"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

" He has said he might come & visit us at home over school holidays but likes to text me the morning he's going to arrive! "

AKA, "I'm more important than anything you may have planned and I demand that you drop everything to indulge me because I'm your father and you have to respect your elders. Do as you are told."

Mother drama this morning. Do I win the first toxic attention seeking bollocks of 2014 award?

Depends what it is Good. Tell us, get it off your chest and then we'll see about the award.

Goodto it's textbook , they create drama on high days and holidays . Think it's part of the whole " attention all about me thing " they have .

Shrug it off and have a good day xx

Come on Good, let's have it!

Also, highly inappropriate, but can I just swoon at the mere thought of Guy Martin's sideburns. :) ;)

That said sideburns it might be an idea that your dh does pick up for a bit.

I used to get dm calling me weekly, until the police who told her to leave my home told her not to. The calls went on for weeks and weeks, never ever once showing any notice taken of why i'd not actually taken the calls, why i'd never returned any, nor in my calmly worded statement of bewilderment all those months ago. My concerns were not even noted nor acknowledged.

You need a break from them all love, if dh can diffuse it, please let him.

It's sorted now, it was actually sorted without any input from me as she couldn't phone me but still felt the need later to hyperventilate and cry down the phone at me this morning. Off out with the kids for a bit will post later. Xxx

Good remember the tap thing? All complete bollocks!

Don't get sucked in, if at all possible.

Could you and your family go and take a break somewhere? Leave her to it for a while?

At least you get a text! My parents arrive with no warning and expect us to cancel ds1's horse riding lesson that was due to start in20 minutes! Good to know it is not just me that is special!
My lovely parents sent my dcs a postcard again. Nice to be rejected again on the last day of the year. We are nc. Apparently (as I asked DH to hide them from me )they have been sending them every six weeks. I don't understand how they think they can have a relationship with my dcs without me. The reason we have gone nc is because of my mum's appalling behavior to dcs. They know this but choose to ignore it. I am not in a good place. I am not sure why it is bothering me so much.

guy martin this sounds really difficult. Your grandparents - ok grandad and great grandma - may have tried to do something talkign to your parents and failed and not mentioned it to you.

Now, I can really see why it's so difficult. How about a mix of letting DP take the calls and saying to your grandad that you've had an argument with your sister and could he perhaps talk about other things for a bit? Its possible they have much more idea of what you went through than you realise, but may not have realised just how painful the college thing is. (It's also possible that they really are clueless :s )

It would be a real shame to cut him out too when he sounds like the only person who cared at all when you were growing up. It may become necessary in the end, but perhaps it might be easier to endure if the pressure is lifted a bit by a mix of your DP taking the calls and maybe trying to turn the conversatoin to something else when you do speak to him and your sister or something similar comes up.

redmaple the whole bystander thing is difficult. No one interfered helpfully when I was in serious difficulties as a teen until someone suddenly realised how bad it was an offered me a tiny bedroom in their house (I was there the next day iirc). But when, 3 years later, I was in a situation where two children were being seriously abused and I desperately wanted to do something to help - I couldnt. The most you can do is flag stuff up to SS and if they think that it's within acceptable limits, there is nothing else you can do. Parental and specially motherly rights > anyone else.

it is horrible to see abuse happening. But sometimes you are utterly helpless.

She phoned me, hyperventilating at 9.30am. I thought, here we go. Asked if she was OK and she said, I'm OK now, or safe now or something, but all breathless/teary type thing as if there had been some terrible disaster.
Turns out she'd popped into the front garden in her dressing gown to feed the stray cats that come into the garden and locked herself out ad it was raining. So, she'd started crying and screaming help, help in Spanish. The garden is fenced in with a big hedge and there's a full size gate with railings at the end, and she didn't have those keys. So, she couldn't get out of the garden or back into the house. She didn't have her phone.
Some lads saw her and laughed and walked away but then a nice couple of lads stopped and one vaulted over the gate and gave her his coat and called the fire brigade who then arrived in about 40 mins and got the door open.
BUT....when I say locked out, she has a large patio/summer house, like a conservatory at the front of the house that you have to walk through once you're through the main, original door i order to get into the garden. So she walked through the main door, it locked behind her, but then she had the front room (with sofa bed, chairs and a hot and cold air con unit) to sit in. She wasn't stuck in the garden in the rain.
I understand you panic a bit and that she had to raise the alarm in order to get the fire brigade out and the door open again, but always such a fucking melodrama! I mean, surely you can call to someone walking past, make sure they call the fire brigade and then go and sit on your patio in the warm and dry and wait?
Suffice to say she had the firemen, police and even an ambulance out this morning.
I was very calm and said, hmmm yes, hat sounds alarming and suggested she hide a key in the front garden but, dear god, the woan just LOVES the drama. And it's true, it's always a holiday or something, always.

Wasn't too bad as she didn't have the phone on her and couldn't remember my number for anyone to ring me, so all I got was the breathless phone call after the event.
But yes, subtext of...i can't live aloe in this terrible...you abandoned me, blah blah...

alone in this terrible place

OK. Yes, you get the award.

Textbook. They tend to make things more difficult for themselves or refuse to help themselves because of the drama and the need to be the centre of attention.

The guys who helped her must have thought she was a bit demented.

Any one of us would have rung someone to laugh at ourselves. "You'll never guess what happened to me" kind of tale.

Good cool réaction, if she tries to milk it Good just say, yes that was silly of you wasn't it, but it happens to us all, and well it all got sorted out soon enough, hide a key just in case you do it again.

Then change subject.

EXACTLY Hissy. Who on earth behaves like that, the hysteria, the hyperventilating? I think she's got histrionic personality disorder as much as NPd.

Thanks for replies, they mean a lot.

Hissy - hope you enjoyed your swoon Guy Martin is gorgeous

Dh spoke to gdad yesterday, had a nice chat and said that as I was pregnant and busy its not always a good time to talk etc Gdad said he didn't know I was pregnant until mum told him recently - Ive got less than 8 weeks left! Im hoping that dh can continue to deal with the calls for a bit, as I can be hot headed (esp now full of hormones) and I really don't want to blow and say some home truths etc in anger. Im not sure that saying theres been an argument would help - he'd say something to my mum, theyd all group together and itd be 'oh you know what Guys like' etc etc Enough times I have wanted explanations from them but as far as theyre concerned half the things never happened or Ive made them into more than they were. Even before I blocked their numbers I wouldn't hear from them until they needed something or felt guilty, so its not like Im missing their contact. Ive done the last 11 years by myself, got my own family etc I don't need them for anything. A worry I do have (this is quite poss jumping the gun!) is if any of them end up with illnesses such as cancer etc, I'll be expected to be there and I know I'll feel huge guilt to do so (my parents are awesome at making you feel guilty at the best of times) and I don't know how I'll feel if I don't help, someone dies - will I be able to be happy with myself then?

Also selfishly - they have no arrangements in place regarding wills, insurance, funeral costs. Would it be awful of me to have no hand in sorting any of that either? I know my brother would ask me to do it all and once again Id be expected to. They have never put anything in place for me, I don't see why I should be expected to sort and fund anything to do with them. Sorry if that sounds awful.

I am fairly new around here, and have up until now, generally just lurked. I've read a few threads about family relationships and some thing has clicked that I have been living in a fog so I hope it's ok to post.

I'm not sure what to write or how to start explaining the situation, so I apologise if this comes out a little garbled, but I have 40+ years to try and make sense of.

Two years or so ago, I cut contact with my parents, my DF mainly, but it didn't take me long to work out that the one person who I thought understood, is as bitter, twisted and as toxic as DF. If not more so than my DF and his family - although they themselves aren't that far behind. (NC with any of his extended family for 30 years,)

Growing up dsis and I were always aware, and told in no uncertain terms that we were the disliked gc's. We were never allowed to visit, never included in anything, DM was always quick to point out that we were disapproved of by GM because she (DM) herself wasn't good enough, she was inferior, didn't have the right connexions, the right social standing etc and so therefore by default neither were we. This sounds ridiculous I know, but this was what mattered to GM, status, if you didn't have that you're a nothing. The woman lived in the dark ages!

Part of this with GM also broke down to our gender, 2 little girls and no-one to carry on the male line and therefore the family name. I hope this makes sense, but the end result is that I have spent the best part of my life feeling "in the wrong" just for being female.

My GM was an incredibly cruel woman, as was her husband by all accounts, although he died before I was born and tbh I couldn't really tell you anything about him; 6 months ago I realised I don't even know his name as he is never mentioned. The bits I've heard from DM include domestic violence, emotional and physical abuse, relatives that don't 'exist' - family members that have 'died' when they were very much alive...... Dysfunctional family all round really, and perhaps no surprise that DF has turned out as he is.

Relationship with DF has always been wrong, I was brought up in fear, fear of failure, fear of disappointing him, fear of making too much noise, basically just fear.......I'm in my 40's a grown woman with dc's of my own, and am frightened of my DF. If we stepped out of line when we were young, he would stop talking to us, he managed 6 months at one point during my teens, over something trivial.

I have turned into an adult who bends over backwards to make sure DF is ok, I am totally unable to challenge him on anything, and as I have already said, he scares me. I am slowly coming to see that I do it with other people too, constantly worried that they are ok, having a nice time, hate conflict, so I don't handle it well.

Two years ago the straw that broke the camels back and I finally came to realise no matter what I'm never going to be male, and I'm never going to be good enough, and neither are my DCs. I cut contact with DF, mainly, but the limited contact I've had with DM has made me see her in a whole new light. The person I thought understood where I was coming from, is really just as poisonous as he is.

I am now wondering how this all fits together, what is real and how much is just DM.

The thing is dsis is seriously ill, and I've found the parents creeping their way back in again, but their attitude towards her ill health sucks. I am her next of kin, as DP live 100 miles away, so up until now I have had to contact them to let them know what is going on with dsis as she's unable to do it herself. But in future i'm seriously considering not bothering, because they really aren't interested.

I'm not really expecting anything from this post, only to say hi, and explain a little about where I come from, maybe in the hope that others might just understand. Thank you if you've got this far

I guess 40 odd years of feeling totally inadequate, I am now feeling that I really can't and don't want to do this any more, but oh the guilt

Welcome notaboychild it's a headfuck when you start to see what's going on and that it's not you, isn't it?
We're here for any ramblings and advice or just support.

Hi, I am also a bit of a lurker on this thread as although some of my family are completely unhinged I still am able to cope with them most of the time.

Phoned my DM this afternoon to wish her a happy new year. Her reply? Oh I thought you had forgotten all about me! This is the woman that was ferried back & to my house on Christmas Day, I made her an extra Xmas dinner so she could have it again on Boxing Day, I hosted a small buffet lunch at her house last Sunday so she felt included in the festivities, I did all her Christmas shopping & wrapped it, wrote & posted all her cards, put up all her Xmas decorations.

I know this is small stuff compared to what some of you have to put up with but sometimes this bloody woman drives me mad!

I went round just now for a pre-arranged quick cup of tea and she apparently did stand out in the rain with the two nice guys who stopped. For 40 mins. One of them gave her his coat. I bet she didn't tell them she could just sit on the porch in the dry with the heat on until the fire engine arrived. I said, why didn't you sit on the porch and wait and she said, the men might have gone away...I didn't say anything, but they'd phoned the fire brigade, why did she make the poor bastards wait in the rain for 40 mins?

Welcome holdthepage...ah yes, the classic woe is me, poor little me routine.

Hi everyone,

Happy New Year!

For some reason (totally unknown to me!) my DF isn't talking to me! My sister asked me yesterday if I was going to call him and apologise.

My response was: "Apologise for what?!"

I have no idea what I've done but I went on the dreaded FB and he had spouted some crap about how stressful it is having kids and at his age he shouldn't have so much stress in his life.

No idea what the issue is, we spoke on Xmas day dans everything was fine!

Normally I would call and apologise anyway to keep the peace but not this time. I have had enough of this drama where he excludes family members on a whim (he managed to ignore my aunt for a record 18 years!) and I am not going to expose myself to it!

Welcome to notaboy I don't have much advice but hope this thread is helpful to you.