I'm an ow

[fuckitanyway]

I'm in love with a married man. He's my boss.

I am also married and have a lovely life. I love my husband and children. He doesn't hide the fact he loves his family and his wife.

I'm a member of mumsnet for about 7 years now - I'm not trolling - Friday night bumsex, Pom bears etc.

I'm not going to make the bazillion apologies I'm supposed to and know I should because it's ridiculous. I'm mortified, ashamed, I feel such a complete fucking moron at times. I keep doing it - so it's inexcusable and pointless and disingenuous to try rationalise it.

No one plans on leaving anyone. He's 24 years older than me.

It started one year and four months ago and now has run away with me.

I have attempted to post this a million times. I was too much of a coward.

I don't know what to do.

I'm sorry to anyone I've hurt. Could you help me? I understand and accept I'll be flamed.

Blushingm - What you say about low self worth and low self esteem is certainly a big part of the reason my OM became involved with me. I didn't know that at the start of course, I learned that about him. And he was wanted by/desired by/special to me. It wasn't a case of him wanting to believe it, it was, and still is to be honest, true, though we have no contact now.

Me? I don't think I have low self esteem but he did make me feel wanted/desired/special and that was intoxicating. Maybe I do have that problem but I just don't realise it yet.

Hey you're entitled to your views Higgle but they come from your 'real world' and not everyone else's.

I've worked in male-dominated industries all my life too and have learned that there's no such thing as a 'male perspective'. All any of us have is the perspective of the men that we know and talk to. They don't all speak with one voice.

As for posters being 'open' on this forum, what people write on here isn't necessarily the truth and so posters will still guess why people write the way they do. It's their views in posts that matter though I think, not their experiences. What we write in posts is the only thing any of us has got to go on, after all.

I agree lostdomain

Lostdomain - Of course you marry for better or worse, and you will not have a smooth ride all the way in marriage unless you have a very charmed existence. This should not create a situation where you are not "in love" and don't find your partner attractive and desirable. It is when a couple are joylessly plodding through the mire and being told that that is what it is all about, that is what shows commitment that I begin to disagree. I find the distinction between "in love" and "love" with the labelling of unsatisfactory relationships as indicative of something deeper disturbing.

But Higgle why? We've done our fair share of plodding through. You too probably plod through life a lot of the time, but don't top yourself because it's dull. Why top a marriage because it has a dull patch?
Yes there have been long periods when I didn't fancy DH. He was very grumpy and depressed. I was overweight and knackered. It didn't occur to me to find joy elsewhere (though it was offered). Instead I worked on getting out of my own rut, getting fit again, and giving my attention to DH to help him out of his rut and gloom. As he brightened up and I got fit, we became attracted to each other again. Do you truly not see the value in hanging in there through the bad times? Do you give up on everything that requires a bit of dogged determination?

Even if you're "plodding" that's no excuse to go and shag someone else is it?

... Or eventually decide you chose wrong and admit that to yourself? Not make the person you had children with into some kind of unknowing fool and yourself into a gulit ridden deceiver?

I know a very very good person who had an affair for understandable reasons. It damaged them, their spouse, their children. They should have split up but they limp on.

"understandable" reasons

Higgle why are you disturbed by love being deeper than in love if there's a lack of sexual desire? I'm not suggesting lack of desire is a natural part of married life, or that it shouldn't be addressed, but even if it is gone, there are so many other genuine, deep rooted qualities to long term love: faith, trust, companionship, parenting together, conversation, support, creation of a home, creation of a working relationship. Why give all these up if lust alone is missing? These qualities aren't dull to those who value them. they are really inspiring and uplifting. They enhance life. They are valued and valuable.

Don't fool yourself, walk away now it's never going to be a happy ending. If you can deal with the destruction of your family, his family, a mental/nervous breakdown and losing everything carry on but it's not going anywhere. Finish it, give up, get a new job then no contact your family are far more important. If he leves her and you leave him fair enough but that's never going to happen. Save your family while you can, the fall out is not very pleasant x

I think also - if you think clearly and realise that there is a real risk of losing that person you fell in love with and who loves you, you realise - actually I really do love him/her and I really don't think I could imagine being without them. I love them more than I've realised - I've been really stupid to risk losing them and all for some illicit excitement ,a quick fantasy shag with someone else and a couple of complimentary comments...........

This OM could genuinely be thinking like this. He may want to live happily ever after. He knows his mistake and has vowed to himself if won't happen again - who are you to shatter his life, his innocent wife's life and his kids lives?

You are approaching this from your own perspective - blushing. I am in a marriage which is set for life. We have done 23 years already. There is no circumstance in which my husband would leave me or I him. It is not a great marriage tbh but it is a committed marriage. It would (and has) survived adultery. Marriages have their own identities and terms of reference.

I'm afraid, lostdomain that if my marriage was reduced to the prosaic list you detail - "companionship, support, creation of a home" FFS!!!!!!!!!
These are some of the things that "in love" makes bearable. "Faith" ? what is all that about? I'm afraid that if my life was that dull ( with no sign of change on the horizon) I'd be thinking about Dignitas, not divorce.

Higgle dignitas!!

Arguments - I'm just trying to say there are different perspectives and no one knows what goes on in another couples marriage or in someone else's heart and mind.

I didn't say it was my perspective just another possible scenario

Am finding this thread fascinating. It kind if needs a separate thread though as gone off track slightly.

but blushing that is so sad to read. it's not great but it's committed? so is a life sentence in borstal. why if it's not great and there has already been adultery do you see 'set for life' as a good thing? i find that genuinely sad that you have decided, this is it, it's not great but hey at least it's reliable.

imagine you have to do a feedback interview when you die and they ask you, 'how did you find life?' and you have to say oh it was fine. it wasn't great but hey i made it to the finish line without getting divorced'. it's just.... sad.

lost domain - i agree with much of what you said and i kind of think there's a false dichotomy here. there's a difference between what you describe and the long term not in love, not happy but mustn't fail at marriage so i'll plod on even if deep down we are only together because we lack the courage to be otherwise or have already trodden any semblence of a spirit into the dust.

of course ups and downs and accountable hard patches like a young baby, long work hours, a series of bereavments or financial problems etc. that is different i think to what myself or higgle were talking about.

again with the 'making a house together, security, companionship' etc list i think it's back to whether you feel this neccessitates a romantic partner or spouse and if those things are 'enough' to motivate a lifelong commitment. personally i can make a house and security alone and find companionship and emotional intimacy etc in friendship and get other things from work, spirituality/adventure/etc. to want to be with someone for life, share a bed every night and give up the opportunities of freedom and independence and possibility i'd want more than that list.

in reality i would rather a life of predominantly singleness and self reliance with a rare love affair that made my heart sing than a life of codependency without real love or passion and without the possibility of having real love and passion again through the freedom/possibility to meet someone to have that with because i was married.

values again i suppose - we are all different.

mind you maybe this is where the 'cake and eat it' analogy comes into play. thing is i wouldn't see that as cake and eat it because there's no cake - more like boiled potatoes, overcooked veg and liver.

This thread has gone off at a tangent but, yy Numpty... I too don't see a point in this kind of life. It sounds very much to me like a business transaction and it's not what I could tolerate. Why bother? You might as well be two friends or even acquaintances for all that, who get together to provide certain things in a life lived together. I don't see that as a 'life together' and I know that, if I couldn't change it, I'd be looking to get out.

I think that affairs would be inevitable - either that or a necessarily short (due to legal ties) string of acquaintance-type relationships.

I'd personally rather be alone.

But numpty who are these people who just jog along dully forever? I'm not sure they're as common as you suggest. I still remember the joy and surprise of discovering I'd fallen wildly back in love with DH after a fair few years of living like over cooked veg.

The advantages were: no kids were hurt, no hearts broken, no homes broken, no messy, painful divorces or court cases or negotiations on childcare, no guilt, no bitter recriminations, no sense of failure. Falling in love with him again was a real excitement and surprise, and he was thrilled by all the attention and the good moods.

The point I'm making is that people who jog along dully and do nothing to revitalise their marriage are being lazy. If they have affairs, that's lazy too. It's not the marriage that's necessarily at fault, it's the attitude. If you fill your life, willingly, purposefully, with small and large things, daily habits and bigger events that bring you close together as a couple and as a family, you'll be too busy enjoying what you have to scuttle off and look elsewhere. It takes effort, but that effort yields far greater rewards than the quick rewards of an affair.

Also, I don't know how to explain this in a way that conveys it fully, but the strength you gain from having survived so much together creates a love that is really strong, like the deep roots of a healthy tree. A lot of what people say is not worth having in a marriage is the dull, humdrum stuff. But that stuff happens anyway in life, married or not - money worries, family problems, health, work, friendship issues, concerns about the kids - they can preoccupy us singly or as couples. I know I am so thankful to have DH there to discuss this stuff with and joke about it when it gets too much.

Those positive things I listed that you say you can provide single handed, well yes, and you can also survive the tribulations single handed too. But it is so lovely to have someone constant at your side to ride them out with you too. Someone who is on your side to come home to, someone who takes over with the kids and housework when you are knackered or ill. Someone who will listen and advise when you are struggling with a key decision or telling you to stop twining on when you are obsessing unnecessarily over a small issue. Someone who says - now you need a break - have a drink or go for a walk. Someone who is there to put the DC to bed while you go out with friends, or there to stroll up to the cinema with when you have a sitter. Ordinary life. Nothing fiery about it, but it is healthy affectionate every day.

I've been so wildly in love before it made me almost ill. I couldn't function in real life because being with this lover was so intense. No way could I have made a happy long term marriage with that man, adorable as he is - and we are still friends. There is a gorgeousness about quiet, reliable love. It doesn't have to mean dull. Nothing beats it.

I think small things add up to real, worthwhile, valuable love, immeasurably better than going it alone and having an occasion hot fling that you break up when it starts to get humdrum - but maybe you don't. No idea if the OP is still reading but I don't think we've gone off topic at all. If the OP feels some love for her husband and children she needs to refuel it with the kind of attention she's been giving her lover. She'll be amazed how much more fantastic a marriage is if you put a bit of wholehearted effort into it.

An interesting thread.

You can tell who's had an affair from some of the posts.

I once knew a woman in her 50s who tried to make out she had it all. The big house, the long marriage, the successful children and a reasonably interesting career.

In fact she was a shell of a person who was constantly having affairs that didn't work out. I used to feel so sorry for her long-suffering husband and also her kids. Such a competitive, appearance-obsessed woman who other women found so difficult to warm to and like. Her and her husband had no friends. The sad thing is she thought that people envied her and used to pretend to people not-in-the-know that her life was perfect. But people could tell there was something a bit off about her.

I was reminded of her when reading this thread.

I hope you don't end up like her Fuckitanyway.

yes that does all sound lovely lostdomain - it's hard to see any marriages like that though where that true partnership is happening and many people who stay in marriages with people who don't offer the kind of support and consideration you describe. though reading mn probably doesn't help my perspective

i haven't had an affair btw - worried you meant me hertfordshire.

Lost domain, I do understand what you are saying. It clearly worked for you. My take on that is that it is a reasonable option, but please don't define this as a superior sort of love and promote the view that it is the best option for all.

I have found this thread very interesting as it has made me consider a few points about relationships and marriage. As a society we seem to be moving to more short term, but not necessarily poorer quality relationships, and the old labels and philosophies don't always fit. A long and monogamous marriage has been good for me. If I was 23 again now I'd probably be far more confident in my own ability to run my life and I'd take more of a pick and mix approach - co parenting outside a romantic relationship sounds a sensible way to avoid the conventional difficulties of child rearing for example.

I suppose we never know. Some people stick at marriages that then become more happy, but many hang on in and things get worse. Believe me there is nothing sadder for my staff than caring for a couple still together in their 80's who loathe each other, but have suck together for economic or sense of duty reasons.

I am sympathetic with higgle's view but also agree wholeheartedly with lostdomain's last post about the benefits of a companionable long term relationship. Are both points of view necessarily mutually exclusive?