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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsinherownplace · 10/01/2014 17:57

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
MinkBernardLundy · 21/01/2014 11:15

fraggle i think parent do worry a lot about financea adn stability (I know mine did) but do your parents know the full extent of his nastiness? When mine finally knew the truth, they stopped pressuring me to go back and started helping me to cope on my own.

As for him saying you took his kids away. He doesn't own them. They are not possessions.

What he needs to understand although probably never will, is that abusing the mother of your children while they are in the house, is child abuse.

TinselTownley · 21/01/2014 11:30

It is child abuse, isn't it? Even though we instinctively throw themselves in front of them and take the brunt, like we would were it an oncoming car, it filters through.

Oddly, I've never really considered the hurt my children feel just through seeing me abused. Just that - if I'm the target - they're not.

fraggle I am so sorry it's so hard right now. You gave some peace and respite to your children now he's mincing and wheedling his way out of supporting them. Immature, irresponsible, self-serving tosser.

Fraggletits · 21/01/2014 11:50

Thank you mink and tinsel. So bloody difficult all of this. I have told my parents how bad things have been, I've had a kind of 'pull yourself together, don't be ridiculous' attitude from my father who himself was a abusive at times to my mum and me - he's also seemed understanding too. My mum is more supportive but in denial about any abuse towards her from my dad and will ultimately side with his way of thinking.

I am now very very aware of repeated cycles of family abuse through the generations. I think my dad's dad was abusive too. It's building the strength to break that cycle for my girls which I will.

MinkBernardLundy · 21/01/2014 13:52

I am now very very aware of repeated cycles of family abuse through the generations. I think my dad's dad was abusive too. It's building the strength to break that cycle for my girls which I will.

good luck fraggle. you can and you will, I am sure.

but yes this is part but by no means all of what makes it child abuse- they are learning that this is the way they should behave/allow themselves to be treated and so it has long lasting consequences. I hold on to the hope that if this is true then seeing your mother leave an abusive relationship must teach them that this behaviour is not acceptable and that they should expect better and there are choices.

Some day I hope I might have an rs that is more like previous healthy rs I have had so that they can see how normal adults interact- yes there may be disagreements and grumpiness but underlying it all is respect.
Then they will know it is not a choice between abuse or single there is a third way.

sus14 · 21/01/2014 14:45

Hi all, I've been a lurker for a while but not posted on here before. I posted on a separate thread just before half term when i was about to make an escape, but dh found out and promisted to change and I stayed. It did get better for a while - but now he is still on antids - just started new job and again was hurling abuse at me last night - he actualy woke me up by throwing my books around - all because I didn't kiss him goodnight - after a weekend of shouting at me and dd (5).

It's been like this for her entire childhoold

I ended up calling the police last night and they made him leave and go to my parents. The a policewoman called me this morning and said - why the hell haven't you got out - this has bene going on for ages. She was briliant as she just told me off and said i had to leave. I think it's what i needed.

Just packed some stuff and taken it to my parents who live nearby. DD has an afterschool club i take her too and then i will tell her we are living there for a few days.

Police reckon i could get him to move out, I'm not sure. But I am hoping that he will realise that dd should be in her home. But whether he has the ability to go and find somewhere to rent i don't know.

However as my parents don't drive and they don't live that close it means i have to take dd to school and back and it means i can't work. I've already called in sick today. My dad reckons I hsould go intomorrow and explain all. What have other people done in this situation.

For now I feel that the main thing is to get out, and not to go back. I find it very very difficult to leave my house, and my life , I am sure everyone is like that. But now he has started to shout uncontrollably at my dd i can see her entire life panning out how mine has been the last 5 years.

please tell me i am doing the right thing here. 5 years of abuse - physical for first 2 hyears unti l i went to police- then 3 years of verbal espcecially over the past year . The summer was unberarable. And all of it either in front of dd or late at night after i have gone to bed - and then i can't sleep and it's hard to work. Ranting on and on and on. And then if i say i am leaving ,tears and apologies and promsied to change. but he never does - it's getting worse too.

sus14 · 21/01/2014 14:48

just wanted to add that when he is nice - he is my best friend in the world - it's the usual pattern of up and down. I already miss him so much. But last night he called me a rancid * (as I havea urine infection). At the weekend he told me my mum didn't love me. What's that all about. It's the things he says even more than the shouting.
and then after a few nights of this, when i really can't take any more and so i flip out - he's all nice and makes dinner and is kind and hten i stay.

TheSparklyPussycat · 21/01/2014 15:07

sus You Are Doing The Right Thing.

I survived till my DC were grown, so can't advise re the rest - however I think the police are right - someone more knowledgable will be along in a bit I'm sure.

Fraggletits · 21/01/2014 18:23

Well done for calling the police Sus, you totally did the right thing. What I'm learning is their abusive side is the real them, and the 'best friend in the whole world' side is the mirage. It isn't logical that it's the other way round, how can you be a lovely person with a horrible, cruel side? That cancels out the lovely part straight away as far as I'm concerned.

Totally know where you're coming from x

redmapleleaves · 21/01/2014 18:40

Sus so sorry to hear this but you are, as sparkly says Doing the Right Thing.

Our DCs were older than yours when I left, but I think the key thing is to do what feels right for you. You are their stable centre. You have put up with the battlezone for so long. Whatever helps you to feel your control coming back is what is right.

I also think thats the case with work. If telling them you have a bad case of flu is what gets you a few unpressurised days while you bounce back, - or going in and speaking with a supportive manager so someone is in the know and supportive long term (?could you change your hours to take DC to school and back? Isn't there a parental leave law where if they are under 6 the employer has to be flexible? Don't know this for sure). Dealing with something this big is like dealing with a bereavement. Just because our FWs have always minimised our needs, doesn't mean we need to.

For me telling the police, and having them visibly shocked and physically supportive helped me feel this was real. May it be so for you too.

fraggle I'm sorry its so hard now. It took me several goes to get out.

I too am finding it really hard with cycles of abuse over generations, and for me it feels hard to feel I'm on solid ground, not being oversensitive everywhere. But I think it matters so much we say to ourselves it isnt us.

Only just read the really interesting discussion upthread about emotions. This numbness and now a thawing is so much the case for me too. What I have found absolutely amazing/lifechanging is EMDR (www.emdr.org.uk/default.asp?nc=6792&id=25) therapy. It is recommended in the US for post-traumatic stress/flashbacks/rape/veterans/traumatic experiences in early childhood, and I think available on the NHS in some areas. I've had several lots of counselling over the years, some with some very good counsellors. This emdr has been light years better, faster, much deeper working than the best of the rest. The theory is that when you have something very sudden/upsetting happen to you it floods your system and stays unprocessed by your brain in the way that the rest of life gets processed through sleep. Over time as the old memory gets triggered you feel the original emotions again and again. In emdr, in a very quick session, they help you to recall the old experience but from the perspective of the adult now, while tapping on your knees in turn. This helps both sides of the brain to process it, and to change the perspective. I'm not a scientist so that's my explanation. What I can say from my perspective is how much and how deep it helps. I always felt in control, not a long drawn out process, changes came after the first session. (Not on commission honest.)

CharlotteCollinsinherownplace · 21/01/2014 21:38

I really feel for those of you who saw abuse in your own families growing up. I was thinking today how much support I had from so many different people (parents, pastor, friends, brother, two threads-full of people on MN!) just to get myself a new place to live. I cannot imagine how difficult it would have been if I'd had to battle against my parents too.

So be kind to yourself, Fraggle. Freedom will be yours in the end. We are still with you and we still believe in you.

OP posts:
Clouddancer · 21/01/2014 22:11

sus, on the work side, I think it is a case of how supportive your line management is, and how flexible you can be. I did tell my line management, but not in detail (though I was practically hyperventilating whenever I had to talk about it, so maybe it was obvious). I just said I thought they should know. My job is semi-flexible in so far as certain things I need to be in the office for, others I can do at home when dc are asleep. There are certain things, ie travel, I just can't do as a single parent, at the moment, maybe when they are older.

I did say when I told them that I would endeavour to keep doing my job to the best of my abilities, etc. As it happened I did need to juggle my work around at one point and take leave, and because it was odd days, rather than a block, I was upfront about why.

I think if you need time off, take it. I found that work gave me a sense of normality, because, quite frankly, no-one cared. They care about the job. I mean that in a good way, not that I work with a heartless bunch, but it remained professional; also I did say I wished to keep personal stuff private. Over the long term, as I had a heavy workload and the personal stuff was stressful, there has been an effect. I feel like I need time off.

In your case, I would be tempted to see if there was a way of changing your hours and working patterns around the school run. This will not be the situation forever, as you will in time sort your own living arrangements. But they may be able to accomodate your short term difficulties. Equally, keep your health and wellbeing needs in mind, if you need to take time off.

Clouddancer · 21/01/2014 22:12

Oh, and yes, you are doing the right thing. Very much so.

MinkBernardLundy · 21/01/2014 23:35

sus well done. Thanks

If you feel your work will be supportive, and you would hope they would be in any marital break up, tell them and see if you can flex your hours.
The school doesn't have a breakfast club or similar? Or a childminder if you think it will be longer term. i know this kind of thing is an expensive hassle to organise but the more sustainable and manageable you can make maintaining your life away from FW the easier it is to stay out.

It is very empowering to manage just fine witout the pittance of help they offered.

If you cannot manage work then look into parental leave. not sure if it stops at age 5 or 6. It is unpaid but at least your job is safe.

Also if you have not done so, contact a sol about getting an exclusion order(?) to get him out of the house.
And as soon as you can face it start making moves to secure your finances, sort out tax credits (which will help with any additional child care costs) and CSA.

But mostly be kind to yourself. you have done a good thing for your DD.

thatsnotmynamereally · 22/01/2014 04:02

Hi all, sorry I haven't updated for ages, I've been meaning to but TBH I am reluctant to report that not much has changed... all has been totally swept under the carpet, for good reason over the holidays while the kids were home from uni as I didn't want any showdowns, and they both went back last Monday so still fairly early days for it just being the two of us here. H is on anti-d's so he thinks that is his big effort made, he thinks the only thing wrong with our relationship is that we don't have sex enough or more specifically I don't make enough effort in that area. He thinks I need to get onto viagra to solve MY problem but I am biding my time, sort of going along with agreeing with him to keep things smooth. Just like Lundy says the anti-d's seem to make him a 'happy abuser'.

I saw a solicitor on 3 Jan which was underwhelming, nothing I hadn't known already. He seemed to be interested in setting out the case for going for more money from H due to the fact that my income would drop (duh?) and that hit home to me that I do feel I rely on H for financial stability. So I have found myself wondering if I really have it so bad! But I know it is... and I know it cannot go on. But he relies on me so much and I really think it will destroy him if I just dump him in a vicious way, I want him to think it is in his best interests to go. I'm just creating a separate life for myself right now, working very full time and not actually home very much. I have a terrible chest infection now, feeling really down, I knew it was coming on last week but have kept going. Not too much sympathy from H-- I still am expected to make him a cup of tea when I get in from work even though he gets in before me and I do all the cooking, cleaning and etc. Anything 'nice' he does (ie put dishes in dishwasher today, just a few) he reminds me of over and over! so same old sh^t. I've put up with this for years so most would say I have created this behavior... but my attempts to extract myself from it have been futile so far.

Sus your H sounds awful and you have definitely done the right thing. It's just sad that he won't see it this way. Stay strong!

MinkBernardLundy · 22/01/2014 13:26

Thanks get weel soon thats.
and nice to see you.

MinkBernardLundy · 22/01/2014 13:26
TinselTownley · 22/01/2014 14:54

Mink thank you for brightening my day. I, quite literally, spat coffee on my keyboard. Ye wee scamp, ye!

CharlotteCollinsinherownplace · 22/01/2014 21:58

thats, don't feel bad for having nothing to report - it's very good to hear from you and know you're safe and just in same old same old. What you say about dumping viciously re making him think it's his idea - well, ye-es, but how about dumping matter-of-factly? I think your FW will make a good show of feeling destroyed, but won't let himself actually feel hurt. It could be hard to convince him he doesn't want you - who would make his afternoon cup of tea?? He probably gets loads of benefits at your expense. But it's your life and your call, of course.

OP posts:
FairyFi · 23/01/2014 11:55

good to hear from you thats hope that chest infection clears up buggers off very soon.

You are having the right thoughts around the separation, thinking the positive things to make it different. You'll get there you really will, despite feeling a bit overwhelmed at the mo, keep those thoughts they will take you out when you are ready, and not so poorly. Sending you strength in bundles and lots of (((hugs))) xx

sadsaddersaddest · 23/01/2014 13:43

Hello everyone. I hardly ever post because I am burying my head in the sand and pretending the situation is normal - even though I know it isn't.

Sus of course you did the right thing. I hope you are OK today.

sus14 · 23/01/2014 14:33

Hello all. So I did it, me and dd have spent the last 2 nights at my parents, which I have found very hard, being away from home, regardless of the constant and up and down texts I am getting.

Today he is adamant that dd is being damaged by being away from home, and so we are going back, and he is going to my brothers for one night, and then back to his family for the weekend. However he has just started a new job and his family live 100s of miles away so I am not sure what he will do next week.

I think that when he sees dd he is getting very upset, which I turn makes her upset. As wih me she is fine. But I have spoken to her teacher anyway.

I am feeling awful but when I analyse it its about the pain that he is feeling - and tells me about- and I am so worried about his job as its a very good one he got after a year of unemployment. If he doesn't keep it, he cannot live nearby, which is awful for both him and dd. I have offered to transfer our savings to him so he can go and rent for a spell, my dad has even offered to pay his rent rather than have him live with them!

I am finding that distance is making me more resolute though. My entire being cries out for him but I know it is just for what we could have had, and what it was like when he was in a nice spell, not the reality of never knowing when the next anger would come from- Monday
Night was awful, by itself, and I think back to our holiday when he was screaming at me i front of dd on a daily basis, spitting at me i front of her, even throwing a glass of water over both of us once. It's just never going to stop.

sus14 · 23/01/2014 14:35

I feel so sad for him but then I think- he didn't have to do those things, he's had 5 years of chances. He did this, not me. But I do care for him so I feel sad.

sus14 · 23/01/2014 14:37

And I just remembered that if I ever shout back at him, or even am remotely short tempered, then its my hormones. Yes, of course it is .

TinselTownley · 23/01/2014 18:13

Sus, poor you. I know just what you mean about longing for what you could have had and the peaceful spells. I also know how hard it is to accept that those fleeting times were not worth all the pain and abuse.

Not only will it never stop, it will get worse.

From one broken loving yet pragmatic soul to another, take care. You are doing entirely the right thing even though it hurts like hell.

tweedlezee · 23/01/2014 21:30

Well done Sus. One step at a time and keep being kind to yourself.

The change in my son since I left FW is immense. He listens, is generally a lot happier and stronger. He seems to know he can say whatever he wants with me and I will listen. We now have these funny argument/shouty things where we both go "blahblahblah" then smile at each knowing we have got what we needed to off our chests and now we can move on. It is only now I am seeing how similar we are.
DD is struggling a bot more. She spoke to FW on the phone and he was all like "I love you, I miss you" etc. I had phone on loudspeaker, not so I could hear but so DS could talk too. DS isn't bothered about speaking to his Dad at all. He seems very on edge when going to stay with his Dad and always comes back starting every sentence with "My daddy...".
He compared some things we do the other day and I was amazed by own response. I said "Wow, isn't it wonderful how people can do the same thing differently. Choice is such a wonderful ting" DS smiled happily.
FW's next manipulation appears to be through DD so I am going to bring up in mediation how he needs to be the adult and that telling DD how much he misses them and asking them if they miss him is not constructive. Instead positive language is essential. He will hate that but I can shut the door on his arguments...literally!

Sus Good luck and don't do anything you are not comfortable with. Trust your instincts.