The relationship with my mum is hanging by a thread. Can anyone please help?

[FamilyIssues234]

Im not going to use the MN abbreviations as Im halfish tempted to show this to my mum, if I think it will help rather than hinder the situation.

Bit of background is needed to make the current situation clear.

My mum and I have always been very close, she was always more of a best friend and I absolutely adored her as a kid but particularly in mu teens and 20's. Theres nothing I couldnt discuss with her, spoke with her regular and generally had an excellent relationship and all round good laugh. My folks split when I was 16.

My mum met her husband I guess, about 8 years ago now, they moved in and married in the last 2-3 years.

2 Christmases ago I was 20 weeks pregnant with my second son. I split with his dad (father of my first son) the day I found out. This was not my choice.
I also moved out of a not-so-great area to a much nicer one, and my mum was amazing and lent me 2.6k to move. She told me on no uncertain terms not to tell her husband as he is very controlling with money.

I had my 20 week scan a couple of days before Christmas. On the way back my ex flipped out, screamed and shouted at me about nothing and everything, threatened to hit me, at which point I was sobbing and bolted out the car towards moving traffic liked a prized dick but I was pregnant, threatened and upset.

I called my mum and she told me to gather everything together and get the train up to hers (is 2-3 hours away by train) so I did.

Her husband picked me up from the station and was quite off with me. When we got in, he was going on and on about how broke my mum was which I found odd. Kept bringing it up over and over again, then mentioned how her credit card was maxed out and the penny dropped. She had told him. I felt sick, he was making me feel like a proper bastard for borrowing the money. Again and a-fucking-gain. I need to press at this point, that in no way did her lending me money affect his finances. It was very much money I borrowed from my mum, not from him or even them. Something I was, and still am very very grateful for.

I stayed a few days and after Christmas passed I was about to go and get the train home with my 3 year old and I started bleeding. I asked my mum to take me to the hospital and she was mental. Screaming and shouting, so once again I was crying and had a crying 3 year old hanging off me.

In hind sight I think the above might have something to do with the husband/money fiasco because she is usually a lovely, caring person.

So then I was dropped like a hot potato, no calls or texts, and calls I gave were cut short 'got to go!' Or just ignored completely (never answered her phone to me on a weekend).

Then I realised in over 2 years, she had only called me two times and I wondered what Id done. The relationship was fucked as far as I was concerned so I sent her an email wondering what went wrong, accepting the relationship was screwed but I needed closure.

She sent and email back asking what I wanted, I just said I wanted to talk.

So we did. On a weekly basis, a set day she calls me and its been great! I feel like Im beginning to know my mum again after she became a complete stranger for a few years.

However, it has been made clear by her husband that Im no longer allowed to stay over at their house when we travel up there for Christmas etc.

I asked her why this Christmas after it became uncomfortably obvious that there was an issue between her husband and myself. She said when I sent the email, she showed him and was pissed off because it showed I didnt respect him.

I just read the email back tonight because I cant sleep as I cant get thus issue out my head, and the only mention of him is "After you married [husband] our chats understandable dwindled...." Then no mention or reference to or about him for the rest of the email. It was clear in context that a meant, new relationships take up your time.

Why is has taken such offence to that is beyond me.

My issue now is, I no longer feel welcome at all in their home. I dont want to go there and theres bi-yearly gatherings that take place there. And her husband clearly has beef with me.

I dont particularly like someone who makes me feel repetitively shit for borrowing money (which I paid a large amount off straight away, and this time last year owed £100), tells my mum that all her children rely on her too much, takes offence to something that is totally inoffensive and basically says Im banned from staying at their house, and presumably doesnt particularly like me being there at all, because according to him 'I dint respect him' because of what I wrote of him in the email.

Sorry this is long, and seemingly petty perhaps but its putting a strain on mine and my mums relationship and from this point onwards I fully, and totally blame her husband for it.

I didnt before, but I very much do now and I can only see things getting worse.

She had a seriously fucked up childhood.

This has had an affect on her. She used to regular have angry psychotic almost, outbursts. She would pin it on my Dad before she left him, then used to aim it at me once he had left.

She has form for burying a current issue in her life, and letting it explode at someone innocent.

Ever since I became a mother I have feared being this way with my kids.

Her mother had psychological issues, hugely so. Her husband was a beaten husband.

My mum isnt as bad, but not great.

Im definitely not perfect. I find it hard to decifer what is a normal reaction as a parent/human being and what is inherited.

I dont have outbursts like my mum does though, thankfully. And I dont hurt, abuse, nor blame my children.

But Im not perfect.

How do you find out if you have inherited the 'fucked upness' gene?

I actually asked to see a psychologist once, I even explained why. All of the above of this post (not this thread) but they never followed through.

No, you didn't fuck it up. Of course you think that, with both your parents telling you that their shit was your fault since you were a child. But hopefully now is the beginning of a journey to sort out their lies from the truth and start seeing what has really been going on.

What you've just said about her telling you the divorce was your fault throws a different light on what you've said previously about the relationship. That is an unspeakable thing to say to your child, and you're right, you must have buried it because it was just too painful a thing to take on board.

I'm wondering if she was ever really that great a mum; I suspect the reality is that you are a much nicer person than she is and that the success of the relationship was all down to you.

Can you access any form of counselling or therapy to support you in dealing with all this? I realise it might be next to impossible in terms of finances and also your DS2's care needs, but if there is any chance you can, you might find it really helpful to have someone in your corner. You've been getting blamed for so long, when you are actually the innocent victim here.... It's quite a big mental shift to make in terms of how you see yourself, and your mother, of course.

I don't know what to write but I feel really upset reading what happened and I hope you are OK.

She has no clear idea of your reality and it seems likely she's married an arsewipe.

Blaming a child for a marital breakup is a really shitty thing to do. Sorry but she sounds a bit arsewipey too. You are probably better off going nc.

I would not want children exposed to a grandmother like that.

X-posts with you both.

You really have a lot to deal with here, Family. Try and go easy on yourself if you can. And keep hold of the thought that it's not your fault. It's not you, it's her.

Will be going to bed soon so won't be around to chat much longer tonight, but you are in my thoughts.

Come to think of it, you might find the stately homes thread some use, OP. Worth a look at any rate. And it's free!

op I just read the whole thread! and I wanted to reach in and give you a massive hug.

Your mum sounds very very nasty and maybe she has lost herself in this new relationship, my friends mum hit menopause and it was like a different, selfish, arrogant twat of a person materialised, from the super love caring woman we all knew. It was baffling and hurtful.

It's not you. It's her, to really really is.

Talk to your brothers.

Thank you. And MN hugs needed and appreciated.

Thank you for the replies and reasurrance I keep asking myself what I could have done in the past to have prevented this. What fault do I have which causes fall outs.

It just so happens by bad coincidence that I fell out with two friends recently. These two friends fall out with everybody but in the decade Ive known and loved them, I never have.

I dont fall out with people, believe it or not. I prefer to discuss and over come.

However during the whole ds2s health thing these friends ditched me. I bought it up, they got defensive, friendship ruined.

I keep asking myself if perhaps Ive viewed that and my mum situation wrongly. Perhaps Im the problem after all?

3 suplosedly close relationships all fucked and ditched within months of each other.

I still have good friends but I have no freedom to go and see them so I spend a lot of time dwelling on these broken relationshios and honestky its impossible not to always think it must be me. For sure all three of them would think just that.

Sorry about typos Im not on my phone..
Sorry if I dont reply again tonight, in bed and mega tired.

And as well thank you for your support. I actually wouldnt know what to do if it wasnt for you all. X

Re your friends: try looking at this from another angle. You say that they fall out with everybody, which suggests clearly that they are the problem. But you have a history, courtesy of your family, of trying to make things work with people who are difficult and not reciprocating that goodwill. (That's not a fault in you, that's just a result of how you were treated.)

So you were naturally drawn to people like them - we tend to replicate what we have learned about relationships in our families with our subsequent relationships - and you tried very hard to make it work. Just like you did with your mother.

But as you've got older, and, crucially I think, now that you're a mother yourself and particularly now you have a DC with high/special needs - you've had to change the way you deal with these people. Things have been thrown into relief and you haven't been willing to just accept being crapped on. Which is a good thing!

They let you down. You challenged them. They didn't like it. You lost their "friendship". But tbh it sounds to me like their friendship wasn't worth having.

Of course it's hard for you not to feel like it's your fault when it happens three times close together. But if you can see the things as connected - ie your experiences with your mother led you directly to be friends with people who were similar to her, and who, like her, would dump on you and blame you... Then it stops being some kind of proof of how bad you are, and instead becomes part of a bigger picture of how you have been let down by people you thought cared about you.

Sorry if this is too wordy to make sense; I am too tired to post coherently! Should have gone to bed ages ago! Have another hug. Glad our support is helping

Hi OP - I just wanted to dip in and say that I've read the thread and IU think your situation is really really sad. I feel so sorry for you. For what it's worth, I think you sound like a very nice, caring, emotionally intelligent woman.

I think that talkinginthedark speaks a lot of sense there.

It's a lot to come to terms with. xx

Family1234. I'm so sorry it went that way. I'm sure you are massively hurting and when the dust settles will just want desperately to resolve things. (Human nature)

My advice is to not chase this but to leave it. There is nothing to be done here but to protect yourself and your emotions. Focus on your family and you. This doesn't have to be final but you do have to accept that you cannot fix it on your own so must accept it for now.

Being the person trying to take responsibility and fix it is as darkness says something that has been created in you from childhood. It sounds as if this cannot be fixed right now because it does take two The second party here (your mum) isn't going to meet you in the middle yet.

You sound lovely and caring and massively hurt and confused. This feeling won't last. As the famous saying goes...this too will pass. Many of carry grief over relationships and it can take several years for that grief to settle to a manageable emotion. But it will. Don't allow yourself to feel responsible for this please. That's not a positive thought and will not help. Force yourself to stop analysing and just live. Take each day with your DC as a new day and focus on making it a good day. Turn away from your past. That is the way forward.

Oh Family; what an epic fail. On her part. Not yours.

From your posts, and you being able to identify these issues, it is not you. Telling you it was your fault your parents split is hugely disturbing to a child; it is never their fault as they didn't choose to be in that relationship so it can never be their fault.

I agree that you may have subconsciously found these friends who fall out with people because that's your natural state - but anyone who drops a friend and falls out with them because they have an ill child; is not normal. Not normal at all.

Thinking of you today x

What talkinginthedark wrote in its entirety. This poster is bang on here.
You subsconciously chose people who dumped on you like your mother has done; they were never true friends of yours.

I am so sorry this has happened to you but it was always the case that in a straight fight your mother would continue to choose him over you. She is in this relationship for her own (selfish) reasons and gets what she wants out of it. I would care for your own self and family unit now; both these are far more important than your at heart selfish mother.

Not surprised either to see that your mother's own childhood was itself messed up and dysfunctional either; she learnt a lot of damaging stuff from her own parents that she simply carried forward into her own adult relationships so it is not altogether surprising that she is with an abuser now (he is probably on some levels very much in nature like her own mother was).

Family,
don't waste any time searching for reasons why you have caused this, you haven't.
You are conditioned to take the blame. I have been there, and it takes a long long time (and no contact) to realise what happened. A mother abusing the relationship with a vulnerable child to make her feel better.

Sending you hugs.

Thank you.

I have taken a screen shot of the recent replies after last night because I need to make myself read through them again at 3am or whenever my brain chooses to have a wobble. And doubt.

I felt angry and strong last night but today I feel lost and weak.

DS2 was up all night, waking every few minutes. I havent slept for more than an hour at a time for weeks, probably months actually.

Their Dad, my ex is working away but Im trying to force him to find a place to live. He doesnt live here but he has NFA and its wearing me down.

I feel shit on by everyone from a very high height.

Before last night happened, I always intended on concentrating 2014 on my and the children and making positive changes.

I may feel sad and pathetic after last night but it has only strengthened my need make my and my childrens life better.

Its been a hideous couple of years, really dark and problematic and frightening (healthwise, nothing we could have done about it) but despite this, despite my mum and despite my two friends I honestly see light this year.

I can see change, despite them. Or in spite of them perhaps.

I cannot put into words how much I appreciate your support, understanding and guidance on here. Thank you.

OH SHIT how do I deal with this, she just emailed me.

She simply said "Are you going to stop me seeing [DS1] and [DS2]?"

What do I say???

Fact is the children and I come as a package. Shes already said she feels I would be punishing her if I stopped her seeing the kids.

Shes never had them to stay. We see her in the summer once and at Christmas and once she will come down here for the day.

So three times a year, as a package.

Is she expecting me to see her when I said I never wanted to see her again or is she seriously expecting me to drop the kids of at hers and turn on my heel?

Neither will happen. But I dont want her to play the victim and her say 'you are using them to punish me'

When I was 10 she fell out with her mum, they had no contact for 2 years. My brothers and I never saw grandma either...

I would put all her e-mails now into spam and not reply to this e-mail of hers. Such people like your mother always want the last word anyway.
This will not end well if you enter into any further correspondence with her. She is adept at piling on emotional pressure isn't she.

As you rightly state you and the children come as a package.

She has no automatic right in law to see her grandchildren, apart from anything else she does not sound at all interested or concerned in them either. If she cannot behave decently towards you (and her behaviour throughout has been poor) she does not get to see her grandchildren. There's your boundary right there.

Also why would you want to expose them to such a poor example of a grandparent let alone her abusive H as well if they were to visit there?.

You have qualities that your mother has never possessed; insight being one. Also you would not ever act like she has towards your own children so do not be afraid that you have inherited their own dysfunctions. You chose not to behave as she has done. Toxic familial dysfunction can and does filter down the generations and to your credit it has stopped with you. You do not act like they have done although your mother's actions have left fear, obligation and guilt with yourself; a legacy of such damaged people. Your mother and her own mother failed abjectly here by continuing to act out their own bad choices and decisions through their own children.

You may also want to look at the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

looking, given her express wishes concerning you what she wants is no longer something to give weight to. By her and your own decision.

Unless she unreservedly apologises - which tbh is unlikely - and gets rid of her awful husband I think that you need to keep strong as your family unit. So no, she can't see them. They shoudl certainly not be near her husband.

This is not punishment. It's consequences of actions.

you wrote that you were feeling very weak and wobbly. That will come and go over weeks and months unless she can change her approach to you and mend things. Remember, given your son has a life-threatening situation, it is the best thign for him if you are there. You are not the things she says.

Remember also that you are a mostly-lone parent doing all this on your own and with very little sleep. You are doing, actually, extremely well and any human being would struggle even without their mum going loopy.

If possible, can a (real) friend come round for a chat today or soon, and if possible when you are calm can you talk to your brothers?

---

Ok...

So I dont reply at all?

The one thing that makes me sad isnt that I have broken mine and my mums relationship because I feel that has been broken for a while. We havent been close, like we used to in years. Its that my sons wont see their Nanny again, my eldest in particular really likes her. Although he is close to his parternal grandmother so thats something.

So I say nothing?

I would not reply and leave it for a few weeks let the dust settle and see how you feel then.

Do you get respite with your ds?

Be kind to yourself x

I think thats exactly what I need to do, you are right.

Ive just been looking at Stately homes and the excerpts from toxic parents (want to hear something hilarious? I bought her the Toxic Parents book for Christmas. I thought it might help her.) and has done ALL of those things. The denial, the blame, the 'you dont know how tough I had it' all of the examples from the book, she did.

I dont get respite from my son no. I have no help and no break. His dad see's him here but cant take him out. Im trying to push him to find a suitable place to live, hes trying but Christmas got in the way. Im pushing it again now.

Ive also got us on a waiting list for a contact centre which would give me two hours a fortnight break.

And Im trying to help improve my sons health so he can eventually go to play school but I cant see that happening within the next 6 months unfortunately.

Yes do not reply. Any reply from you will be seized on and likely also used against you.

From what you have written your mother seems to have only seen these children twice in a year as it is. Children only benefit from a grandparental relationship when the grandparents are themselves not damaged or emotionally dysfunctional. I do not think that it would benefit your children any to have a relationship with their grandmother given her rubbish behaviour towards you as her daughter.

The book is designed to help the now adult children of toxic parents, not them.

Susan Forward's book was written with you in mind; you being now an adult of someone who grew up within an emotionally unhealthy and thus dysfunctional family.

I bought it for my mum as a child of her own dysfunctional family.

Rather than as the parent and me the child.

I bought it and thought to myself that I was lucky not to need such a book.

Hi family, yes I second all the other advice to just do nothing, glad to hear you're taking that on board. Your DS1 needs you in good shape much more than he needs to see her, and she is being very destructive to you atm. You are not punishing her, you are protecting yourself. And him. And he hardly sees her anyway... And as for DS2, if she can't even acknowledge how serious his health issues are, she clearly doesn't care much for him!

Sorry again to hear just how tough things are for you. The sleep deprivation alone is horrific. Good luck with getting the contact centre sorted and your ex getting a new place. I guess there's no other support available through SS or a children's centre or somewhere? Have no direct experience of any of that (only the sleep deprivation and not to the same extent!) so I don't know what's out there; not much, I suspect.

Am on the run all day now so won't be back for a while, but still thinking of you. Hugs.

Ive just been looking at Stately homes and the excerpts from toxic parents (want to hear something hilarious? I bought her the Toxic Parents book for Christmas. I thought it might help her.) and has done ALL of those things. The denial, the blame, the 'you dont know how tough I had it' all of the examples from the book, she did.

She does sound toxic. :s Im sure there were many good times, but .. maybe you've had to step back and see a more complex, bigger picture now?