Dh into swinging... I'm not, so what now?

[Kitty909]

My dh and I have had a big row over the past few days about our thoughts of swinging. This is now potentially a deal breaker in our marriage and naturally, we are both very annoyed and upset.

A little history... We've been married 14 years and have a ds 16 (my son from previous relationship) and a dd 11. We have had about 7-8 years of serious stress involving money, property, jobs, legal but have worked together to try to get through it, and although all is not sorted, we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

About 8 years ago we went to Hedonism in Jamaica for a holiday. This was seen as a fun, adventurous place to be to have a special holiday with each other... And it was. There were people who were into swinging, but we enjoyed the charged atmosphere, the silly games, the sun and the food, but we were totally monogamous and had a great time.

This seems to have kick started my dh's interest in swinging, and looking back, while it was never forced on me, I felt under pressure to give it a go. So, over the last 5 or so years, we have been occasional swingers meeting up with others through internet sites. I must stress, this has happened only a couple of times a year, but was always as a result of dh's efforts.

I have never enjoyed this involvement, but felt pressure to go along with it because dh got such a thrill from it.

So the other day, my dh had arranged to meet a couple - then asked me..... At first I thought, here we go again, I'll go to keep the peace. After thinking it over, I told him I had changed my mind and didn't want to go. Well, I am now the worst in the world! I know he was disappointed and probably a bit angry, but I wanted to make a stand that 'it's not me!' and not something that I feel happy to do.

We have had a dwindling sex life over the last few years, probably due to our stress, tiredness, age (late 40's) but I think he felt these occasional hook-ups spiced things up enough. Now, he wants to know what I'll do in the bedroom to compromise for not swinging. I just want a good healthy, normal relationship and he's not happy.

Obviously, this isn't something I can discuss with my girlfriends or my mum! Any advice appreciated... I don't know where this will go.
Thank you

You don't need a GP but you may need to seek counselling to help you understand why you think this is a great marriage. There's nothing wrong with your sex-drive whatsoever. You're with a sexually coercive and (to me) repellent man who has crushed your self-esteem and confidence through his actions. How on earth are you supposed to feel aroused by that kind of behaviour? Until he accepts that he is at fault he will not change.

No wonder your sex life is going downhill.

I wouldn't feel like shagging him if he was pushing me into sexual stuff that I didn't want to do and making me feel like a sex toy for his own gratification rather than mutual enjoyment.

We have had many great years of marriage... And I'm really hoping we can sort this out.

For what reason? The longevity of the relationship shouldn't be the motivator. It should be the quality of it.

I want a 'get back to basics' approach, because even our affection towards each other has gone.

and

I do wonder if I need to see the GP for help to re-boot my sex-drive, but right now I feel my self-esteem in the bedroom is rock bottom.

Your affection towards him has gone along with your sexual desire and your self-esteem because he is sexually abusing you. You may not currently recognise it as such but it unequivocally is. That is entirely NORMAL, there is nothing wrong with you at all, you are not in need of treatment from the GP for not fancying sex with someone who is sexually abusing you,

I wonder what in your previous sex life led to you feeling you had to go swinging against your own feelings, that's a worrying lack of consent for sex that you are both comfortable with at that point already.

I have said we need to work from this and build our sex life back up again.

and

One of my arguments against swinging was it becomes a problem if that's what needed to keep sex interesting and fulfilling - and so it has.

This is the response of someone with normal expectations of a sexual relationship which has fallen by the wayside in a long relationship and who has tried something which isnt working but with your relationship this response to him (a reasonable normal one) will fix nothing because this (and the what else are you going to do to make up for it comment);

He thinks I'm making no effort and this is becoming a he-said she-said argument to do with everything else.

is showing you that he feels entitled to use your body for whatever he wants and that if you won't allow that you are unreasonable (i.e. he is sexually abusive).

I totally get it for those who enjoy swinging, but there is obviously difficulty when a couple's involvement is not equal. Dh is bitter and cross, I am relieved i put my foot down. It hard to find middle ground.
Thanks for such supportive comments

There should be no 'middle ground' between equality and inequality in a sexual relationship. You are worryingly comfortable with involvement that is not equal. He is bitter and cross because he is abusive. This is not normal or acceptable and you really need to get out. You can't work on a sexually abusive relationship and get past it as an issue.

You are making excuses for him. This is not a great marriage. All the blame is being laid on you and you are accepting that.. The only person at fault here is him. In a loving and respectful relationship you would have told him that swinging made you feel uncomfortable and he would have been upset that you went ahead with swinging when you didn't actually want to. That just went over his head thought because your feeling do not count. It's all about him. A loving, respectful person who cherishes their partner most certainly wouldn't be ok with their partner's discomfort and they wouldn't be using guilt and pressure tactics to get their partner to bend.

I'd hazard a guess that he is fully aware you don't want to do the swinging and this is part of why he wants to do it so much. The comment of 'well what else (that you don't want to do) are you going to do (instead of that thing you don't want to do)' is indicative of that at least being involved in his enjoyment of sex.

and please don't fall for any of the 'oh but men NEED sex and do crazy things when women don't provide enough/the right type of it' stuff... That is out and out rape apology.

While I understand why other posters are angry on your behalf I think it is hard to really understand your DJ's perspective without hearing his side. Maybe he feels sexually rejected by you or is trying to get things from you (inappropriately and pretty unpleasantly) as evidence of the affection that you recognise is missing. Maybe he is just being a child but there are other factors at play for him.

We don't know and neither do you because you two can't communicate properly about this after all of the confusion and resentment.

I think couple's counselling would really help you both to feel heard. At least then you'd know what is going on in his head. If you still want to leave you could but if not you'd be in the right place to work on rebuilding that lost connection.

Sulking like a little kid who has had his toys snatched.

Your body, your choice.

Compensating him for finally opting out of something he initiated and jollied you into? Not likely.

My wife and I have been swinging for years. A number of times it had been obvious one of the partners in a couple we have met have just been doing it for their partners (both male and female) or one suddenly gets jealous as their partner is getting a good time from someone else. IME it only works if both partners are fully in to it.

Been lurking for a while and just joined today after reading this post. I really feel for you as a similar thing happened to me in a new relationship my bf had been swinging for a while and when he asked me to go with him initially I was curious but after thinking about it And taking it to therapy i realised that the likelihood of it being a good experience for me was unlikely so for me I was clear than swinging was not of interest to me. A friend of mine actually did go along with her husbands requests and his demands became harder and harder to deal with. It's horrible to be put in this position but for me the therapy made me be strong in my own mind about my boundaries. We are still together two years on both have had sex therapy together and apart been tough at times but in my experience the swinging request is thin edge of the wedge xx

With respect Dorothea where sexual abuse is concerned it isn't helpful to direct the victim to consider why their partner might be sexually abusing them. Sexual abuse itself is so damaging. It is equivalent to encouraging someone who has been punched to consider their partner might be having a breakdown and not handling it in the best way.

For me, and I think it is right, physical violence and sexual abuse are not things, once they have happened that can ever be come back from in a relationship.

And couples counselling is definitely not appropriate where there is abuse.

Couples counselling is not normally advisable where there is any sort of abuse, bullying, controlling or coercive behaviour. The DH as described thinks this bullying behaviour is a perfectly normal way to conduct a loving relationship, whereas the OP has zero self-esteem after demeaning herself, is anxiously taking on all the blame, desperately trying to fix things... up to and including seeing a GP for her supposed libido issues. Can you imagine a counselling session with those dynamics in play? Pointless.

OP you tried it, you don't like it, you don't want it. End of.

Your dh has tried monogamy, if he doesn't like it any more then that is his prerogative.

But there is no middle ground here, no compromise.

Ordinarily I would say that you are never going to be sexually compatible because his tastes have changed/been revealed and it will never go back to how it was before.

But in your case, the way he has approached this makes him sound abusive, so you should leave him anyway.

There's nothing wrong per se with your DH deciding that he is interested in swinging and would like to try it.

There is everything wrong in him trying to coerce you into either taking part, or making you feel guilty because you won't and thinking that you need to make it up to him.

I'm glad you've put your foot down, if you don't want to do it then that's that. Don't be tempted to back down to keep the peace.

He may be feeling put out as you've agreed to it outwardly thus far and his mind has been playing out all sorts. Now he's having a tantrum because it hasn't worked out the way he'd hoped. It doesn't make it right, but I can see where he's coming from.

You say you want to stay in the marriage and work on it. You also say you have low self esteem and libido. Have you tried non sexual ways to rectify this as a couple? I mean like date nights etc? Having fun as a couple after all you've been through in recent years may reawaken what made you commit to each other in the first place.

Completely agree with happytalk, he should have been horrified that you'd been going along with something that you weren't comfortable with for years. His main concern should be working out why you, his wife, couldn't confide in him/say no from the start, not trying to guilt you into carrying on!

If my DH said to me that something we'd been doing in bed for years made him unconfortable, I'd be devastated, apologetic, looking for ways to make it up to him.

Wouldn't you, OP?

So why does your DH not give a shit that you've been unhappy and is only looking for something else you can do for him?

Exactly Doctrine. You said it better than me!

OP stand-up for yourself and if you are not comfortable with something that's that.

Swinging is not my cup of tea but how is the DH being abusive here?

This thread highlights how a lot of women are affected by Victim Mentality.
There is a massive difference between being coerced to do something and being pressured to do something.
If anyone thinks they are one and the same, then they too have a Victim Mentality and probably came across is a martyr.

It's simple, if you can say no AND not be in danger, then anything you do is your choice.

OFOD

Oops! Meant to say...

Oh for god's sake arsenal!

Do you not understand the concepts of consent and abuse?

Have you read the definition of domestic violence?

Why is pressuring anyone into sex ok and how is it different to coercion?

How is the DH abusive? By coercing the OP into sexual behaviour that they are uncomfortable with. That is not 'victim mentality' in the slightest and I think you're not only splitting hairs but being deliberately antagonistic saying there is a difference between coercion and pressure. There isn't. Someone doesn't have to be in physical danger to be in abusive relationship and saying that the OP has chosen to be sexually abused is downright offensive.

Ignore the derailer, folks. He has history for this.