Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

i left a week ago and it was definitely easier just going. It showed him i was serious. However be careful with the hb as you don't want to get into arrears before you've even started. If you need to get out before talk to Womens Aid and see what they think.

I have tried to leave for 5 years and now been out a week and it's been easier than i thought- for me emotionaly, as it's such a relief. I am fearful it\s going to get worse as he is being so nice and also has now left so that we can stay in the home and i think he may be doing it thinking i;ll change my mind if he is nice. So waiting for rocks ahead.

So if you can get out and rent privately you have all the control and you will be fine xxx

I've been thinking about my daughter today. Now I was painfully shy as a child and I was always surprised what an outgoing child I have.

However, i nthe last year she has become very shy in new situations - almost paralysed with shyness and unable to move. She does a lot of after school clubs and Rainbows and loves them, but for eg I took her to her first Rainbows and I could see how shy she was initially. She was so proud that she had managed to speak in the circle last week.

She also had lots and lots of nightmare and night terrors.

I am now starting to realise that these changes in her - which have worsened over the past year as our situation has worsened - could be related to what's going on at home. Does this sound likely? She seems very anxious a lot of the time. very sociable on a one to one eg she will always talk to other children (she's 5 ), but can get aboslutely unable to function in a new and more intimidating environment.

I'll never know of course, but I am starting to think these could be related to how many times she has seen FW shout and scream at me. He did it to her the weekend before we left as she kicked off in a shop and was very badly behaved- I told her off of course when we wer eout - but he went on and on for about 20 minutes at her about it . Then the next day she saw him shouting at me and telling me my parent's didn't love me (ironic as I moved there 2 days later).

anyone got any experiences of how children have been affected and how to help them. She's just woken up from a bad nightmare which got me thinking.

Thanks, yes I will hold out a bit longer either way. Its just the secrecy and underhanded part im having trouble with I think. I am a really crap liar-he only the other hand is a compulsive liar. I shouldnt feel so bad about not telling him.

i found that i felt a bit less guilty once i was out. Even thought he looks awful and is staying in a hotel, i have time to focus on myself and think clearly about everything that's happened. He was around last weekend and i felt guilty. he's been gone now since sunday night and i've only felt the odd twinge :-) If you have anyone you can stay with while you wait i would recommend that. because actually doing it is the scariest bit and it's nice to have that bit over with !

slowly put yourself first. don't warn him it just gives him time to try to stop you.

sus the good news is the dcs usually start to settle once they get used to being out of the situation. often remarkably quickly. nighmares and shyness are not unusual at that age anyway.
lots of love and reassurance. you have already given her the best thing by leaving.

mindy him standing over you on bed sounds awful. and the I just need you to be nicer to me (then i would not have to be a dick) is a FW classic.
I was never nice enough to mine.

Mine used to shout and scream as I wasn't nice enough too. If only I d given him a bedtime kiss - he wouldn't have kicked off ( after I was asleep). I ve never understood logic- how does shouting at me make me be nice .

I'm still totally confused as to how ingrained the distorted thinking is. Do they genuinely believe their rages and blame are justified or is it a conscious act of abuse?

My mum keeps telling me it doesn't matter either way - that the reason doesn't negate the abuse but I think I'm still sufficiently reeled in to care.

Last night, he came for the rest of his things and was just really, really bizarre. He initiated the split but kept telling me I had. It was just odd. At one point he asked me a question and then, when I'd answered, told me I had said the polar opposite to my reply. He also shouted at me again for his mistake in taking a box of my paperwork out to the car. He said: "well why didn't you move it away from my things?". It was odd. The children were there and the eldest's jaw was on the floor like mine. He looks awful (the FW, not the boy, the boy looks like Rupert Grint only better (bias)). Is he genuinely bonkers or trying to make me think he's bonkers so I start to question?

GAH! Why is my head still f**ed??!!

Tinsel opinions differ as to FWs' motivation. Personally I think they believe in their rages and blame (as I did, when raging and blaming my FW - with some justice I think, though wrong and not productive). They somehow think the raging etc is Outside Reality - a meta-comment on the relationship which should not be counted as part of everyday interaction but is designed (in their tiny minds) to improve that interaction (!). As I kind of did. (And slightly akin to the way that DD and I thought our chats just before leaving for school would not actually take any time up!)

He certainly looks like he believes it pussycat. It's interesting to me that you are a reciprocal 'rager' too. I am definitely guilty of this. The cycle would be that I tolerated months of the subtle digs, the passive aggressive needling and the vile and degrading verbal assaults (not to mention the utter confusion of having someone repeatedly doing the whole I love you/don't love you, let's relocate/not relocate, I want this career/I don't want that career, I am embarking on this - the best project ever/ i have abandoned said project it sucks routine, I have done my fair share of raging too. It gave him the perfect 'justification' every time. I wish I had not done this and simply gone.

What does frighten me is that I can see a physical change in his face and mannerisms every time the auditory hallucinations and reworking of events or whatever they are kick in. It is really freaky.

My mum says it's his problem but I do worry about my children. This morning - where as I was still dumbfounded - I get a perfectly civil text as if nothing at all untoward happened yesterday....

I don't know what I expected, really. I had hoped that me breaking the cycle of him leaving then me desperately capitulating to his demands to win him back would stop the confusion. He doesn't want me and at last, I don't want him. He has what he says he wants so why perpetuate the crap?

tinsel I think they have an idea of who they- it may be organised, sucessful etc. an idea of where they are going- I am just about to do x, I am giving up smoking, I am moving on in my career, I am fixing my house
and then the reality- which doesn't quite live up to the ideal.

I think this applies to all of us but for a FW the gap is often wider.
they also have some inflexible ideas that they cannot let go of- mine believed the following things about himself 'I cannot change (but other people will if I make them), I am right, I cannot (not will not) finish things, the world is fundamentally unfair to me, regardless of what I do my family must stay loyal, I should be the most important person in my life but also in my partner's too.

My FW is his own religion.

They have to reconcile the gap between what the idea and the reality and the easist way to do it is to blame someone else.

They also have an idea of who and what you are that does not match with your reality. You will also be blamed for that.

If you question either their idea of you or of themselves you are interfering with their self made reality and they don't like it. You are making them unhappy. So you will be punished. Because it is inconvenient for them not to have things the way they have dictated they should be.

Mine would say things were my fault. somtimes I would sit him down and get him to admit that I either had not done what he said or that e.g. his DIY was not my responsibility. he would admit this. Then two weeks later we would be back to the same thing. because it CANNOT be his fault.

It is also a learned bahviour based on what has worked in the past. Because in the moment they will say anythign to get their immediate objective which is victory at any cost. and if they are caught out their response is to deny, deny, deny.

I have even heard my FW telling his dcs to do this- if you get caught, just deny it and keep denying it. I did try to point out to him this is not a good lesson in life to teach them. the lesson should be, don't do it in the first place, but if you do do it, face the consequences and learn from it.

You need to let go of this idea (that there might be a reason) because if you are still looking for the cause, you are also looking for a cure. it is not your job to fix him.

in the end...it matters not what the crocodile bites, only that it does.

why perpetuate the crap?
because it worked before.

Don't worry too much about your kids. the good thing about kids is they grow up. Unlike FWs.

I have even heard my FW telling his dcs to do this- if you get caught, just deny it and keep denying it. I did try to point out to him this is not a good lesson in life to teach them. the lesson should be, don't do it in the first place, but if you do do it, face the consequences and learn from it.

and this, by the way, is evidence that some of it at least is perfectly conscious.

sus congrats on ending it, is he likely to come back home? I asked mine to leave once but he came back after two days saying I should be the one to leave-knowing damn well I had nowhere to go. I hope it works out for you. I notice a change in my daughter only when hes around. Shes four and is usually a really happy girl, chatty, loves to play pretend games.. when hes here she is expected to sit quiet and not get any toys out. She does this but of course hates it. The tipping point for me is when she tells me 'mummy we need to tidy up now because daddy will tell you off' or 'I cant get that toy out because daddy wont like it' why should she have to feel like that. Then he tells me to be good parents we need to be on the same side! Unfortunately kids will always react to conflict at home, dont want mine to think its normal.

I noticed my ex denied very small things, and keep denying even when obvious.

I was brought in onto these lies at times. Having to relay a story he had made up and have to follow on it as though it was real.

The final straw for me was when he told my neighbour he was in the army and had been laid off for a bad back.
Her son was currently serving in the army.

I thought it was a sick, sick lie.
This woman has never learned the truth, and now seemingl looks down her nose at me since i kicked him out. I think she thought he was the hell of a guy he believed he was, and im a cruel bitch.

I used to say how can i believe a word you say when you lie over such little things.
Obviously if something big happened, he would go beyond denial.
He couldnt understand this and claimed i was weird as i didnt understand that people tell white lies to tell people what they want to hear.
My neighbour would like him more if she believed he was in thr army...apparently.

Thank you, Mink. Sometimes there's a way of expressing things that just seems to flick a switch and a light comes on. 'Still looking for a cure' did just that for me.

The old telling people what they want to hear to get what you want trick! I had begun to believe that everyone apart from me did this. That there was something inherently wrong with my moral code, that I was too honest....

It has made me a little wary of everyone, I think. Which, of course, was to his benefit.

I did too! I really started to believe there was something wrong with me. On top of him insisting that i was mentally ill, even to the point of making me go to the doctors. Then taking over the appointment insisting that i get a psychiatrist. They even started looking at carers allowance for him!
He exaggerated everything, projected his symptoms onto me. I didnt realise at the time. I didnt know what was happening. He told me to trust him, and so stupidly i did. I take my mental health seriously for my kids sake. If someone tells me i am not right, then i would do what was needed to correct that!

How they can be so cruel to do things to that extent is beyond me

Sorry - went on a bit of a rant there!

How they have the time is remarkable! Mine was always uptight. Couldn't sit still, really, really excessive exercise, jittery etc.

Even this was my fault. I was too demanding. I now see that he had too many deceitful balls in the air. Must have been exhausting!

I went to counselling on his insistence too. Three sessions until she said, I think couples counselling might be a better way forward - you can't take ownership of his contribution to the relationship. He was gutted when I told him this. I think he really thought the process was going to lead to someone agreeing that everything should be my responsibility.

That's an awful scenario with the GP. Have you gone back to explain? I'd be sorely tempted to get that one on the record.

The pig.

Yes he probably fully believed that the professionals would agree with him. Im pleased she suggested couples counselling and discharged you. Shit on he was there, wasnt he!

Because of the GP appointments, they referred me to the community treatment team - who came for an assesment and were stumped as to why they were visiting me. They were for more extreme cases - the exteme being how he tried portraying me.

I was quite pleased with then come the end of it - their assessment proved that i only had anxiety (which i knew and wanted help with), it also stated that i was very knowledgeable with regards to my own mental health and i knew exactly what needed to be done and was already doing self help to ease my anxiety!

He then stepped it up and tried controlling my further appointments.
They continued seeing me, just put me with one of the CBT therapists as that is what i knew i needed and asked for. I still see him - he said he could see what my ex was doing, but couldnt say anything which is why he didnt see me much when on my own. It was pointless.

When i told my ex that i knew i didnt have anything seriously wrong with me and now i have proof. His response was "at least you got the help you needed for cbt. You never would have got that if i didnt do what i done!" Super guy, eh. What a help he was...dick!

I really dont know how they have the time or energy. If only they put their efforts into actually making a relationship work!

His response was "at least you got the help you needed for cbt. You never would have got that if i didnt do what i done!"

wontle even when they are wrong they are right

I know. You cant ever win with them, can you?

Oh, mink, the wisdom that comes with experience. You are so right. I did laugh at 'My FW is his own religion', and sigh at the trying to fix him. I'm not trying to fix him, but still, somehow, I'm trying to sort the separation out. I'm still catching myself thinking, if I had responded differently at x point, it would be resolved by now. Or if I do y, it will be resolved. And so it goes on.

cloud that is the thing. sometimes we still have to get them to do something in order to keep our lives on track and then it is back to having to guess how they think and predict their moves and try to push the right buttons. you'd have more luck with a one-armed bandit.

I hope it is resolved soon for you. you deserve a break.

you'd have more luck with a one-armed bandit

That is about the sum of it. I should have just blown all the legal fees in Vegas.

But it is a big world, he is a small speck. The world still turns, the sun still rises. That is what I hate, that he has taken time from me, that he is taking time from me. And that is not what I want.