"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

*possiblities as in possibilities that his mother isn't what he indeed fears, toxic & nasty.

Pumpkin - I'm glad things do sound more positive with you and you are heading in the right direction. These things aren't easy and things take time but you can't go on forever. I think seeing a counsellor might help him. I am looking for one again myself. I think talking to someone neutral, no judgements, validation will help.

On another note I've been in contact with my dad tonight. Gosh it's a tough one. He was nice in places but still had the odd dig. He said things like what do you want me to do ? And that he would like to see me. He's recently retired. What should I do? What do I want from him.? What do I say?
I think he does miss me. (Maybe ) is there a way of resolving things? Or am I being a dreamer. I think I am beginning to accept he is never going to be dad of the year and he has his flaws but the things I don't need in my life and want to stop him doing are things like the critiscim, guilt trips, victim mentality all the time. Wanting me to basically entertain him when I have my own life and he doesn't respect that. I've got my own problems that need sorting. His are mainly not and just him moaning. He acts like a child most of the time , this has to stop. I understand I will never get much help or support, even the basics but he has to understand that I can't be there for him all the time and him making me feel bad
Is it worth trying to sort out? Can it be sorted?

How do I approach this?

I was thinking maybe writing everything down . Then working out what I want. then possibly telling him the things that have to stop!
I was also thinking is counselling for family's worth a shot? Should I work with him and a counsellor to get across what's hurt me and what my boundaries are?

I just feel happy in a way that we had an okayish conversation and he asked me what he was to do. I felt a bit more validated but I'm also scared. My stomach feels nervy .
Thing is I love him very much but know he has not brought me much happiness to my life and a lot of pain. Why am I happy? Why do I want someone in my life that has brought a lot of pain, but I do seem to want this, can things change?

Pumpkin - it's hard so hard to close door on parents. I can see why he wants to share news. I know it's more being in a bubble and suppressing things his mother has and does do. It's so easy to suppress but not forget. It's easy to just think of this happy family that we create. Like the ones you see in Christmas films. It's hard to accept that will never be. Christmas and special events are just a reminder. It's hard but all about finding a way to accept things the way they are. Facing the reality is very painful. Like grieving.

Does he ever get resentful towards you because you and the kids see your parents and get along. I think you mentioned you have a good relationship with your family. That's hard, because my husband has what seems like healthy relationship with his family where as I don't and I have to admit I do get angry at times, that it isn't me and that's what I long for. Does he get like this ? I would never wish this on him. can you imagine if we both had unhealthy relationships with parents. That would be so tough.
I long for a family Christmas with both sides together sat round the dinner table on Christmas Day. I know that not all people get along and my mum and dad are divorced so can cause issues with new partners in family etc and you know everyone has there flaws but just having everyone together would make me very happy. That would be a dream.

Hi Bedtime

I read all of your post with great interest and have picked out this part of your comments:-

"I was thinking maybe writing everything down . Then working out what I want. then possibly telling him the things that have to stop!
I was also thinking is counselling for family's worth a shot? Should I work with him and a counsellor to get across what's hurt me and what my boundaries are?

I just feel happy in a way that we had an okayish conversation and he asked me what he was to do. I felt a bit more validated but I'm also scared. My stomach feels nervy .
Thing is I love him very much but know he has not brought me much happiness to my life and a lot of pain. Why am I happy? Why do I want someone in my life that has brought a lot of pain, but I do seem to want this, can things change"

Definitely write everything down and work out what you want particularly with regards to boundaries.

Its a NO from me with regards to counselling though, your dad would likely never agree to this and would also never want to sit in front of any counsellor anyway. Other people on here have tried counselling with their family and it simply has not worked. Counselling for you solely though would perhaps be helpful, you need though to work with a counsellor who has no bias in keeping families together despite ill treatment.

Your Dad to me seems like he has given responsibility to his actions to you, what he has actually said is a cop out. Has he actually taken any responsibility for his actions, he has not nor has accepted any blame for same. If he cannot for himself work out what the problems have been that is his fault frankly and not your problem to carry. He is truly a weak man who does not deserve at all to have you in his life in any form. He acts like a child most of the time because he is still in some ways child like; that's likely his parents doing. But he is an adult now and you are not his parent. I am sorry that he and your mother failed you and also continue to do so.

You probably still hope somewhere that he will see the light and admit to you that he really did mess up. It will not happen but you are still clinging on to that fantasy.

It was my birthday earlier this week - didn't receive a single card from my family, though my siblings text me... No aunts or uncles or anyone. Beginning to wonder if this is due to nc with my parents or just an unlucky coincidence (though never happened before). I may be reading too much into this but i feel a bit cast out, and my brother has never not sent a card so wondering if this is him making a point about how cruel it was of me to not send an xmas card to my parents.

Still not has the opportunity to talk to him re dad and the wedding but part of me feels really unwelcome now at the wedding, as though i am just seen as causing trouble. Some days i've been ok, but others i've felt really down and just want to withdraw from everyone, its too much effort.

I also really need to arrange going to visit again soon, and i know it will be best to talk to my brother face to face. However, before all of this i was due to stay with my brother but don't feel like that is a good idea, but feel bad about changing plans/ reading too much into things and asking my sister instead. Maybe i could go for a brief day visit instead (3 hour trip each way) with my husband. But i just don't know what to do for best, so just keep doing nothing instead. I'm beginning to think that feigning illness for the wedding may be the way to go, but also aware that doesn't solve anything.

Also occurred to me that the reason why my dads family ignored my birthday is that they are just hearing my dads sob story. Obviously they won't say what has really happened, but dad is probably just saying how im not having anything to do with them anymore, how upset he is etc. so obviously they will think i am being cold-hearted. He turned his back on me, yet he is the one crying and getting all the sympathy! I know not everyone agrees with nc, but the truth is a bit different to my casting as a heartless, ungrateful daughter who has cast her parents out for no apparent reason. And yet it is dad that is worried about going to the wedding? Should be me that is creating all the fuss, cos at this rate i will either end up uninvited or being blanked by everyone there.

Also supposed to be going to the hen do, in March but i wish i hadn't said yes now. What excuse could i come up with? Just don't feel that it is appropriate somehow.

Sorry I need to off load

Im sat here trying not to cry in front of my children from a jorrible phone call from my.Father which ended in him hanging up on me.

Its my ds 5th birthday next month. I remain in phone contact with my mum and I invited her to stay the week so she could go to his party. This turned into her and my Father coming over for his bithday. I booked the party yeasterday and it will be held on a Sunday. Today my Father calls me and said "This is plan A and there is no other plan B. What time is the party" me 11 him " the only train leaves (there town) at 10 on a Sunday so we will not get there till 12pm" me well we will all be in the party at that time 30 minites away".

"well thats the only thing we can do so you pick us up them or we dont go". Me "You are welcome to stay the night here and come over Sat and come with us" Dad "No I have a dog I cant do that". Me "Thats ok you can bring...." Dad "No I said that there is no plan B" Me "why are you not listening to me?" Dad "Forget it we are not coming over Saturday" me "Fine dont come. My ds doesnt know you anyway so it doesnt matter if you are there or not. Save your money and dont come"

Then he hung up on me.

I called back and my mum answrred and told me my dad said I had a 'funny turn' and he had to hang up on me I told her we could pick them up and they could bring the dog and she said they would have to discuss it and then my Dad shouted NO I not going for the weekend I told you. So I said my mum is invited to stay and she said she coludnt leave him on his own.

Its about my kids birthday not them. I didnt shout at him or raise my voice but he was in fighting mode from the off and I told them its ok not to come its fine by us if they cant come but.its still a big drama.

Im so upset that he shouted at me and hung up on me and then tried to put the blame on me. There was no need for any of it and now im upset and angry that they have done it again.

My dh thinks I should tellthem I dont want to have any contact with them again.

millyMollyMandy, it really would be best not to avoid your brother. it will make things seem way worse and it will give him the impression you are cutting him out too. Your father may well be giving him entirely the wrong impressoin and it might be hurtful for your brother to think that you're ignoring him.

Do think you need to write or talk to him and lay out the situation from your side calmly. Otherwise silence will only make things worse.

Naked, sorry about your son's birthday party :s.

Tiger, result! Two idiotic people are not going to screw up your ds birthday!

Leave them to it and don't take their calls.

Your dad hung up on you! How dare he! He doesn't get to dictate your son's birthday party! You tried to be accommodating and he threw it back in your face.

He gets the train and calls a cab. He gets there when he gets there. Or not.

It's a party for your ds and his friends! At that age often it's drop and run! You don't need adults cluttering up the place!

Be strong, listen to your dh! :
;)

Milly, leave your family to it! Don't plan visits, do your own thing, go somewhere else for some down time! You're allowed! :)

Im angry at myself for inviting her, I know it was stupid. I was being polite and normal and you cant be with people like them. I have to be so careful in talking to her, its hard work.

I know they would not come and im ok with that its the drama they cause, instead of just saying no sorry we cant make it sorry!

They have to make it my fault and make me feel bad for living 90 miles away, not having his party when they want.

Sod them.

My ds is not bothered as I have limited the contact. Go me!

How's everyone doing? I've not had any nonsense from my mother lately, which is nice. However, I have had what I consider a very cheeky request for a favour from the person I hid on FB. I misunderstood the nature of it and accepted and now feel I can't get out of it, but it's pissed me right off. I'm being cryptic as she used to come on MN.

Tiger .... textbook narc response from your dad . If its not about him , hes going to create upset .

Id like to say im sorry you had to deal with that , but your ds will have a great party regardless of who is or isnt there .

Good ... of course you can always message back and tell them , sorry , when you checked your diary / appointments / work rota it turns out you cant help after all ?

Dont feel pressured into anything . Remember Its not wrong to say no , sometimes its right thing as it preserves your sanity !

Gah! I'm confused now!

My nan came up at the weekend, and we all went for a meal on Saturday, me, DP and our DC, my DM, DSis and her bf, and DU, 'D'A and their DC, and my nan.

'D'A was super nice to me, even though she usually ignores me then acts the victim saying I ignore her. She said after Xmas that she wouldn't bother with birthdays anymore, but she handed me DPs birthday cards, as it's his birthday on Thursday. Then out came the cake and she brought it over to him while everyone sang happy birthday!

I also discovered yesterday that my cousins ('D'A's DDs) have both blocked me on fb. To give some perspective about that, they are 14 and 9!

I know this is probably designed to confuse the hell out go me, but it's bloody worked!

Have seen the very same sort of pronouncement about birthdays from my BIL and he is a narcissist in terms of personality.

The aunt's DDs are and have also been manipulated here by their mother. Unfortunately both of them are too young to realise that they have been manipulated.

I would stay off FB to be honest with you and you can manage without it, it is a great tool for narcissists generally.

Droves, I know but I feel petty saying no. I just feel it's cheeky, I think cos it's her more than anything. It's hard to explain what she wants as it's quite specific.
DH has got a job interview today! It'll probably turn out to be nothing but it's quite exciting. He unfortunately got stopped on the way there for doing 11kph over the limit where they've recently changed the limit and has been fined 125 euros and lost 2 points!! Said there was a massive queue of cars all being fined. It's on the outskirts of an industrial estate and used to be 70kph and they dropped it to 50kph. He was doing 61kph. Hoping it's not a sign of things to come....

I can see where you're coming from with staying off fb, although, I use it to keep in touch with other family that live at the other end of the country

I don't have my aunt on there anymore, deleted her nearly a year ago as I was sick of her posting boastful things about their DC (she only seems to be proud of them when they've achieved something). Funnily enough, she only let my DU know about that in November. This was the last time my nan came to visit. Really don't think this is a coincidence, she always tries to make it awkward for me to see my nan. She always seems pissed off when I show up though. She's not going to stop me from seeing her.

It will have been my Nan's idea about DPs birthday cake, and she could hardly have said no to this, could she. That would mean revealing her real self to my nan!

I hate the fact that she's always there, I want to not see her but before she came along we were always such a close-knit family. I guess she wants it to look like she's going along with this.

Wobble let her do the cards etc, just never reciprocate.

Fuck what she says/thinks/does. No loss.

Hello ladies happy new year : ) Sitting here v ill with a chest infection that's gone on for weeks now, my dear mother complained over the phone earlier that she was feeling v upset and depressed that I had not been to see her with dd for the last two weeks and that I had not been phoning her enough ( I in fact last phoned her on Saturday for a "chat") I replied that she knew I'd been v poorly and reminded her I had not left the house for 2 weeks, and that since Saturday, 3 days ago, she could always have called me... Seriously?! I'm ill and it's only been 3 days since I called her, yet she honestly thanks I've been unreasonable?! Never ceases to amaze me!!

That's crap beabea! Of course she should have bloody asked you how you were!

I seem to remember being godawful ill. On my own, setting alarms to do the school run cos I was out of it in a fever.

Mum 10mins away. Did she offer? Nope. Calls? Nope.

Fuckers.

Feel better soon love! May all the poison leave your system ;)

I, on the other hand, am basing in the peace that is NC.

No calls, no visits, no letters, presents, nothing.

.......@.... [tumbleweed]

I am wondering if I should send a letter to finalise it.

Well a post card actually. So the postman can read it.

But then, that'd be effort wouldn't it?

I'll just leave it. Not worth wasting the price of a stamp. not even if I sent it from work

Cradlecapgate my mum was worse when ds2 was born . It is my dad's b'day today . I know I am not missing anything. I would normally have to beg to see him. Last year he wanted to see us on the Sunday as he didn't want to have to drive for 30 minutes to see us. I wasn't allowed to choose a gift on my own I would need to check with my mum. I wasn't allowed to cook a meal for him as my mum would . I did manage to make a cake last year but the only response I got was a nodded head when asked if he liked it. It was a fancy cake that took a day to ice. I know that he doesn't want to spend time with me but I find it hard to not feel abit sad that we don't have a big happy family . How can my heart be pulling for a man who let my mum mentally abuse me and tried to split me up from my dh ?