to those who stayed after OH had an affair...

[houmousandcarrotsandwich]

Brief history. ..
H was caught out (again! ) in December. Says it was only emotional, but has admitted to 2 kisses with 2 different people. This time I was done, but he refused to leave (I couldn't as 2 dcs and no where to go).

This time he has however been scared shitless he could loose everything.
At the moment I can do no wrong. He is giving me regular lie ins, doing more house chores, flowers, notes etc. And most importantly taken himself to counselling
We are also in the hysterical bonding stage.

now...I don't know what I want.

I'm still miles off forgiveness, still not wearing my wedding rings.
I can't help but think this is all an act to get back in my good books (is this change too good to be true?)
But..what if this how things stay? (am I being too hopefull/stupid? )
Will I ever forgive?

So to those who have walked in my shoes, is there sunshine after the rain? I would appreciate hearing your experiences x

[Quitelikely]

Such a shame, I do feel sorry for you. Firstly you need to understand that if you do what you have always done, you will get what you always got. I have found that statement to be very correct, especially in relation to men.

I know you have said he is trying but I cannot understand why you feel he won't cheat again just because you said he is pulling his weight more with the children and in the home?

He might be showing remorse - that he was caught.

Also your children will see this and it will be their template for future relationships. Yes this can vary but mostly patterns repeat themselves.

It's very hard to walk away when you love someone but I think in the future you will find the strength.

Good luck to you and your children I hope it all works out for you guys somehow

[shey02]

I stayed until the 2nd time. Then it was game over and as Quite says, it's the example that you set your children that made me go. They are teenagers now and are strong and wise and I know they will never suffer what I did, they are stronger than me. God knows how they would have suffered, what they would have learnt if we'd stayed in that situation.

[Twinkleandbunty]

Sod him getting counselling, how about some for you? And not in relation to your marriage, but for you.
Find out why you think you are so worthless that you'll put up with this crap.
Your self esteem is on the floor, you are allowing him to play you like a fiddle and your kids are witness to all this.
As PP said - this is the template for their own future relationships.
Please OP, have some self respect and kick him to the kerb.

[Isoneofusadog]

I'm in a very similar situation and asked my DH to leave 2 months ago. I found evidence of EA 18 months ago, and after being angry for a couple of weeks decided to try to move on. 7 weeks ago, he confessed (reluctantly and because of evidence) to a ONS and subsequently to another EA going back 5 years.

This on top of him being depressed and miserable to live with for years

I am now done. He is going to therapy to figure out why he did this but ultimately I think he is very selfish, insecure and passive so struggles to maintain a proper relationship.

I am too young (though still 35) to settle for that shit. Dd (6) and ds (4) handling brilliantly. All amicable so far and I feel free, light and happier than I have for years. I'd suggest separating and giving yourself space to think about alternative. While he is doing all the nice things you can't make a good decision. You could set a time period after which you'll decide meaning right now you only need exist and process your emotions (I've given myself a commitment not to make permanent decision until end if feb)

Thinking of you

[MsWinnieBaygo]

Exactly what Twinkle said

[houmousandcarrotsandwich]

Sorry you are going through similar shit isoneofusadog , it sucks!

In counselling, if we had some "time out" it was agreed 2 weeks (I wanted a month but was talked down to 2weeks by the counsellor, and to the condition he was allowed to come back at the end of the 2 weeks)

I agree counselling would be good but I don't know when I would have the time! Also I can't afford relate.
I did have a appointment for a phone assessment with my nhs mental health service for my area, but I couldn't face answering the phone that day . I'm not sure they would be able to help anyway as its a relationship issue. I've not had much luck with them in general in the past.

2 months ago I had made my mind up, it was over. But now, I feel like this is how it's probably how it's going to be, I need to accept my marriage is without fidelity and hope that he is changing

[Isoneofusadog]

Will accepting that your marriage is without fidelity enable you to be happy? Will you be 'allowed' to also kiss / have relationships with other men?

Two weeks is not enough time for him to complete counselling and resolve his issues (if he can) or for you to really have time and space to think it through. If you want more time then take it, more likely to find a way to be together happily in future if issues are properly resolved today.

I am very lucky as i can buy husband out of the kids home and pay mortgage on it by myself so finances are not a blocker. I think had that been an issue it can make it harder.

Ultimately I decidedly friends/sister were right and I deserve better. I felt internal peace that I was treating myself with respect even if he wouldn't.

[desperatelyseekingsolace]

houmous I don't think you need to accept anything of the sort.

I am not going to tell you you need to leave now or say you are being weak as I know how hard this is. The process will play itself out and sometimes that entails going through a lot of soul searching.

But what does concern me is that you are making yourself so passive in this process. You need to reclaim a sense of your own autonomy and self respect. Even if you ultimately decide to stay and personally I don't think it's the best approach but it's your life you need to reclaim some sense of control. I think you are, for totally understandable reasons, finding excuses not to do the counselling. You need to get your own head straight and work out what you want, rather than allowing this whole situation to just roll over you like a runaway train.

Wishing you the best of luck .

[AnyFucker]

OP, this is going to sound so harsh but you are not really his wife. He treats you like just one of a succession of women, it just so happens that you are the one providing domestic services and looking after his kids

If this is enough for you it makes me feel very sad indeed

[Badvoc]

Agree with AF.
You are coming across as a total doormat :(
You do have a day in your life. It doesn't have to be this way.

[Leavenheath]

Huh? You can't afford counselling for yourself but he can? How does that work then? Plus, why would you go near Relate if this is where the twitty counsellor works?

Can you clarify that bit about 'time out'? Do you mean that the counsellor talked you into agreeing that if you kicked him out, he had to be able to return after a fortnight?

[HelloBoys]

You snoop - he won't stop.

He is having his cake and eating it big time.

[HelloBoys]

and remember - the counsellor can't force him to stop only he can do that.

[HelloBoys]

I think he will hook you back in with the sweet talk and chores etc and THEN have affairs again.

I have to agree total doormat here. what do you do OP? work? friends? what do family/friends think of this idiot?

[mammadiggingdeep]

Op,

You say you're a long way from forgiving him...I'm confused though. He's at home. He's having sex with you? He's writing you notes and giving you lie ins. Sounds like you've forgiven him to me. When my ex cheated I asked him to leave and couldn't even stand the sound of his voice. I took time to think about which way we should turn. I had two dc under 2.5.

You're making excuses to stay with him, which is fine as its very hardto leave (I know). However, don't be surprised if he does it again and again.

[perfectstorm]

There are people who can cope with marriages without fidelity, as long as those marriages are respectful and loving in other ways.

Your husband has used your mental health as a weapon against you after the depression and self-harming was caused by his infidelity. He treats you with contempt unless he wants something from you.

Anyfucker is right. This is not a marriage. This is you as the sock-washer and child-carer he sometimes shags, who keeps his house for him while he behaves like a Casanova. He is using you. That's not a marriage.

And a counsellor who tries to get the wife of a compulsive philanderer to close her eyes to his sustained years of emotional abuse "for the sake of the children" should seek new employment. It is not 1953.

[hookedonchoc]

Ime, if someone has a bad habit and tries to make a change and put on an act of good behaviour, they are likely to lapse within 6-8 months. I'm sorry OP, I've read your threads and just don't think this man has enough desire to change for it to stick in the long term. He may well get better at not getting caught, perhaps that will be enough to keep you tied to him.

[houmousandcarrotsandwich]

Thank you all for your -honest- responses

to answer some of the questions. ..
Leavenheath if we both have individual counselling with relate it £90 a week. This seems alot of money to me. I think I would see a different counsellor (there are several at the local branch). The priority is his issues in my opinion.
Yes the 2 week thing was for him to leave for 2weeks then return to the home, having given me time to get my head straight. Part of why he was anti this was he didn't think I'd let him back in.

HelloBoys I work very part time (basically as im needed). I love my job but I am able to be generally a full time mum and this is what I want to be while dcs are so small, not at school etc.
my family are useless, provide me with no support.
Friends have been great, talked lits with them. None have really given an opinion on him (apart from saying he was silly) and none have said what I should/shouldn't do.

mammadiggingdeep I was like that. I couldn't stand the sight of him, I hated him. But after the first counselling and agreeing to survive Xmas, I turned to hysterical bonding as comfort to get me through. Then I guess I accepted him more and more.

So it looks like doormat for me

[Badvoc]

How incredibly sad :(
Because one day op....who knows when...but one day he will leave anyway and all your efforts will have been for nothing.
He doesn't love you, or your dc.
He doesn't respect you.
He doesn't value your life together.
Your choice to put up with it.

[Jan45]

It's all about him isn't it, poor wee soul can't keep it in his trousers and needs help, give me strength!

So what if he knew if you kicked him out you may not let him back in, would that come as a massive shock to him, what would he do in your shoes?

If you want to resign yourself to the tag of doormat that is up to you but honestly, you're worth more than that, everyone is telling you the same thing.

You actually need the counselling more than him, he will never change, this is his character. You, on the other hand can get help with your self esteem and low expectations, that can be worked on and made better, I wish you would put yourself first here, instead of him.

Btw, your friends will be calling him more than silly, perhaps not to your face though.

[Badvoc]

Yeah.
When did it start being called sex addiction and not adultery btw?
He must think all his birthdays have come at once.
Serial adulterer, getting lots of sex from both wife and other women....what a lovely life he has.
You on the other hand....

[mammadiggingdeep]

What jan45 said.

[mammadiggingdeep]

Just thinking about it- please excuse me if I'm being ignorant but really, when people cheat as he has done what "issues" has he got that can be resolved in counselling?? He's a selfish, self entitled twat and he already knows it. You know it. How pathetic that he is going to counselling to "resolve" his issues. Stay faithful or leave the relationship. It really is that simple.

I'm annoyed on your behalf. He's an absolute dickhead.

[perfectstorm]

You know what is most upsetting? When that useless counsellor pontificated about how vital it was to fake a good Christmas for the kids, everyone said he'd work on you, manipulate and normalise, and then you'd lose the rage you needed as fuel to kick the wankstain out. And then 5 weeks later, you post this:

I couldn't stand the sight of him, I hated him. But after the first counselling and agreeing to survive Xmas, I turned to hysterical bonding as comfort to get me through. Then I guess I accepted him more and more.

Please speak to your GP, and tell him or her how desperate you feel. Please. You deserve so much better than this - your kids deserve so much better than this. You need good individual counselling to empower you, because he's ground you down beneath his disgusting, entitled little feet until being his skivvy is all you feel you're worth. And that is just the most unspeakable bullshit.

Your friends won't say what we are because they don't want you to avoid them, for badmouthing the piece of shit you're unfortunately saddled with. But when you are finally rid of him, believe me, they'll say as we are. They already will be to one another.

[Leavenheath]

I disagree the priority is his issues.

Your priority should be you and your life in the future. From this all things follow if you intend to be the primary carer for your children.

Why not forget about Relate altogether? It doesn't have a good reputation on Mumsnet and the woeful experience you had with that counsellor is not unusual if others' posts are to be believed.

What about seeing if you can access some free NHS counselling? Or contacting the mental health team yourself again?

Your friends are trying their best not to say anything because it's obvious you're staying put and they don't want to cause a rift with you by challenging what they probably think are terrible decisions. Either that or the more unlikely (but possible) scenario is that they've also been trained to put up with terrible behaviour in men in exchange for a roof over their heads and help bringing children up.

Something, sometime in your past has trained you to think this is all you deserve in life- and to overlook how that outcome is going to affect your own children in their future relationships.

I think you owe it to them and yourself to find out what that was and start to challenge it and change your life and all your outcomes.