Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hello all..coming up to one month anniversary of officially finding a lovely new home for me and my babies and escaping abusive stbxh who is still trying to control me, only via our DC now. A very lovely poster on my thread directed me here so I thought I'd pop on and say hi.
Completely refused to engage with stbxh when he visited our DC today. He disappointed them on the last two occasions, not seeing them because he didn't like my (very normal and calm) tone of voice on the phone .

CurtWild I find that my stbxh does the same thing - he will refuse to visit the DCs if he doesn't like my "attitude" or if there's a "mood" in the house (which means he wants me to jump to his tune and let him be as aggressive and abusive as he wants).

Interesting how he feels he should be allowed to act however he wants but I am expected to act the way HE wants me to act (meaning shut up and do what I say).

Alice that's it exactly. He still feels entitled to 'put me back in my place' whilst just my tone, which as far as I was concerned was completely non-confrontational (still well trained to 'behave' ), can result in instant cancellation and a devastated 3 yr old. Luckily my twins are only 16 months and probably wouldn't notice if they never saw him again, but not so for my lovely DD1.
I've made a pact with myself to not answer if he calls and to insist on text contact about visiting our DC, that way he can't be offended by my tone..but I have a sneaking suspicion he'll find something

It doesn't matter. He'll find something. My stbxh left the last contact visit (the last one he actually attended, rather than cancelled, that is) after 5 minutes. He didn't like my attitude or the mood that was in the house. His words. So he left, told the DCs "I can't stay when it's like this here, and I won't see you for a couple weeks." And walked out.

I suspect he expected the DCs to kick off and cry. DS1 looked up at me and said "can I have some more crisps?"

Yes, you think you've thought of everything they could possibly do, but they then tend to come out of left field with something so unreasonable, you hadn't considered it.

If this happens, do not be drawn in!

Alice your DS1 sounds awesome, obviously very switched on to what your stbxh is like. I'm guessing mine will become like that. Today when daddy left, he probably expected tears like last time, but they were actually fine with him going, DD1 was more bothered that he hadn't kissed me goodbye than him actually leaving.
I'll be sure to keep my wits about me re him finding things to have an issue with, as I'm sure he will. Nothing I did was right or good enough when we were together so no reason to think it will be now!

The DCs used to get very upset when he cancelled a contact visit, now they're used to it and don't even expect him to show up anymore. He's moving away soon to live with his "fiancé" so they'll hardly ever see him, I imagine. I'll probably only hear from him when he whinges at me to file for divorce - he'll be waiting for awhile yet. I refuse to go into debt over it - I'll save up the money for a solicitor and THEN I'll file.

Alice quite sad for your DC's, to not even expect him to turn up .
Ah the 'D' word has come up recently, he seems to think that I'm footing the entire bill. So I told him very calmly that I have no intention of re-marrying, and I'll discuss it with him again if he ever chooses another blushing bride (god help her!)
If the best part of a grand fell into my lap right now, there's dozens of things I could think of spending it on, and a divorce isn't one of them.

That's pretty much what I told him. He has recently chosen someone - we've been separated 10 months, they've been dating less than a month, according to him. But they've been "mates" online for 2 years. I don't care, as I had him leave because he was abusive. But now he wants me to foot the bill and wants the divorce basically NOW because they want to get married. Too bad. He can wait until I can afford it. He's got no valid reason to file until we're separated for 2 years.

I have to see fw on a random basis because he decides ad hoc when he wants to see dd. I'm still not in a strong enough place to tell him no and I hate myself for it.

Btw, he divorced me for unreasonable behaviour because I refused to live with him anymore!

Good for you. God they're just incredible these men aren't they. There were all kinds of online and texting shenanigans but I left because of the escalating abuse, even though he's decided to tell everyone he ended it because I'm a 'nightmare'. I'm happy to call myself a survivor whilst he parades around making out he's the victim.
Anyway, because he and I both know that I ended it, he's decided I have to pay for the divorce. Then he'll be waiting a bloody long time!

gotanymore I'm still letting stbxh dictate when he sees our DC but I'm getting better at not letting him take the piss. It's a hard habit to break but it's an essential part of taking their control away. I'm still on baby steps but today was a good day, won't let him control my future like he did my past.

Eeeurgh!!! I hate them all!!!
I am struggling with my DS now. He is exactly like his FW father at present. Rude, attitude, aggressive in tone and physically.
Last night I was in tears in their room after I got them from Nursery. He is currently sat on the stairs screaming at me. I can't discipline him, it means nothing to him he just starts shouting about his dad.
His father never imposes manors, gives them whatever they want. He has them 2 nights a week after 2 weeks of screaming out side my house "you can't stop me seeing my children" and now? He couldn't do last Thursday, wants next Thursday off (he asked me whilst smirking SMIRKING) I said no to him.
I had to cancel an appointment at meditation as DS1 was off Nursery and really poorly. He showered a load of abuse on me for it, and passive aggressive shouting from behind the bush outside his house.
The kids whinge and moan at me, they do nothing for themselves they just stamp their feet and scream. I know that when they don't see him they are totally different children. I find myself stamping my feet and screaming too. I have been going to bed at 8pm as I am so drained. Any advice greatly received.

tweedle unfortunately, if he wants next Thursday "off" there's every chance (regardless of what you tell him) that he will simply not show up to pick them up. Please make sure you are documenting ALL of this. If ever he drags you into court over visitation issues, you can show them how often he's cancelled, and all the hassles he has been giving you.

If he is standing outside your house shouting, I would give him one warning to leave (through the door or window - don't give him the opportunity to push his way into the house) and then ring the police. Don't do the "leave or I'll ring police" but simply "You need to leave - I don't want you here." With any luck while you're on the phone to the police, he'll still be shouting (not realising you are on phone) and they will hear it - and it will be recorded as they record all incoming calls. Do that each and every time he does it. It's embarrassing to have to resort to this, but it's more documentation from you.

As for having to cancel stuff due to DC illness, just do what you need to do. Document it and any reaction from him about it. And move on. YOU know you're doing the right thing. That's really all that's important in the long run. What can he do about it? Drag you back into court because you were home looking after your ill child? He'd look like a right numpty. Any decent solicitor would tell him he's flogging a dead horse with that one.

My stbxh is currently avoiding contact visits. He cancelled to visit his "fiancé" out of town. Then cancelled again, claiming illness, but actually was staying longer out of town. Then had to come back to town suddenly as a family member passed away. And now has said he is cancelling for a few weeks as he "can't cope" with visiting when he's upset over family member's death and will contact me "after the funeral and everything has settled" to visit the DCs. So another couple weeks at least. And then he's moving out of town to live with his "fiancé" and her DCs.

Yup. A real charmer. I've given up trying to tell him that he is literally destroying any chance of a good relationship with his DCs, as when they get older, they will see that he has literally walked away from them to go be stepdaddy to her children instead. (he says they're easier as they're teenagers - apparently primary school children are just too much "work" for him to deal with ) The DCs don't even bother asking about him anymore. They DO ask about their grandmother (MIL), so at least when he is finally out of town, I can take them to their grandmother's house for visits without him being there. That'll be nice, as she's lovely (if a bit naïve about stbxh).

Good morning..literally the first contact visit after our split, stbxh cancelled. He was staying at a mates wating for his new shag pad to come empty and 'mate' was having a 'boys afternoon' so gaming, beer etc..and when I reminded stbxh he had visitation he stomped his foot and threw a tantrum, saying I can't dictate to him where he should be and when and he'll see our DC when he feels like it.
He cancelled the second visit because DD1 was poorly and there was 'no point being there.' The fact that she was asking for him obviously wasn't reason enough. I made the mistake of telling him she was asking for him and got a tirade of abuse about guilt trips and using her as a weapon. I was just stating a fact. I simply love that my DD1's voice has to be silenced for fear of mummy being accused of using her against her daddy.
I've stopped chasing after him for visits. Stopped facilitating. And I won't be telling him DD1 was crying for him during the night and I felt like a monster for the separation taking them away from their daddy.
Oh and he won't tell me where he's living, says he has no intention of taking our DC there (he can't 'cope' with them alone), so it's none of my business.

Am I wrong for wishing he'd just disappear up his own arse? His head's up there most of the time anyway

Extraordinary. Can you imagine you doing this, as a mum, Alice??

"My stbxh is currently avoiding contact visits. He cancelled to visit his "fiancé" out of town. Then cancelled again, claiming illness, but actually was staying longer out of town. Then had to come back to town suddenly as a family member passed away. And now has said he is cancelling for a few weeks as he "can't cope" with visiting when he's upset over family member's death and will contact me "after the funeral and everything has settled" to visit the DCs. So another couple weeks at least. And then he's moving out of town to live with his "fiancé" and her DCs. "

His loss. The children, I'm thinking, are better off without that role model. And i fyou can make positive links with MIL, that's brilliant - well done you, and well done for seeing it as a positive for the DCs' sake.

tweedle: he's an ass, too. Alice is spot on - document everything. Then at least when he does play up you can take from it a knowdlege that he's just handing you evidence on a plate.

Don't despair over the DCs. Someone once said to me that mums are the emotional chimney for them; they need to vent everything through you. Don't take it personally. Look after yourself so you get what you need to be strong. Talk to friends, and see if there is a local group nearby where yu can meet other mums going spare with strops and tantrums. You'll feel less alone, more normal, and much stronger. A lot of this is bluff. you may not feel in control; you have to just bluff to them that you are. Remember that even tho they're hollering at you they really want you to be in charge, and in control, as their dad is making their lives feel the opposite and making them feel like they;re in freefall.So act strong; it will make you feel strong. You Are In Charge. :) Keep telling yourself. You will feel better, and so will the DCs. Don't flinch. Offer hugs and love and absolute reliability. They'll respond. Do what you need to feel stronger. Don't feel alone! Next time they holler, imaging ten of us standing right next to you working with you to be in charge, be strong, and make everything calm again. We're women. We're BRILLIANT at this, even when we're not sure we are. It's in our bones. :) :)

I will wish this for you too curt.
Poor DD. The trouble is FW's don't want us to have a voice. I can see this when I speak. Like his whole face glazes over, his skin gets prickly because I am speaking. Even if HE asked ME the question, any response is irritating to him.
Tuesdays attempt at a reaction was to tell me he needs my passport number to get DD's a passport as they are going on holiday. I knew this and I am ok with it. But my passport is in his house. He then got cross with me as if I am blocking it moving forward.
I will not react.
alice good, strong wise words, thank you. It's so hard to see the forest for the trees sometimes. And agree with the ruining HIS relationship with HIS DC's. That is why I am trying so hard not to react because if he wants to shout at me in the street in front of our DC's, then eventually, hopefully, they will see that it is HIS behaviour and his choices....it may take years though and I hate that. Having to be the bigger person is draining.

Curtwild - xpost. Sorry! What a shit. It's almost funny that a grown up can behave in such a gobsmackingly childish and selfish way, and have all the insight of a lampost. Can he walk and chew gum at the same time?

Having to cope with brokenhearted children is a nightmare, esp when the cause of it is something you can't control. Does WomensAid have some guidance on this - how best to explain to a child, so it's clear, and fair, but not damaging the relationship with the ex any further? In the meantime you can imagine marching over there and inserting a can of beer up his ass. Might make you feel better. ;)

tweedle thanks..you're exactly right, being the bigger person is draining. But like you I'm hoping they'll see it's his behaviour that's ruining his relationship with them and not anything I'm doing. One of the big breakthrough moments for me, ss insignificant as it might seem, was not responding to his late night texts that he'd started sending to test my resolve..do you miss me..are you happy etc. Even a week ago, I'd have text back with something if only that it's none of his concern anymore. Now, he gets nothing. That might seem small but it's huge to me as I always responded. Small steps..

melb14 I actually feel like he's a stranger. This is not the person I met and fell in love with, I could never have loved someone like that. This is a person I used to be able to reason with and get through to, but not for a long time now.
There was a point shortly after DD1 was born when I sensed something switch off in him, and it turned out he'd met someone. I gave him the 'her or his family' ultimatum.
After an atrocious 4 months (so pretty much the first few months with our newborn) of living together while he mooched around over her 'making up his mind', he chose me and DD1 and worked hard to regain my trust. Things were good, the twins came along etc. But he never went back to the person he was before he met 'her', he remained 'switched off' to me, he became more and more resentful and abusive and made me the root of all evil, punished me for having to make a choice, like I twisted his arm to choose me and DD1. Eurgh.

CurtWild: I think you've hit an important point; one of the things we might do well to consider, and give ourselves room for, is the possibility that in some ways we are, or have to allow ourselves to, grieve for the person we had, or thought we had, and then lost. And then I guess once we do that, we have more chance of moving on. Sounds like you have gone a long way down that line. A hugely painful journey. My (non-abusive) ex "checked out" several times in our relationship when stuff was preoccupying him, and also when we were separating and trying (jointly) to hold the children safely in the turbulence, (timing...mmmmm) and that was plenty bad enough. Sounds like your ex distorted whatever what going on in his head and dumped it all on you, and in effect the person he was, died for you in the process. Huge grief for you; and he wrote his own fate here, as how could you relate sensibly to someone who was no longer there? :(

A long time ago a boyfriend was messing me around a LOT, and I remember having enough self respect left in the rubble of my young emotions to tell him that one day his come-uppance would arrive, and I would be there to watch. What I didnt say was that come-uppance would be losing me. (go, my 18yr old naive but feisty self!) So I was there to watch. . And he did meet his come-uppance. And I feel strong and clear in that the loss was his. Your ex has lost you. His mistake. His loss. He's now a stranger to you. You no longer respond to his texts, as the old him isn't there. Maybe not such small steps. I bet they don't feel small to him. :)

oh mel you made me cry. thank you - I needed it.
I know I need to be strong, I am strong! And you are totally right, I am just baring the brunt of the it all as it is my job. It is totally my job to take it on the chin. After being with DC's last night I ended up in bed at 8pm, I was exhausted, I felt beaten up.. I will start properly documenting his behaviour when I see him. I won't regret it and a made need it. As usual I spend my time hoping he will be a better person and he is not. Ever.
Like when he emailed me back after I had to email him about mediation (I currently have no phone) and his response? Didn't even ask about his son. His poorly son. Just cared about what affected him. even the mediation lady who I have met twice said "hope your son feels better". Then I turn up and its MY fault DS was ill. HOW IS IT MY FAULT? Prick.
*curt( totally agree. The man I fell in love with couldn't do enough for everyone. Me included. TBH he is probably still like that to most people who don't really know him that well.

melb14 He distorted many things, re-wrote histoy to the point where he had me doubting things I'd clearly seen with my own eyes or experienced. Whilst slowly chipping away at everything we'd been or had had together, taking my confidence and self-esteem in the landslide and not giving a shit.
I knew the day he had me sobbing and begging on my knees whilst he shrieked abuse and tried to rag my wedding ring from my finger, that the man I fell in love with was dead. We'd been together almost five years and married just six weeks. And it got gradually worse from there.
If I think about it, I suppose I started mourning his loss that day, so almost 12 months later (I hung in there as long as I could while he kept apologising and promising to change), I'm more than half way there.