I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?

[BunnyLebowski]

I was going to name change but fuck it.

I have no friends. None. Not one.

I have no social life. I haven't been on a proper night out in years.

I am a SAHM and pregnant with DC2. We live in a city where we have no family. Just me and DP. Every night. On the sofa watching box sets. We have become far too co-dependent and I am filling up with resentment about it .

I had awful experiences at both school and uni with groups of girls who I thought were my friends and have ended up quite damaged and I think self-protective because of it.

I am a good person. I am kind and thoughtful and a good listener. I love company and really miss laughing with a friend over silly things.

However I have been told many times that I am intimidating. I really don't mean to be. Resting bitch face maybe?! I am smart and witty but also sarcastic, intolerant of idiots and am maybe just a wee bit judgemental. If anyone has seen Cougar Town I think I'm a bit like Ellie .

I am a wannabe 50's pin-up who drinks whiskey and quotes films with probably irritating regularity. I find it easier to talk to men in social scenarios (mainly because DP's friends are the only people I see in a social setting) but I haven't connected with anyone as a proper friend.

I don't like a lot of the designated 'girly' activities. I hate shopping. I hate romcoms and pink wine. I would rather eat my own head than go out clubbing in a big group of girls. I don't watch soaps or I'm a Celebrity. Hen dos bring me out in hives.

I made myself go to baby/toddler groups with DD1 and I hated every minute. As much as I love my DD I don't want to talk just about babies and BLW etc which is the experience I had. Competitive parenting everywhere.

In the past 5 years I have met 2 people who I initially thought I might be able to forge a friendship with.

One is a complete drama llama who dramatically declared herself an alcoholic then decided she wasn't and now gets drunk and rants on FB most nights. And once made a pass at DP. Needless to say she's off the list.

Person No.2 is someone I thought I had a lot in common with (50's clothing and kitsch etc) but is very much a Mimi and turns out has at least mild homophobic and racist tendencies .

I say hello to people on the school run but many of the mums seem quite cliquey (could be me projecting because of my bad experiences) and besides how do you turn a school run hello into a friendship??

When I see people on FB having big get-togethers or checking in on their sofa with their friends and wine I like I positively seethe with envy. Recently I have started getting really upset about the whole situation.

I have this vision of living somewhere where I make friends with a group of the neighbours and we have raucous nights in around the table laughing and listening to music. Sad much?? .

How can I make friends? Are there any people out there like me? At 33 am I destined to be this sad twat for the rest of my days? Has anyone been in a similar situation and changed it?

Alternatively are there any rent-a-friend websites?!

If you have made it to the end of this pathetic rant for you.

Ah Bunny, I have liked you from afar ever since I first clocked your username all those years ago. The Big Lebowski has been my favourite film for about 15 years now. I often quote it

I found myself nodding along to your op. I am 31, a pinkhaired, geeky, metal head, weirdo twat (I love kitsch and the 50s/60s pin up style and delved into it myself a few years back but wasn't girly enough to keep it up).

I am generally socially awkward with new people/situations but get a couple of whiskeys down my gullet and I open up, chat with all kinds and crack a few funnies along the way. Which is a feat in itself as my humour tends to be on the darker side, sarcastic with a splattering of innuendos and Simpsons quotes thrown in.

So I don't have that much of a problem meeting new acquaintances when I do actually venture out of my house, it's the keeping in touch and not letting the friendship fire sputter out that I am totally shite at.

Most of the people on my fb list (and there are only about 60) I have not seen in 2 or more years. I have one good friend and The Mister that I see regularly, that is it.

I chat to a handful of the school mums but I mostly keep myself to myself. It's a very small school and in a quite multicultural affluent area. I probably get a couple of cat's bum mouths when I rock up in my Lamb of God shirt but in all honestly I don't give a fuck. When I do make small talk I am friendly and polite.

So yeah, I guess what I and seemingly many others on this thread is that you are not alone in your situation. And it's cool to read that you have made some sociable steps already.

If I were not on the otherside of the world I would meet up with you. You seem to be my type of person

Bunny and BearsBeets, I could have written your posts (except for the pink hair, I'm between colours right now, the joys of breastfeeding, huh?).

And yea to school run hell, I'm torn between struggling to make an effort (difficult when I don't speak "haircuts and holidays") and questioning whether it's worth struggling to cultivate friendships when I clearly have little in common with anyone.

On that note, anyone wanting to talk MMA or H.P. Lovecraft who doesn't min keeping 9 month old hours, I'm over here... waves hand

Bunny you sound great, and I am judgmental and cooler than everyone else too. Also a sahm watching box sets with DH every night. I am between Manchester and Leeds, so not a million miles away. Will PM you.

I did a Myers Briggs personality test awhile ago and that gave me a short term lift.

In the right group I flourish and admire many people for having opposite traits. The whole mother & baby group just did n't suit my way of thinking (my first MN post in 2005 was AIBU to hate going to M&T groups). My top tips are:
Go to the active groups, like swimming, rather than the small talk ones.
Ditch the groups and take baby to museums, galleries etc - when Exeter museum closed for refurb I cried! My girls treat the Eden Project like a local park.
The Big Scream - daytime cinema, baby's welcome too.

I need help now as a SAHM during term time. The best thing I've done recently was a trip round a water treatment plant, it was funny and interesting but I would have loved to have had some company to pretend to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle with.

Ow! Bunny I'll be your friend, you sound right up my street!

and have ended up quite damaged and I think self-protective because of it

My only comments is I thunk that its worth looking again at what happended when you were a young un, and how this affects relationships today???

we carry our bagggage with us like a fucking ten ton rucksack, if this is bothering you I strongly advise you get some therapy OP

as it might be that you have a too fast reaction to people???

and you are NOT the only person who feels like this, SAHM is a hard and lonely job XXXX

Wow, Bunny you sound excellent.

I hate anything girly, I hate doing the things most people seem to think of as fun, I'm a high functioning lefty introvert who loves art and culture, rarely leaves the house my winged eyeliner, and would never in one hundred million years watch a rom com.

I feel really uncomfortable with the 'girly' aspects of being pregnant, why am I supposed to dumb down just because I'm going to give birth in a few weeks? My best friend lives over 5 hours away, it sucks.

On the plus side, my Resting Bitch Face means that not one single person (outside 2 close relatives) has tried to touch my massive bump.

Let me raise you, and everyone else who feels like this, a glass of single malt. We're not alone.

TawdryTatou I would just like to say "resting face of a grieving cod" has made me giggle like a loon every time I've thought of it since. Going to use.

I see CailinDana and Aurynne's points, Bunny, and while I sympathise with your current loneliness, I think your last response to Aurynne was unpleasant and unfair. You did post at length on an internet forum bemoaning your loneliness and asking how to make friends, and in response she posted a couple of thoughtful responses which were not character assassinations, but efforts to make you see your friendship problems in a different light. Now you seem to have cast her as one of the bullies that blighted your teens, when she probably wrote the single most insightful post on the entire thread.

It's lovely that you feel cheered by the other posts on the thread, and there's nothing at all wrong with a bit of internet anonymous ego massage from time to time, but I think you should at least consider what she said, rather than get defensive.

I hear you absolutely on not compromising your essential identity in order to make friendships. (I agree with you, for what it's worth. I make friends seldom and carefully, and I haven't made any where I've lived for the past year, because I'm currently a full-time writer who sees no one, and those few I have met, via local toddler groups, have wanted to discuss TV, diets and child development, which bore me to tears. My true friends are scattered all over the world, as we move around a lot.)

I also think your posts here show a significant 'split' in how you think about yourself.

On the one hand, you say your wonderfulness is a 'fact', and present yourself as a cool, hard-drinking, wise-cracking 50s pin-up type, whose chief friendship problem is that you can be intimidating and judgemental. On the other hand, you also present yourself as a lonely, bored SAHM who does nothing but resentfully watch box sets with your husband and become depressed by other people's Facebook updates. Which is it? Or is the truth somewhere between the two? Would you want to be friends with the lonely, bored, TV-addict SAHM you are describing, or would you write her off as uninteresting and banal?

I think you can be that interesting person inside, but not have much of an outlet for it. I also think I'm intelligent, quirky, arty and sarcastic; I also watch telly with DP most evenings. I love clothes, but I rarely dress up and go out. I'm creative and would love to be in a band, going to galleries all the time, going to arty cinemas, staying up till 4 am talking about literature over whisky. But I can't - because I have small DC, no family support, our money goes on nursery fees and mortgage, and after work/childcare or both all day, I'm knackered.

That is just what it can be like at this stage of life and you can find yourself an isolated billy no mates who doesn't get out much. It doesn't mean who you are has just vanished though.

Hi I agree with bookroomred that you were pretty mean to Aurelyne (spelling sorry) who was trying to help and look at it from a different perspective.
You do sound scarred from childhood bullying, I know I would be., as problems with adult friendships has affected mr deeply, and it seems like your 'look' including 50's make-up etc is partly an armour - not sure why you say you are not a girly girl, as you love 50's fashion and make up.
You seem like a normal person to me, as nice or not nice as anyone else who comes along.
glad you are going to make an effort to make real friends now but don't discount other mums. Talking about children can be tedious, but it is a stage of life that is easier to go through if you have other friends 'going through' the same thing. And as others have said once the small talk is done, underneath you will find people from all walks of life and yes who also like art, museums, galleries etc. You will find party animals with outrageous pasts, lovely Christians, people who have a crush on Lenin (of communist Russia fame) people running arts events and fashion house bosses with a degree in physics... All examples of mums I know. It takes a while to get to know people properly.
I don't have many close friends from DC's school but am friendly enough so that I get to go out once in a while and form closer friendships if that is what happens.
Good luck with everything

That's exactly it QueenThora.

I have no outlets for the many sides of my personality and the numerous things I'd like to do.

Like you I love getting glammed up and going out: I simply don't have anyone to go out with.

The staying in and talking over whiskey I was doing with DP pre-pregnancy and it was fun but it's still not a break from real life.

I think I put all my energies into our relationship and for many years that relationship was enough to fulfill all my needs but now I definitely want my life with DP and my own life outside the house.

Hopefully the ball is rolling now though . I feel great today!

Yes you can lose yourself quite a lot with young children to look after.

OP, I haven't read the rest of the thread because I am at work, but from reading it I'd LOVE to be friends with you.

I'm very girly but also a bit like you. Prefer being friends with men. Hate crap TV. Hate hen dos (make excuses to get out of them) and I have been known to run for my life in the school playground to escape a coffee morning. I also find it hard to make friends since my old friends scattered to the wind.

If you're a bit like me the best way to bond is while pissed. it takes down your natural barriers :)

I am sure this is useless advice, but just a bit of support. You sound far less annoying than most people!

(I have a theory that people will small numbers of friends are just selective and am sticking with that) remember you only need to bond with one person and it opens up the world. It's not easy when you dont have childcare.

Good post BookroomRed - I think you perhaps put it more helpfully than Aurynne. I see a lot of myself as I was a few years ago in what you describe.

I also thought, while we're on this armchair-psychology-over-the-internet kick, that it was interesting that Bunny read Aurynne's first post as a suggestion that she compromise her identity. Doing a bit of tedious small talk and being patient with others' unappealing traits may or may not turn out to be worth your time investment, but it's not going to "compromise your identity" unless your identity is pretty fragile. It sounds like something a teenager would say.

Hi Bunny I am not too far from you, I'm in Halifax!

I don't live where I grew up, so while I have acquaintances, I don't have a best friend or anything, as everyone seems to have other friends already.

I hate the school yard and making polite conversation, I find it very stressful. I can be very quiet until you get to know me, and I can be very sarcastic but people just don't get me!

I was bullied all through high school and find it hard to trust people too.

I love shopping, but don't have the money to do it! And I prefer to shop alone anyway, so wouldn't drag friends along :o

I don't drive but could get the train to Leeds if you want to meet sometime.

TawdryTatou...resting face of a grieving cod ...

I think I am your resting face twin, except I have jowls too

Feel the same as lot on this thread. I still remember the hellish mothers' group session about 5yrs ago where they talked entirely about what colour tiles one of them should have in their new bathroom. And I once tried to bring up the vaccination debate in the hope that although it was related to babies it might actually allow some adult-level conversation...I could almost see the tumbleweed blowing around.

Take up the ukulele - seriously! I'm useless at baby groups etc. too, but since I moved to a new town joining a ukulele club has been the one thing that's given me a social life. There's bound to be a group near you - it's easy to play, very social, there's a good mix of the sexes, and the people tend to be friendly, quirky nerds. Very 1950s too! :)

Thing is, idlevice, vaccination is a very contentious personal issue. Bringing it up among people you don't know very well is like leaning in for a full on snog with someone you've just started flirting with at work. Just because they didn't want to discuss it doesn't mean they were dull or stupid. Your topic was inappropriate for the setting. Talk about tiles isn't going to set the world on fire. No one actually thinks it's a fantastically interesting topic. What people were doing was sussing each other out using a simple uncontentious topic. It's the "flirting" stage of friendship - that slightly silly awkward stage where you're getting the measure of each other. It's only later when you both feel more accepted and secure that you bring up a more difficult topic as then you are both more likely to feel ok about being honest, even if you don't necessarily agree.
Basically friendshil takes time and effort. If you're not willing to invest those things then you're not going to get much back.

Well, that sounds quite annoying and judgey to be honest idlevice. I have three degrees, I'd still go batshit insane if I had to talk about "serious ishoos" the whole bloody time. They probably just didn't want to go there. Christ, I wouldn't - a highly emotive subject in a group that doesn't know each other well? Have you seen what happens here on vaccination threads? Thank god for bathroom tile colours (a subject on which you catch me at my best...)

Tbf to idlevice I wouldn't have a CLUE what to say about tiles "I like white ones..." "Oh..." And would welcome a conversation about vaccinations. I am totally crap at small talk though I do try. This thread is actually really helpful as I am starting to realise I probably freak people out at playgroups etc.

But I don't know what I could do about it. I dunno if it's the kinda thing you can learn. And it would feel a bit fraudulent to me. Faking an interest in lampshades to get the reward of better conversations in future. Is that what people do? Genuine question.

Auryyne - I don't think your posts are very helpful. Everyone is different and just because you're a bit unusual and don't always fit that does not necessarily mean you aren't a decent person. And it does not follow that if you're like that you need to change yourself which is how your post comes across.

You are basically saying well if you don't have loads of friends then there is something wrong with YOU. And that isn't always the case. If you think a little differently from most people around you then it can be difficult for them to understand you.

Yeah, IMO you can learn - it's just whether you want to. If I'm really stuck and know nothing at all about the topic, I usually just say "How does that work then?" and prepare to look shocked/amused. And I usually find out something at least mildly interesting, even if it's about X Factor. Then I have one interesting X Factor fact from a few minutes convo. Beats having to watch the bloody thing.

The fact is most people have their "candyfloss" interests, be it bathroom tiles, make-up or X Factor. Life would be very, very dull if it was all red meat.

Bunny, thank you so much for starting this thread. You sound fab. I'm in Leeds (Headingley) and am positively desperate for some irreverant, dark-humoured, witty, whisky-downing fun. I haven't lived here long and am crap at playgroups, shocking on the school run, warm and funny on the inside but have been giving up and stay in every.single.night. There's loads in Leeds which keeps exciting me and I want to see and do. DH and I do try to drag the kids along kicking and screaming but it's so much pressure to try to have all your interaction from just 4 people (us 2 and the kids). I need my own friends - and badly. Please consider this my job application.