"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

I just wanted to pop up to wish you all a restful and quiet Christmas.

I find myself in an interesting position at the moment. Grandma has been in hospital again with a heart attack, and Dad... didn't call me. He hasn't relayed messages through siblings. He put both birthday and Christmas cards through the letterbox when he knew I'd be out, and he didn't put difficult messages in them.

Basically, he seems to have worked it out.

I am contemplating, perhaps, maybe, possibly calling him once over Christmas. Just to say happy Christmas, and not to discuss anything with him. I don't like the idea of punishing him. That's not the point of NC. The point of it is to protect me, and now it seems as though I have some level of protection.

On the one hand, I like the idea that I can occasionally talk to him, as long as it's on my terms. On the other hand, he lives two streets away, and I don't want him to see this as an invitation to pop over.

I think what I'm trying to say is, I respect him much more for accepting my decision. That's a first. That is literally the first time in my life where that has happened.

Easy now, he's possibly just withdrawing to make YOU crawl back. The GF thing sounds like he's excluding you.

Go and see your Grandad (if you want to)

ha ha, and I saw your restful and read it as resentful

If you contact him it will just mean that you didn't mean anything about him not contacting you again. You will be going back on your own promise to yourself and they will be even harder to break away from next time.

You've don't what you have set out to do - don't back track now.

*done, not don't.

No, no, I really don't want to see Grandma. She is the source of the abuse, and she's manipulative. Some of the Dad stuff started going wrong when he popped up to insist I rush to see her as she was dying. The woman's over 95 and it's true her heart is weakening, but...well, she's 95.

He hasn't spoken to her for most of the past 15 years or so. He started talking to her again about 2 years ago. There's lots of hate mail on both sides, but now there's another truce. Anyhow, 18 months ago he got all forceful because she only had 2 weeks left, so I must visit. I told him no. He got more and more forceful and I said no. This year, when he did it again, I pointed out that she'd had 2 weeks for the past year. She has a habit of calling the dying card and everyone is expected to rush to her.

Dad and I have a difficult relationship outside of that. He's less manipulative (he tries, but he's just not bright enough, he pointed out she's leaving me money, as if he could buy my attendance), and more forcefully controlling What he says is what he expects to happen, children are meant to obey, rules with his fists.

So the fact that I absolutely refused to jump to his will and visit his mother upset and confused him. He wouldn't hit me now, he's not that stupid; he knows I'd call the police, but it clearly makes him agitated.

Now, he does seem to have worked out that I can make up my own mind.

On the other hand, I don't know what I expect to achieve by wishing him a Merry Christmas.

It's sort of like, I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to do as he says any more, but I don't want to hurt him.

I haven't actually ever told him to not contact me. I just won't contact him, and he doesn't bother with me.

I have namechanged for this as DD is a bit snoopy. I have a kind of AIBU for Stately experts.
DM is a full blown narc. She hates me and is NC with me which is a wonderful relief. Just to paint a full picture she was NC with her own mother, even when she was on her deathbed, and is also NC with her only, wonderful and kind sister and has been for 20 years.
She lies, manipulates, triangulates and is totally toxic. I made an enormous mistake in breaking 7 years of NC with her when I had my DC, and my DD, 16, is now enmeshed with her to the point of no return. DS, 13 is immune to her but that may be because DD is the Golden child and DS is the scapegoat.
Anyway, Dh and I are divorced but amicable. DM is spending Xmas with my DB and his family, who live near XH. The arrangements for this year were that I would have the kids all of Xmas Day and he would have them Xmas Eve and Boxing Day. DD has suddenly said she wants to go to XH at 6pm on Xmas Day and sleep over there. She never wants to sleep over there and I am convinced this is DMs way of ensuring she gets to see DD over Xmas, and, more importantly to her, that this will infuriate me. I reckon she will just ask XH to drop her at my brothers so she can see toxic Gran.
My feeling is that as DM is NC with me, she should not be able to play happy families with my DC on Xmas Day, especially by stealth. I have spoken to XH about it and he says he will try to dissuade DD from coming over to his Xmas Day but "if they insist he won't turn her away."
DM sees DD regularly and has already given her her present.
Relations between myself and DB are fine but he will roll over and do whatever DM wants and think nothing of how it upsets me.
Am I being unreasonable being wound up by this?

I don't think you're unreasonable at all, but I'm not sure precisely what you can do about it. At 16 your daughter is going to do what she's going to do. It must be gutting though.

Now my mums boyfriend has text me. He never normally gets involved. This is what he said
"The way you and older sister are treating your mum is a disgrace. Whatever you think she does not deserve to suffer like this. You have ruined Christmas for her and young sister. One day she won't be here and you will regret all the years you wasted with petty arguments. Whatever the problem is, sort it out. Life is too short "

My gosh. This is a man who since meeting my mum never sees his own 3 children. Had to leave the family business. My mother also caused a rift with him and his brother and brothers wife. Then he cut his mum off for at least 7 year s and only just got back in touch partly due to me because my mum has caused all this and she denies it all. Then I guess she always asks for money off people so maybe she was short of cash so encouraged him to get back in touch. He looks so unhappy and downtrodden.

Same things happend with my dad and his mum and family. He wasn't allowed to see his own mum so didn't and saw her in secret without mum knowing, he's also a weak man who such accepted this. Then she denies she had any involvement.

She did the same with another boyfriend too before she found her current one with his mum. She tried to cut off money that he had always given his mum to help her out. Then when she got with current one she cut off child support to his 3 kids for a while before CSA made them reinstate it.

She prays on the weak it seems.

Are you sure it's from him, Bedtime, and that she hasn't borrowed his phone?

All you have to do uis stick to the plans.

Is your XH on board? Ultimately your dd is old enough to make her own plans. You may have lost her, but you don't have to encourage the relationship.

Tough call. I hope it goes ok.

Can't your ExH get a bit stroppy? No, the plan is xy&z and we'll stick to it.

Ywhat would be the result if you sat dd down for a proper chat about your decisions and the reasons behind them?

Thanks lookingthrough She cannot get there under her own steam which is why she is manipulating her father to take her. I am hoping he will stand firm but you are right. I will have to stand back and act disinterested and unbothered if that is what actually happens.
bedtime, do not answer that text. Any response will be happily received by her as it will show she has sucked you in. Ignore, ignore, ignore.

Bedtime, text back 'you may mean well, but a bit of advice, don't get involved in things you have absolutely no understanding of. Please don't send me messages on this subject again'

I had this from mum's H. And the above was what I told him.

Ok so he resorted to bullying, but that was his decision.

Having given the matter more thought (and having listened to you lot), I will not call Dad.

I think I'm just having one of those difficult urges of wanting something that simply isn't there.

Also, I was with my family yesterday (Mum, her sister, my siblings), and I found it very difficult for all sorts of reasons. This came up; BigBro was quite stern about the whole thing, and I got the impression that he felt he was having to deal with the whole thing by himself (Sis won't see her either). But then, I suppose that's his choice.

..or ignore and change your mobile number...

Hissy, I've just had a look at your Christmas thread, and thought 'Oh! FOG! That's why I want to call Dad...'

So thank you.

I wouldn't reply bedtime. Hard though. I bet your heart is racing.

Hampton I'm not surprised you're feeling cross. Yanbu.

Even though you're seething inside I guess you need to try and show it doesn't bother you and not get sucked into this game she's playing. I hope DD stays with you but if you can't dissuade her, then try and release her to enjoy her time there, without showing how upset you are. Then if DD is quizzed about it, she can say you were fine. And you won't be part of this game of hers to get to you. Iyswim? It won't have worked and you've risen above. Trouble is with your past history with her and the fact she's now using your DD against you, this must be incredibly hard. I'm so sorry.

Fog, I thought that's why you'd chosen your name! How funny!

I may flood the board start other handholding threads as for many, for different reasons, christmas isn't the season of goodwill to all, and i'd hate for anyone to feel desolate and alone when they really don't have to!

Really upset. Got text from my brother saying he has been to my parents house and he's had 101 questions about why i didn't send an xmas card (been NC since May). Dad was upset and refusing to go to their wedding in April because of this. Get on well with my brother usually but as he has been able to emotionally detach from a lot of their shit he finds it extreme that i cut all contact. He has not mentioned this to me himself directly though and NC hasn't affected our relationship. But obviously now my bro and fiancee are both upset and i don't want their wedding day to be spoiled by this. I think dad is really selfish to be making bro unhappy and threatening to go to their wedding. If he was a good dad he would just suck it up and wouldn't miss his wedding for the world. Whilst i am completely clear that this is emotional blackmail, the message is clear: continue NC and we ruin your beloved brother's big day! Tow the line ... Or else... Utter bastard!

You need to talk to your brother about what your decision is and why.

You then need to make sure he understands that they are more than capable of doing the right thing by your brother, and that their decisions are theirs and theirs alone. Neither you nor your db can make them do anything.

DB would be better off with the tried and tested 'well, if you don't want to attend our wedding, that's a shame, but it's your decision' and then they leave it at that.

This is a dick swinging competition.

Of course the other thing to let slip would be.. lord knows what we'll say when others ask why my own dad doesn't come to he son's wedding, but if we shrug, they'll soon come up with something all by themselves.

Twats like your parents care passionately about their image, so the chances of them publicly looking like Twats by not going to their son's wedding are, imo, slim.

Big balls are needed here. Big balls will win the day.

Yes my heart is racing I feel shaky and internally angry. It feels like bullying but am I being over sensitive? Is it?

He just sounds like my mum and how she says things. So she could have got his phone but then she knows if I text back then he will see all of that so would she risk that? Has she told him to write it? Or wrote it from his phone? Hmmm Im not sure but either way it's her causing bother again.

She's also told me she's coming round Christmas day. She's going for a meal just up the road from where I live. I'm dreading it. Now she's bringing the boyfriend into it, she's over stepping the mark more than she normally does. I don't want her too as I don't want gifts or to meet up right now. I think I'm going to get my husband to move his car so it look like we are out. Turn lights off etc round about afternoon time.

Your db would be better off getting angry with your DF and telling him to stop being a prick or he'll be uninvited.

Your DF needs telling that IF he behaves he comes, if he continues to bully, bluster and bs you both, then he can stay at home.