront?

131 replies

jadeddazedandconfused · 07/02/2014 15:39

Hi, I have just come to the realisation that I'm being gaslighting. I have split from husband but still sharing a home.
Over the years I have found lots of 'missing' things in odd places or even in the bin. Mostly it is small items of mine and the children, sometimes there are cost implications other times it's just annoying and slightly distressing because he always denied it or blamed our small children even when he's hidden things so high the children couldn't have done it.
Sometimes it's been important documents.

Recently when I asked him for something that had disappeared and I'd searched everywhere he produced it and said I'd not looked properly (I had) and he said 'if I was going to take o
Today I remembered how when he was bullied at school he took revenge by stealing from their bags & coats in the cloakroom. I believe The hiding /throwing away stuff is part of that old pattern but it makes me feel unsafe, not 100% sure how to tackle it.

Hundreds of times I have asked him not to touch /move/dispose of my /the children's things but when met with blatant denial it's hard to know how to deal with it. I can't lock everything away being don't know what he will choose next.

I have thought about getting a box and just saying anytime you're not sure what to do with something just put it in here for me to sort out but I feel trying to do things on the sly that won't help
I thought I could mention the bullying story he told me but I'm expecting him just to laugh it off as usual and tell me how ridiculous I am but at least he'd know I'm on to him.

OP posts:
jadeddazedandconfused · 09/02/2014 22:03

I think I'll just leave it and get on with the solicitors, I need to not get fogged with distraction, I will allude to it at some point so that he knows to be a bit more discreet.
He's nearly 50 not fucking 15 for fuck sake.
I can't believe how hoodwinked I was. Seedy fucker.

OP posts:
jadeddazedandconfused · 09/02/2014 22:06

Thanks all for being here for me, it's tricky to discuss all this with people it's creepy and embarrassing.

OP posts:
Want2BSelfemployed · 09/02/2014 22:07

just always have your phone ready on record in your pockect as he will slip up and say what he wants at some point. Get him drunk he may say it then! Yeah best not to confront! But try and be 2 steps ahead in getting evidence! Its human chess jaded!

jadeddazedandconfused · 09/02/2014 22:16

He's very very controlled. He never gets drunk to the point of slipping. I hope he does slip up but not so much that it damages me or the children.
Although tbh my brain is damaged by the farcical marriage and the constant rejection. My self esteem is on the floor right now :-(

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 09/02/2014 22:27

It's within your control to raise our self esteem, love

You can do this

AnyFucker · 09/02/2014 22:27

your

jadeddazedandconfused · 09/02/2014 23:08

Ok bed now, AF you are right of course.

Please see the message below, I originally asked him via email to 'set out his stall' so to speak, I didn't hear from him for nearly a month then I Confronted Him f2f on Friday and he replied wi a bizarre nonsense email, and this is my reply which I have just sent:

Hi

I have trouble understanding your email, the first two lines are legible then there's no clear direction.

To clarify : are you suggesting that it would be better for me and the children to find somewhere else to live and leave you in the house because it would be cheaper for you to support us from here rather than support us to stay here?

You talk about lump sums, ISA and savings, are these an either or? Instead of maintenance or on top of?

Furniture when? After the house is sold or now?

White goods when? After the house is sold or now?

Carry on paying the mortgage for who? Me and the children without you or for you alone?

If the housing association comes good with the opportunity for the children to remain in the home with me what you do you want to happen financially with your share of the equity and other assets namely the furniture?

Perhaps you could re-send your reply with each of your suggested scenarios clearly set out.

We need to be very clear here about what's happened and what is happening next.

I cannot continue in this house with you indefinitely. Your secrecy, lies, questionable sexual predilections plus the hiding and throwing away of things are intolerable and despite you saying you are happy living like this it's an unhealthy environment for us let alone the children.

For the sake of your role as a Father I would like to request that you seek help for your admitted addiction, I have no idea what it is about and whether it will escalate or has already but at this stage I have concerns, whether you respect those concerns is your choice.

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horsetowater · 09/02/2014 23:13

I think that's an excellent letter, assertive, to the point, very normal.

Well done.

Twinklestein · 09/02/2014 23:15

Hiya Jaded, I remember your previous thread. Indeed I've just read your latest update on it, I'm sorry I didn't see it at the time. Well done for being brave enough to go to the police, I'm sorry it was inconclusive.

I'm horrified by the developments on this thread. Euch.

I'm so glad you've ended it, I'm sure your self esteem will start to recover once you get shot of him.

Homebird8 · 09/02/2014 23:16

There is a court order I can use which. has him removed from the house if. His behaviour affects my mental or emotional health.

He is gaslighting you. If that is not aimed at affecting your mental and emotional health then I don't know what is. Can you not use the court order?

The porn side of things, if the children are in any way at risk of exposure, is another issue. Talk to the HV about it as she seems clued up. You might be able to use both things to secure your safety and freedom, and that of your children, from this man.

Twinklestein · 09/02/2014 23:20

Great email OP.

horsetowater · 09/02/2014 23:31

If he ever exposes the children to pornography then that's classed as child neglect. It's child sex abuse if he deliberately allows them to see it.

Want2BSelfemployed · 09/02/2014 23:33

So he wrote in email about he stay in house and you and dc leave? Wow! This email is gold. Please save it all in different places. His then gaslighting behaviours back up this wanting you out of the house.

I hope you find an end to this soon but your reply was totally amazing and despite his methods of trying to drive you crazy you clearly show you are grounded and strong.

I wish I knew what gaslighting was in vivo well the first few years. It was only when I learnt how to take control again by no contact and legal action it stopped! I hope this is soon for you too get as much legal help with this as possible police/solicitor/Social Services/womans aid too as they can support you advocate etc get as much support as you can through this.

Want2BSelfemployed · 09/02/2014 23:39

Horse is it enough to get injunction to get him out of house also? If he leaves the threads on the PC etc and jaded can screen shot is this enough evidence or exposure could happen?

Want2BSelfemployed · 09/02/2014 23:39

or of

horsetowater · 09/02/2014 23:54

When I did CP training a long time ago the analogy was that if porn 'videos' were left on the bottom shelf within reach of the children then that was neglect.

The Tech equivalent I would guess would be if he left a video on pause and the child was likely to click on it? You'd need to check with a solicitor.

NanaNina · 10/02/2014 15:18

This is my first post and so haven't read the entire thread but wanted to say something about the possible involvement of Social Services. I am a retired social worker/manager in Children's Services (a career spanning 30 years) and I note some posters have suggested involving them, to try to get your exH removed from the house. I don't think there is any way they could do this to be honest.

Firstly you would need evidence that he is harming the children (how old are they by way) and they would almost certainly suggest that you leave him with the children, so that they are safe. They might carry out an investigation (known as a S.47 investigation) where there is good reason to suspect that a child/ren is suffering significant harm or likely to suffer significant harm. IF they did this (and I say IF because social workers are absolutely inundated with work and because of all the budget cuts they are not even able to remove children from unsafe homes as they can't afford to look after them. Even IF they carried out an investigation I'm sure the ex could put on a good show of him being nothing other than a caring father. Unfortunately horsetowater things are not as simple as you might have been led to believe. There has to be hard and fast evidence that a child is being neglected or ill treated and leaving videos around or on pause is not going to provide such evidence.

Having said all that I am wondering what this Order is that you have in your possession (sorry it was probably explained upthread) Is it a "non molestation injunction" - if so does it have a "power of arrest" attached because if it doesn't, it isn't really worth very much to be honest, although you do say he could be removed from the house if he is affecting your emotional/mental health and this must surely be the case.

The trouble is there are no easy solutions even with injunctions because often these men will just return to the property and be 10 times worse because of having been removed, if you see what I mean.

I think your response to his e mail was very good and very rational but I don't think it is going to help, as you are trying to meet his irrationality with rationality and this never works. If he was able to be rational you wouldn't need to be communicating my e mail.

It seems you are in a Housing Assoc property - is that right? Are you joint tenants. I think you do need to consult a good family law solicitor without delay but the problem is as you are aware that there is no longer legal aid available for these private law matters (thanks to this govt) and getting the matter into the Family Courts would mean you either paying for this (costing a great deal) or representing yourself. Needless to say most people would shy away from that and this is the reason there are fewer private law cases going through the courts. It may be that the ex could afford to pay for legal representation and that would be the worst of all worlds.

I know he should move from the house but I don't think he's going to do this to be honest. Of course you should be able to stay there with the children but you are going to need help, because as you say your self esteem is very low, with small wonder as I'm sure this is all part of his plot to undermine you. He sounds potentially very dangerous.

I think after seeing a solicitor your best bet would be to contact Women's Aid (you can find the number if you google) as they are used to dealing with cases like yours on a daily basis. It may be that you and the children have to leave the property and go to a refuge, at least until the matters of property/finance have been sorted. I only say this because I don't think there is a cat in hell's chance that this bloke is going to leave. You are being emotionally abused and need to get away for your own sanity. Sorry I've just thought have you any family/friends with whom you could stay.

The other charities that are very good are CAB and SHELTER but I don't think you are going to be able to get anything sorted until you are away from this man, and leaving now doesn't preclude you returning and him leaving, but I think first and foremost you need some space from this man. IF you do take this route, please don't tell him - collect the necessary stuff and go (Women's Aid will help with this) I don't want to be alarmist but many men escalate their behaviour to causing severe harm (even death in some cases) when abused women say they are leaving.

Sorry if I am wide off the mark here but I am just trying to be realistic.

NanaNina · 10/02/2014 15:21

Sorry the second line of the second para is a bit ambiguous - I mean they will suggest that you and the children leave this man, not you leave and the children remain with him.

wontletmesignin · 10/02/2014 15:58

When i left my emtionally abusive ex, i contacted ss myself in order to make sure my decisions were all correct down every route i took.

They advised me to cease contact all together with my ds as it was clear me, my ds and my other dc were being emotionally abused.
They spoke to my older kids, who verified his behaviour.

I was offered accomodation through the police, but told them i was happy to stay (this house is rented in my name).

I have had every bit of support through every agency, including SS. I couldnt ask for anymore.
They have all helped make this go as smoothly as possible, and have offered me extra help if and when it is needed.

For years i stayed quiet about it all. I didnt realise how much help there was!

The first step was the hardest.

AnyFucker · 10/02/2014 17:52

wontlet

Sorry to jump on you unexpectedly, but you have you seen this blog ? child protection resource

it has been set up by a bunch of MN'ers who were struck by the lack of unbiased support for parents around safeguarding and the amount of scaremongering out there

no pressure at all, but I think a blog post about your positive experience with SS after years of hiding emotional abuse of you would be fantastic on there

pm me if you wish to know more x

jadeddazedandconfused · 10/02/2014 20:55

Hi nananina thanks so much for your long and thoughtful post. I don't have an order, I went to a family law drop in and was advised that I could obtain I think It's called an occupancy order.

Unfortunately I don't have any friends or family who would take us in, I have been considering women's aid for advice, the response from the police led me to believe that it is not currently a social services case.

On the face of things he is an excellent father, involved in all aspects of their care, he struggles to spend time alone with them in the house and I am very confident that he won't contest me for custody.

We are joint owners/tenants in a shared ownership property so we have a mortgage as well as landlords. I have been advised by the landlords not to leave the property while everything is being worked out.

I wanted to book solicitors appointment today but it was so busy at work I didn't get a chance. I mainly sent the email because I wanted to clarify his position/views prior to meeting the solicitors.

OP posts:
jadeddazedandconfused · 11/02/2014 08:07

Hi wontletmesignin thanks for sharing your story. What is your situation now? Do you/dcs have any contact with your ex? How long did it take for you to get yourself together again?

OP posts:
jadeddazedandconfused · 11/02/2014 08:07

Hi again twinklestein thanks for your message and support.

OP posts:
wontletmesignin · 11/02/2014 16:35

Youre welcome. No me and dc dont have any contact at all.
There is a non molestation in place so he isnt allowed to contact or go within 100 feet of me and my dc.

Social services advised that i stop contact between our ds and his df and that is what i done.

Me and the kids have flourished since he left. It has been a difficult ride, dont get me wrong. But it has been far easier than living just one week with him and his games!

I came together as soon as he left. I wasnt myself the whole time i was with him.
Same for my dc.
I am still building myself up again and it has been 3 months. But i am a lot stronger now than i ever could have been when with him.
I am only building up all of the parts he had took away. My self esteem, confidence, decision making etc.

I never shed a single tear for him, and not once have a missed him!

jadeddazedandconfused · 11/02/2014 20:27

wontletmesignin I'm so glad you and the kids are happy now. It is going to be hard having them on my own but like you I haven't felt like myself for years until I made the decision to end the marriage then straight away it was a relief. I have days where I can't stop singing and other days when I'm so angry I can't think straight and some despondency and doubts in between.
I absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt that I am doing the right thing. I can't believe how much he's been deceiving me and how much I ignored my gut because I thought I was paranoid and imagining things when all along he was playing me for a fool.

I feel so conned and ripped off and stupid but at least I'm getting out now. I didn't get a minute at work again to make solicitor appointment, I am hoping for some peace tomorrow. Things she quite strange at work with huge changes going on, the atmosphere is fraught at home and at work, trying times!

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