Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I've blocked him on FB, in all forms. I have the privacy settings pretty high on it. I don't put anything on FB that I wouldn't want dragged into court, that's my dividing line, really. I just regularly check to see if he's started a new account, as he's done it before. If I find one, then I block that one as well.

I don't think I've said anything here either that couldn't stand up in court.

And yes, that poetic justice had me chuckling for quite some time.

waves as delurks......

curt you can open a "basic bank account" without a credit check and get all of your "private" money sent to that one. Banks never advertise them as they don't make much money out of them but they all have to offer them.

here is a link...www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/basic-bank-accounts that would help you

I was in the same position as you...have been living out of my own account for over 2 years now...no overdraft, no fees...lovely simplicity (even if I am broke!)

i was even given 2 credit cards all of my very own

Long live poetic justice. :) You fab women shouldn't have to be doing any of this. But hang on to your dignity, and stand back and watch as they torch theirs. And under many eyes! And don't forget to change their name in your phone to "Sad Bastard Who Desperately Needs You to Take Notice Of My Juvenile Thrashings About". Or something similar. It'll make you chuckle every time another stupid attention seeking text arrives. Sleep well, everyone! :) x

Waves back to foolonthehill..hi 5's melb14
Morning all..basic bank account sounds ideal, I'll check that out today, thanks
Without MN over these last few months to keep my spirits up, hand holding and making me smile or even chuckle when I felt like doing neither, this journey would have been a lot lonlier. have a fab day, ladies

i am cynical in thinking that the 'appt' could perhaps equally be called a 'sales opportunity' ; the reports on selling are not exactly encouraging

Just had a lovely long morning at MIL's house with the DCs. Interestingly, STBXH rang MIL while we were there, heard DS2 in the background and asked to speak to them. DS2 only said "hi" and "I love you Daddy" and DS1 refused to come to the phone. The phone was offered to me and I simply said "I'm not interested in speaking to him, thank you" very politely.

I've told MIL I'll be happy to go to SIL's funeral with her if she wants the support, but that if STBXH is there then I will stay away, as I am taking the high road here and am not interested in being accused by him of meddling. She agreed that's the best way to handle it. She kept apologising for his behaviour and I told her a few times that it is most certainly not her fault that he is a prat.

alice glad to hear you had a good time at MIL's, I haven't seen mine in over a year, he cut them out of our lives completely, along with his dad and siblings, after an argument. They were never really interested in our DC or me anyway. Lovely family .
I like the high road. I plan on keeping to it .
Soft play centre was good.. twins were asleep by the time we got there but DD1 was off and running the place within five minutes. Hoping she's getting back to her normal bubbly self..fingers crossed.
We're home and all in our pj's now with cbeebies on. No word from stbxh today which has been lovely! Thinking of getting a puppy now we have a proper garden and a huge rec and playground round the corner.
Bank on monday.

I told DS1 about H living in London. He doesn't care. He just said how long for, and I told him I didn't know but for a long time probably and he said okay, so we wont see him then. And off he went to do something else.

At some point, it will click with him and he'll probably be upset. He has disabilities, with some cognitive problems.

Glad your little ones had the chance to play and run about. No word from stbxh is good IMO

No word from stbxh is excellent. If my laptop was working, I'd happily switch my phone off for the weekend but as it is this is my only access to the interwebs right now.

What do you do about fws manipulating your dcs? As I e posted recently, fw moved back in, and I am trying to stick it out as me and dd go on hol in 2 weeks, then fw is looking after her for a week of hols, so trying to keep peace til after then, when I will proceed with divorce, suggesting mediation?

I am out today and I popped back to get something, and heard him telling her that he wasn't going on holiday as I had told him not to. Yesterday I got upset about him behaving like a fw, and he told her I was mad. She made me a card to feel better soon.

Thinking of just moving out tomorrow despite all disruption but I worry about the week he has her as I have to work that week.

sus Before I moved out with our DC, stbxh had taken to telling DD1 (3 rs old) that mummy was naughty and was being nasty to daddy and was shouting. Comletely confused her because she could clearly see mummy wasn't being horrible or shouting yet daddy was telling her otherwise
. It was awful that he was attempting to manipulate her in such a way and the only thing to do was to get her out of that toxic atmosphere. I feel for you, and in your place, if possible, I'd get both you and your DD away sooner rather than later.

Thats awful sus sounds like something my fw would do.

We had words about the past yesterday and i pointed out how out of order he had been how out of hand it got. He clearly didnt take that well and so its back to the cold shoulder. He out of town with his 'mate' frankly angry and upset that as per my feelings dont matter.
I really need to force myself to stop caring somehow but at the same time, at least if i have feelings im not as low as him. He doesnt do feelings. Or shame.

At this point, I refuse to make contact with him. I want to see how long before he actually contacts me regarding the DCs. He spoke to one of them on the phone over the weekend (the other DC refused), but only because he happened to ring his mother and we were at her house visiting at the time. It was complete coincidence - he hadn't made any effort to contact the DCs. It's been over 3 weeks, and I imagine it will be another week before the funeral, if he even bothers coming back for that.

He has until Friday night midnight to pay his child maintenance that we agreed on when we separated. If he doesn't pay it, then first thing Monday morning, I go through official channels/CSA and have done with it. I am not going to play the "ask for maintenance" game.

Other than that, I'm forwarding his post to him with a note on his post to say "update your address immediately. any post that arrives here as of xxx date will be returned to sender." Not horribly subtle, but I am NOT his PA. This way he cannot say that I've deliberately messed up his post - I will forward it for 2 weeks. But after that, it's done. It's not my problem.

I am focusing on redecorating the house and getting the garden ready for summer next. With any luck, I can get some flooring put down today and tomorrow, and then before I get the living room started (as I'm still making wallpaper decisions), I am going to hire a skip and empty out the rear garden and then hire someone to tidy the garden all up. Once that's done, the maintenance I can keep up with.

So hopefully less headspace given to him, more for me.

Youre doing great there! I find it hard to function right with all the shite in my head that fw puts there. Im trying so hard to do the same and build up that wall brick by brick... Its hard though when im still grieving the loss of the relationship (and the man i thought he was). Hes still chucking a few tidbits down for me to make me feel theres a chance still but im trying to force myself to accept the end. I really want to get over him so badly so i can be in that i dont give a shit mindset.
Giving him the 2 weeks notice period is more than reasonable he doesnt even deserve that. But i understand why youre doing that. Cos fws always find a reason to put fault on their victims x

I'm not forwarding it as a courtesy to him. I just don't want to be accused in court at any point of being uncooperative. I think that is more than cooperative, considering the situation. Obviously, I'd much rather have a lovely bonfire with his post and any items he's left behind, but that's not helpful.

So I will also box up the items he's left behind and take them to MIL's for him to collect with the other things he's left with her. I hate to dump it on MIL, but he has left things there, so it's the most logical place. And I don't want him coming here.

I am still grieving the man I thought he was, but each and every stupid and nasty thing he does only fuels a bit of anger and gives me more strength to get past it.

I'm working on making myself look better (for ME, not for him) - I've lost a stone, got the new cut and colour, and a few new clothes. I'm getting the DIY stuff slowly done in the house that I have wanted to get done for years but he wouldn't take the time to do. And pleased that I'm doing it myself. And I'm doing just fine. Yes, there's some stress involved, but to be honest, there'd be loads LESS stress if he'd just go away, stay away, and quit doing stupid stuff.

I don't hate the OW - I actually feel sorry for her at this point, even though she did rather ask for it by getting involved with a married man. But he, ultimately, is the one at fault here. So she's got the booby prize in this situation, really. Whilst I'm angry with him, I'm also disappointed - he is certainly not the man I thought he was. More an irresponsible lad with no consideration for anyone but himself. Such a pity.

My DC's are getting worse.
DS has had 2 of the most extreme meltdowns. Today it was because I told him to get dressed ( I gave him warning, I told him he could watch telly for 10 minutes, he agreed to come upstairs then passive aggressively went ape shit). He doesn't want to do as he is told and DD is copying him. They talk about daddy constantly starting every sentence with "my daddy...". The other day when collecting them from FW's they lost it. DS was screaming so loud the whole street was looking at us thinking "those poor kids and their separated parents". thing is they leave me happy and return so stressed. their behaviour at the moment is appalling and I am struggling to stay in control. today I slapped my sons bottom. it solved nothing, I felt terrible. but I didn't know what to do. He ground me down. smashing the doors, kicking the door, shouting that he wanted me, I would go, he would refuse to talk (who does that remind me of). How does a FW behaviour seep into everyones pores? I don't know what to do - anyone have any advice on coping mechanisms? maybe I should go onto a single parent thread? do I just ignore them? do I discipline them? Do I wait for it to blow over? it can be so hard that even your cereal gets compared to FW's and I spend my life justifying my choices to them, trying to explain how everyone is different. DS is showing controlling behaviour, going mad when I decide not to do as he tells me. They also are getting really physical with each other, trying to get a reaction out of me (like their Dad) and I am so drained that I keep damn reacting. I feel like hiding today. Yesterday they were so vile I shut myself in the spare room. Its like they couldn't just get on with something they had to have constant input form me. they have never been like this. I hope it passes.

Aaargh, sounds awful. How old are they?

I know it's hard, but try not to justify your cereal choice to them. "That's how we do things here" might be your stock response?

they are nearly 4 and 2 1/2. it feels like nails on a chalk board. Youngest can barely speak she gets so beside herself. I know that its the only way to get a response from FW is when you are at the most frantic end of your emotional scale. I know this as I lived it for 4 years. it was so hard picking them up the other day as he loved the drama. LOVED IT! I ended up sat in the middle of the path with them whilst they both hit me and I waited for the cry's of DADDY to pass so I could talk to them and they could decide coming to mine was ok. The other day I lost it, ended up in tear s on their bedroom floor because they both hit me and bit me then when I tried to discipline them, they refused to be part of it, refused to go to bed, have a bath said "daddy says I don't have to" I feel sick when I think about the mountain I have to climb everytime I see them.

tweedle at that age I reckon they want to be told things - some things. Of course, they also want to make their own decisions. LOs this age do very similar things, sometimes, in the happiest of 2 parent families - it is part of their development, and not for nothing di the Terrible Twos acquire their name.

This is made worse for you because they can add Daddy into the mix.

Don't worry about the slap. I slapped both of mine on the leg a couple of times (literally only once or twice). (I am old gimmer, born in the 50s, it was nothing unusual in my own childhood to get a slap on the leg from DM occasionally, just to show she meant what she said)

At that age you have the tremendous advantage of size and strength, so physical removal to bed (repeatedly ) is possible. May I ask how you do discipline - are you a fan of the Naughty Step?

thank you shimmer. I get terrified they will run to their dad and tell him and he will love it if DS tells him I have been struggling this week.
Yes I put them on the naughty step, they have to sit there silently for one minute and I will keep putting them back there and start the minute again.
I try really hard to stay calm. I just find it so hard when DS sounds like his FW dad. Its like hearing FW's words in my sons mouth. I have this urge to wash his mouth out with soap (I actually wouldn't) but hearing FW's words in my house leads to my reaction I think. I am still emotional about it.
The other day I laughed until my belly hurt as I thought "What would I like in a new man?" and my answer? Someone who doesn't shout at me for being selfish if I want to change the bed sheets. I am also starting to become aware of the situations from our time together when he has been manipulative and I didn't even realise it. I stood up to him and of course, he made my life a misery.
Sometimes it feels like the DC's NEED the constant drama as that is all they have known?

Okay, I'm going to take a slightly different outlook on this. The slap was unfortunate, but yes, I would worry about that. It's a signal to you that you need to pull back and be calmer with them. Yes, I know it was acceptable to do years ago - but I will point out that if you leave a mark at all, you will get social services involved.

At 4 and 2.5, they're probably reacting to all the changes and the stress. Be calm, give them loads of reassurance and cuddles, and be firm. Maybe they feel they have no control over anything - this is a common age to want to assert some control over choices. So give them choices that you are okay with - A bath or a shower? Bath or a washdown? Which pyjamas would you like to choose? Let's get you washed up and in pyjamas and then we'll have some extra cuddle time with a story and a snack afterwards.

I know it's a discipline issue, but by the same token, it's also a "my world has been blown apart and I don't know what's going on" issue for them as well. Give them things to look forward to for when they're done with the things they don't want to do. Say choosing an extra bedtime story, or letting them help you make muffins as a treat. Plan something they'll enjoy doing after their visit with their father so you can remind them when you pick them up "oh let's go quickly, so we have time to make the muffins."

Yes, I know, it smacks of bribery - but what you're doing is easing the transitional period with them as well as creating an atmosphere of comfort and reassurance at home.

Always worth a try.

alice completely totally agree and hand on heart, I do this 99% of the time and thank you for your viewpoint. The time when I slapped my son I can tell you, I don't know what anyone would have done. Imagine the loudest scream of MUUMM you ever heard, now add a child running at you, hitting you and biting you. Shut the door to get some space to decide what to do and he begins to kick a hole in the door. The scary thing, is the similarity to his father. All of his actions the demanding to speak to me then not speaking, the kicking the door in, hitting me. I know hitting back is not ok. I totally do. I just reacted. I was wrong. But I found myself sitting on the floor crying because I don't know how anyone would have dealt with him in that moment.

I will try it. I will try anything.

Actually Alice for me, and for my DM, it was a sign that we needed to pull back and be calmer. And that's what we did. To me as a LO, it signalled that DM felt very strongly about this at the moment.

I absolutely agree about the bribery, Alice! And the choices :) Those are the ways I managed mine, mostly :)

I was occasionally attacked in a fury by a LO in a temper tantrum. I held them to me till it passed.

I didn't use The Naughty Step, tweedle, however it does seem to be effective with my honarary GC when their DM uses it. Jo Frost is quite specific about how to do it - might you have changed what you do so it's not quite what she does? (Have spent many happy hours watching Supernanny)