"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Feeling rubbish at the moment, just blocked all calls and texts from dm. Just had enough I guess if being let down over the past 28 years or so. Parents are long since divorced and dad passed away about 10 years ago now. I was NC with him anyway. Both my nan (who raised my brother and I since I was about 8) and my brother are both NC with my mother and I was the only person she had really. My husband is not willing to be in her company either.

Throughout our childhood dm was extremely selfish and had a problem with drink. Police were called to our house on dozens of occasions for violence involving her partners are random 'guests' and eventually SS removed my brother and I. I went vale and tried to live with her on a couple of occasions but things certainly did not improve. On a couple of occasions she hit me , smashed a plate full of food over my head once. When she had been drinking and I was in bed, she would come into my room and start with a barrage of verbal abuse, calling me all the names under the sun. I left the house on a number of occasions and called my nan to come and rescue me / and my brother.

Apologies for my disjointed writing ... I struggle to articulate what the problem is and I don't even know why I am posting ... I booked a day off work today and she was due to travel 20 minutes by train to see my toddler and I but she text at 7am saying she was too unwell to come. I have lost count if the number of times this has happened over the years. She has done this the last 3 times she was due to meet me. She also did it Boxing Day this year - and has done it many times on Christmas Day over the years. I no sympathy left and just do not know what to think.

Over the years I have always done all I can to help her. She came to stay with me and dh twice when she was homeless due to non payment of rent - I couldn't see her go into a homeless shelter. But she continued to drink and verbally abuse us. She does not drink daily - but once a week or so she drinks far too much and is violent and is a violent and angry drunk. She also abuses prescription and non prescription drugs but the doctor continues to prescribe her - rather than (as I see it) trying to deal with the actual issues. I don't know.

So sorry to hear what everyone else is going through. Been lurking here a while.

Ugh!!! Just ugh!!! at my family at the moment! Def going back to NO CONTACT AT ALL.

So sorry to see all the anguish here, but it does pass. more or less.

if there is a shit storm, let there be a shit storm.

Remember this: It didn't have to be this way.

Each and every one of us asked for space, or respect/consideration or time. THEY chose to completely ignore that and continue on to harass us, upset us, hurt us, our family our children. THEY CHOSE THIS.

We are choosing NOT to have to accept it. They won't like that, but they don't call the shots any more. That ship has sailed.

I am myself wobbling wrt my dad atm, I am aware that it's cos I have lost DM etc due to her hideous behaviour, and I know I am looking for another limb to cling to. I kind of want to give him another chance, but then I remind myself of all the shitty things he has said to me my entire life. I remind myself that there is no point in sending pictures cos the only ones that get displayed are those of his DW family or dearly departed pets. NOT ONE of the hundreds of images he's ever had of any of his gc was ever in the house, only in his office above the garage.

i have to carry on carrying on. Trudge, Trudge.

dizzy i think you have to do what's right for you. If that means you and DH recording the texts and going to the police, then that's what you need to do. There'll be support here. You'll need to very clearly say that you want no further contact in any shape or form and for her not to message, visit, mail or email or similar. Then if she keeps going, record everythign and take it to the police for harassment.

I think you're still a bit lost in the FOG actually

If only she said 'im never contacting you again' and meant it huh?

fliss welcome and I'm sorry for yoru childhood, it sounds awful :( may I ask, very gently, what you expect to get out of continuining contact with her?

Meerka, thank you. To answer your question, I do not really know to be honest. I have often asked myself this. I guess it is the fact that she is my mum and that the only other immediate family member I have a close relationship with is my 92 year old nan.

I am not a particularly sociable person either. I work full time and volunteer in the evenings so have plenty of contact with people but few close friends.

I am also conscious that she has no contact with the remainder of our family so she only has me really. Part of me feels obliged ...

Hi Fliss55,

re your comment:-

"I am also conscious that she has no contact with the remainder of our family so she only has me really. Part of me feels obliged"

She trained you well didn't she?

Feeling obliged is also part of FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) that such damaged, toxic and damaging parents leave their now adult offspring.

Your other family members likely got fed up with her and her toxic behaviours and so decided themselves to cease contact. She brought all that upon herself, you even as the last one who bothers with her (and it is also hard being the last one left) should not feel obligated to maintain any form of contact with her. You likely get nothing positive from having a relationship with her.

I would also read up on co-dependency, a good book in that regard is "Co-dependent No More" written by Melodie Beattie. That often arises in relationships where alcoholism is a feature. You also end up enabling the alcoholic and you've certainly done that. Enabling and or trying to rescue though only gives you a false sense of control. It has to be accepted that you cannot save someone who does not want to be saved.
Put your own self first for a change, she does not deserve any of your help and she does not want your help either.

Fliss55,

If you've never talked to Al-anon either I would also suggest you do so as they are helpful to family members of problem drinkers.

Good advice Attila

Having a crisis at the moment with some news. I've been accepted for a place at a university about 100 miles away. The problem is accepting it. If I go, I'll be accused of abandoning my parents and failing to help look after them (which is expected from me since I'm only studying), but, if I don't take this, then I'll have missed my chance to earn what is needed for a decent job with prospects.

My dad has cancer and there is nothing they can do for him now as it is too far advanced for any treatment to do any good. My mum also had cancer but is now in remission. If I mentioned to my mum where we would be moving to, she's likely to be offended that I would even think of leaving her to live in a 'fenian' area (shows the religious bigotry that runs in my family and yes, we're in N. Ireland). She was always telling me that I was stupid and would never make anything of myself. I'm determined to prove them wrong, but I don't think they'll be pleased that they're being proven wrong, because they always have to be right.

This is the woman who kept telling me to wind my neck in when I'd been upset about loved one dying. She used to tell me off for cleaning up after her when she fell asleep after drinking, leaving the eggs to boil dry and explode. She would give me a bollocking for daring to make the dinner and put fresh eggs on to go with the salad we were having for tea. She would also tell me I'm becoming an alcoholic for having 1 or 2 small glasses of wine, yet would never admit she had a problem with drink and on regular occasions, drink up to 2/3 of a bottle of brandy/vodka/whiskey/other spirit. Dad is the man who called me a slut when I came home from a friend's house, after having an all-night jamming session (absolutely no sex involved). These are the parents who think that me being married to DH means they can wash their hand of me.

I'm not going to go on about it because I'll get upset that I won't get any answers or admittance from them. Their usual retort is "well you drove us to it", meaning the walloping I used to get for the slightest thing. I suppose the good thing they have taught me is how not to parent my own DC, which I've done successfully so far.

Congratulations on your uni place . Go for it. Your parents sound dysfunctional and need to keep you as their whipping boy. The uni will not have given you that place because they felt sorry for you! You have worked hard and are intelligent and they have recognized that . You earned it. Look up personality disorders online . Their behavior is not normal .

Chiggers, please take the place! Please, please, please! A huge congratulations from me too!

Chiggers

Well done on getting the University place; this will be a new beginning for you.

What are you planning on studying; a language, a humanities subject, a science subject?. Whatever it is bite their arm off and embrace this opportunity with both hands!!!.

Take the place for your sake and reclaim your life!!. You owe your parents absolutely nothing; they have abjectly failed you and continue to do so because of their inherent and toxic dysfunctions. It is NOT your fault they are like this.

Go for it Chiggers! Go! Don't you dare turn that place down. They won't thank you for it anyway!

Atilla, ironically I'll be studying Psychology , so I'll be happy to help others on here as a person and not a psychologist. There is a dire shortage in the health psychologist area in Northern Ireland and because I have 1st-hand experience of chronic, excruciating back pain, I can empathise. The pain specialist informed me of the gap and literally begged me to continue on with my studies, so they must be in dire need.

Thanks so much for your understanding ladies, you're right. I'm doing this for my kids as I feel I'm the 1st person they see as a role model, so it's my duty to be a good one for them. So yes, my family come first.

I guess all those nights staying up until 6.30am is starting to pay off . Don't worry, I'll be back to update later.

chiggers you know what you want to do, you know your own mind. You know how you will beneifit in so many ways from this opportunity. YOu also know what the only thing that holding you back is - and you know how much they really value your abilities and your long term prospects.

it -does- make it harder that they have cancer. But it would be the action of extremely selfish people to take away your future on the grounds that you are proving them wrong and that you will be in a Fenian area. You can visit them, but don't allow them to slam the lid on your future.

I'd support you in your decision to look to your children and not to your parents, here. It sounds like you've decided to go for it. All the support in the world to you!

Congratulations chiggers!!

How would you react if your DC got into uni? You would tell them to go, to reach their full potential, wouldn't you?

I know that would be be my reaction, regardless of what was going on in my life. Some people just always have to make it about themselves, you're not abandoning them, whatever they might say.

Good luck Chiggers! Thank you for the advice Atilla ... I know you are right. I've just downloaded the book you've suggested so will make a start on that.

Chiggers I'm glad you're accepting the place. Please remember what you posted only on Weds:

"On one hand I feel that I should tell them, but on the other, I am lead to believe that they aren't interested in us, so maybe I should just move and then tell them when we have settled"

Your Dad maybe ill but as they ignore you most of the time, please don't let the FOG get in the way of this opportunity x

Well done Chiggers, not only on being offered the university place, but also having such a clear idea of what you want to do and where you'd like to go with it. From what I understand, a common trait of grown children from dysfunctional families is that they lack direction as they have no clear idea of who they are or what their strengths are. You have managed to overcome that. Good on you!

Can I ask a bit of a WWYD? My mother is seems constantly exasperated that her relationship with me is not better, but rather than trying to work on that and make it better, she just behaves as though this is my doing and is my fault. I'm currently undergoing IVF - we've waited a very long time to get to this point. She has been told that we have been having fertility issues for the last two years or so (though apparently "everyone has their problems" so I'm not really allowed to talk about it). When I first told her she emailed back and said she expected to be kept up to speed with all the developments now she knew, and she would be very upset if she wasn't. Does this sound like a normal reaction out of concern, or does it sound as though she only wants to know so she isn't "left out"? DH told her at Christmas that these two weeks were our IVF weeks and therefore we wouldn't be going to his nan's big birthday (another story!) so she did know that we had finally reached this point. I haven't had a phone call since Christmas, save one, nor a text to wish us well, nor a card, nor an email - nothing. I received some flowers the other day with no card, and stupidly I thought they might be from her. I sent a text with a photo of the flowers to her, and to my sister in case they were from her, saying "If it was you who sent these thank you very much - they're lovely". Turns out it was DSis. No answer from her. But then a call in the evening: "I didn't sent the flowers, not from me." No worries I told her, I'd tracked them down, it was DSis. Then this hurt little pause: "So, why is she sending you flowers?" I reminded her that it was our IVF at the moment, wasn't it. "Well I didn't know." I said she did know, because I was there when DH told her. Instead of an "Aah sorry, I didn't realise it was THIS week, so how is it going and how are you feeling?" or similar, she launched into a self justifying tirade, but I broke her off as I couldn't handle her and didn't have the headspace for a big scene. I said I would speak later as I was cooking and it was burning (true). Later on I had a dreadful drug-induced headache (side effects) so I texted her and apologised, saying I was going to bed early as I had an awful headache brought on by the drugs. No answer. I know exactly what she's doing - sitting at home, stewing self pityingly, and thinking how awful her family is.

I dread having to call her. There will just be all this self pity and defensiveness to deal with. My heart is banging just at the thought. Should I call just to get it over with? She's sulking that I haven't been giving her a detailed up to the minute report, and feeling annoyed about the flowers. At the moment I want nothing to do with her, but she's my dad's carer who has dementia.

Chiggers Loving parents would rejoice that you have gained this wonderful opportunity.
It is sad they are unwell but you personally are not responsible for them. Help will come from NHS etc as they need it.
Uni terms are not long and you can call in when you are not studying but there is no obligationto live near them.
Look to your future and see that they are not deserving of sacrifice from you. Obviously you go where you are studying. Enjoy that and move on.

Hester

You would not have tolerated any of that from a friend and family are truly no different.

Do not call your mother!. She is toxic and you are still very much in a FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) state with regards to her. You need to detach and detach from her further.

She is not interested in you, only the "drama" associated with you undergoing fertility treatment. She wants that and that alone.

I feel for you in that your Dad now has dementia but he never protected you enough from his wife's mad levels of behaviours when you were growing up. He like many weak men married to such women acted primarily out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He acted as a bystander. Such women like your mother need a willing enabler to help them and she found that in your Dad.

Hester don't call your Mother or sister.

I know you know about fertility stuff Attila :)

Dontstep, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. My sister and I are fine. We keep each other sane. We love each other a lot.

I don't know, it's so difficult to step back entirely. She would simply be hurt and puzzled as she couldn't contemplate why. I can't abandon my dad. But I certainly can a bit at the moment. This bit has nothing to do with her, or her ego.