Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

There is so much fear in it, of what they will do, and all the time, they are actually stealing from you, your energy, your vitality, your time, your life, your soul.

And bit by bit, you take it back.

to all.

Cloud I agree about the wasted legal fees. I persuaded my FW to go to mediation over the financial settlement and posted on here my delight that he agreed everything I asked for. All signed off on Financial Consent order and divorce finished. Then the double crossing bastard denied what he agreed in mediation over supporting our DC and forced me to pay the same as him or our DC suffer.
All that mediation was just a front he must have known it wouldn't stick in court. And he denied what he said in front of two solicitors!! Talk about gaslighting.

But I won't be dragged down by him. I am free and happy and moving on. I don't mind supporting my DC I just resent him trying to get out of his share. Loser!

arg. he's been back today as having dental treatment and just before he went he asked for a hug. i said this is not a joke, i am serious about this. he was distraught, when he got back he was distraught. now i feel awful. i'm ok when he's not here. i would like it to all work out and have him back but i just don't believe he can stop behaving the way he does. and he called my dad and ranted at him about me - many times - the last time was the last straw - how can i get over that!

he says he can't carry on living in a hotel (been there a week), so i have said we can move out again.

oh poo.

he's told my dad i am frigid as i won't have sex with him. that's the bottom line for me - it's one thing saying all these things, but to ring up my dad and say that to him !

Talking about shooting yourself in the...

I need to pick the brains of you wonderful experts. Some I've mentioned previously, but I'll try to keep it brief. DD (9) has not stayed overnight with her Dad since she raised concerns at school a couple of months ago, which were referred to Social Services. Before that she was with him 3 nights a week.

We've had ups and downs, him refusing to see her, her refusing to see him, but I've concentrated throughout on getting him to see the issue, and fix it, rather than minimising to DD what she's been through.
She's now been seeing him lots in the daytime for the last few weeks, and is saying she wants to stay overnight again.

I'd like to try. He's agreed to the changes needed, but do I ever really trust him? I feel sure it will all break down again at some point. I'm sure he'll find a different way of emotionally hurting her as he's losing control in so many other areas. But I just can't say 'no' forever when he's saying all the right things.

Am I bad? Placing her back into the firing line, on the basis I'm waiting for him to shoot himself in the foot again? I have this dream that he's finally seen that he needs to buck up his ideas and concentrate on her needs. As I'm writing this I know it's just that - a dream. I'll be here to pick up the pieces again, and I'll spot the signs earlier this time. DD understands what her Dad's agreed to, and would let me know if there was ever an issue, so we're at least in a much better place.

Beating myself up about this decision. Aaargh.

Can you say what the concerns raised by DD were without outing yourself?

I can try! Always feels like anyone who knows you would spot it was you a mile off anyway...
In short - she was short of sleep as they kept sharing a bed, and he sleep walks / talks / thrashes around. Him drinking too much and getting overtired such that she couldn't wake him up. Fear of his anger. Emotional stuff too - telling her to keep secrets, saying bad things about my friends and family.
I've totally outed myself lol.

and blinking awful guilt trips about how he doesn't eat or leave the sofa when she's not there, and needs her there to make him feel better...

noregrets, I think there are some things which are inapprpriate here, like sharing a bed. I would say she needs her own bed. She is 9.
The emotional stuff, again, not just manipulative, but inappropriate. He needs her to feel better? In what way?
Telling her to keep secrets, what kind of secrets?
This is not a safe environment. He also drinks too much and then there is no responsible adult to look after her.

What external advice do you have?

"overtired"? =passed out?

Has he got separate beds in separate rooms?

Emotional blackmail from one's DF is a bit much for a 9 year-old to have to monitor.

Agree with cloud.

I can see you are in a tough place as you say it is hard to say no forever but you have real concerns.
And DD would be put in a difficult position of policing her dad knowing that if she whistle blows she will not get to stay over and he will play hurt dad card.

It is really hard to know what to suggest.
It could be made an occasional rather than regular thing so he does not slip into bad habits ...but he only has to be unfit to look after her once for it to be potentially disastrous.

That do SS say?

I should clarify - those were the original concerns, hence she's not slept over there since. He has now committed to her sleeping separately, not drinking when looking after her, and ensuring he gets some sleep. She's been seeing him during daytimes, and the emotional side seems to have improved also.

She has her own bed and room! But she has enjoyed co-sleeping since an early age. I encourage her to be independent. He likes her being dependent.
The overtired thing is because he works funny shifts, but then tries to stay awake to 'turn around'. But in reality he falls into a deep sleep on the sofa from which he can't wake. And any beer makes it worse.

In terms of him feeling better, it's along the lines of I'm so sad and lonely, I need you here to keep me company.

As I say - he's committed to all these things I've asked for, hence I feel I'm running out of excuses.

If only it were that simple. But of course he is a FW and therefore I can't trust him as far as I can throw him. If it weren't for Mr Lundy I could continue in blissful ignorance of his inability to change...

I've agreed to go see him tomorrow to talk about it some more.

I think the idea of it being occasional rather than regular is a good one. It would keep that dialogue open with DD about how it's going, rather than being automatic.

SS were not very specific. Just said that due to her anxieties it's probably best not to stay overnight for the time being...
They didn't seem too worried, but I guess that's because I did such a good job of showing that DD has me looking out for her. I don't want to fail at that job! But what am I supposed to say - no matter what changes he makes, what he agrees to, she can never stay overnight again?

Having seen 2 neighbours 20 years ago reduced to zombification by rotating shifts, I have some sympathy with this situation - do his shifts vary, and if so, do they vary in a predictable way? Perhaps you could, together, optimise occasional days for DD to go and stay.

He's currently back to being unemployed, so the shift working shouldn't affect it atm. He tends to just stay up all night anyway, but now has no excuse not to make sure he gets enough sleep.
Thing is, we can just try it for a night, but I know it will be fine. He'll be on his best behaviour. It's whether he can keep up the good behaviour in the longer term that I really doubt.

I also feel I need to leave him to 'shoot himself in the foot' otherwise I'll create a hero in DD's eyes, and push her even further towards desperately trying to please him.

I think you are right about not making yourself the bad guy and him the victim in DDs eyes.
The occasional thing sounds the way to go.
as DD gets older she will hopefully she will see all this more clearly.

And be open with both her and him about the conditions for her staying so she will know your reasoning and can feel safe knowing you have her back.

How long does the apologetic side last?
I have found myself very apologetic, for miniscule things.

It is making me feel weak. When with ex, i found myself saying sorry for things i hadnt even done,in order to prevent arguements and keep him happy.

Now he is gone and i am still doing it. I have tried to hold back with saying it, telling myself i have done nothing wrong and dont need to say it. But the worry of thinking maybe i have upset the other person eats me up, and so in the end i say it - or torture myself with worry over not knowing if i have upset them or not!

Is this common in the aftermath of emotionally abusive relationships, or do i have a problem here?

Sounds like you need a dose of Anne Dickson and This Book on Assertiveness wontlet. I found it invaluable in dealing with my FW but also in life generally as I am a typical people-pleasing nice person and hate asking for anything. I bet a lot of us on this thread are similar. The price you pay for saying no is tremendous guilt. You need to practise the skills needed to learn to overcome your natural tendencies.

Thank you very much. I have just ordered it. Yes it is an enormous amount of guilt for saying no.

Hopefully i can take notice of this book as i would really enjoy not feeling guilty over silly things. Its draining. Thanx again

What I find so astonishing is the range of normal behaviour I come across. Gentle considerate people like us who always consider the impact of our choices on others and are diffident even to ask for a television programme we want to watch in case it bores other people, have to live in a world with entitled selfish gits who think the world owes them everything. The way my lovely DM brought me up to be thoughtful and unselfish did not equip me for coping with a manipulative person who put himself at the centre of every action. I see children interacting and I want to say to the sensitive little girls (usually) "Don't let him have that toy just because he is shouting for it! Insist on taking turns!" or "Don't let her eat the cake with the cherry on without at least asking for some! You are entitled to it just as much as she is!"

When my DC are being vile assertive about their preferences I have to pat myself on the back for not making them people pleasers.

I am guilty of that. Not watching what i want in order to please others.

I think its difficult when you have a people pleasing attitude, as people tend to take advantage of your kind nature, quite quickly.
Not all thankfully. But there is an awful lot.

At the same time though,i often wonder if i am just too sensitive that maybe i cant handle the norm of people.
I always end up agreeing to do something i dont want and such. In the end, its easier to just avoid. Only id rather i didnt have to do that. Fingers crossed this book helps!

Not been around for a week or so, but all quiet with me :)

to the newcomers and also to old friends

KA people pleaser is my middle name so I have ordered that book too. Thanks :)

YY to teaching children to stand up for their rights.

Interestingly, I did learn as a child that my needs were important. Unfortunately, I was not equipped to deal with conflict. I also learnt that if things were bad, there's not much you can do to change them. I guess that came from my parents. I just remember as a teenager noticing that others in my class wanted to change something they didn't like: I noticed they believed they could change it. I didn't believe they could!

Not any more, though. I have finally faced up to my responsibility to steer my own ship!

Ok should I do now ladies?
Fw is back again this weekend. He's been lovely with dd - but it's broken my heart to realise how worried she is- she's told me quietly- daddy's not going to be nasty anymore- and she came running up to see me earlier to tell me daddy was vein wonderful . It's like that relief I used to feel when he was being nice. He has even cleaned te bathroom today. Wtf?!!!

But we got a letter from ss today after the police visit. As its the second time I ve called police it took quite a threatening tone to both of us - warning any more police involvement and ss will be involved in our family/ so clearly I won't be calling the police any more.

I shouldn't need to as I am quite clear now I feel
Better when he is not around. But should I just move, or tell him yet again I am serious. I suppose we could go to my parents and refuse to come back until he properly moves out. Or just rent, but I can't afford it and i am hoping to keep dd inher home at least for the first few months of the split.

Been reading quite a lot and think I have finally got my head to accept this abuse is damaging to me and dd. I feel more alive when he's not here. No going back now.