"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Well I don't know what's wrong with me but I'm considering taking the kids and going and staying at my dads house. I think this might be a really bad idea (prob only 1 night) but I can't get the idea out of my head.

Nostalgia snoopy, don't fall for it!

Is that what it is Hissymas?

He's always really quite horrible to me and my kids. The last time I saw him I was in his company for about 3 hours and it was very draining being criticised, being told what to do and having my kids bullied.

We allow ourselves to be sucked in.

I haven't seen my DF for over 2 years. Yet last week, I was driving home thinking that perhaps I ought to give him another chance.

Then I got home, DM was waiting for us with her H, it all kicked off and I had to call the police to get them to leave.

So now i've reconsidered.

Don't let nostalgia cloud the truth.

Snoopy if eh is bullying your kids why are you willing to put them in that situation again?

Because you feel as though you should take them to see him?

Because you want them to have the relationship with him that you dont? Do you think that will change?

Because you feel guilty that they haven't seen him?

If you want my opinion - don't do it.

snoopy don't do it, if not for your sake, for your children.
In the week just after Christmas it will be guilt talking.
Remember there is nothing positive to gain from this and remember the reasons why you don't see him.

None of the above actually!

I want to go for another reason. If I put it on here, I may be recognised as its quite specific!

I have no thoughts of pretending he is supportive family.

I think it's true though that I should try and do what I need to do without placing myself and my kids in that situation.

I have however told him how I feel about him bullying the children. I have told him that it won't be tolerated. Perhaps a better step would be to let him visit us at home because that way, if he starts, we could send him on his way

Then, if he behaved himself, I could consider staying at his at that point.

The problem there is though that I don't like having negative people in my home these days! :-)

The better step would be for you to go and see him if you must but leave the kids at home and well away from him.

in his home, it's his ground. But it's a lot easier to leave.

In your home, it's your ground and you'll be comfier. But I think you should keep to your idea of not having negative people there. Its your sanctury.

I agree with farrow snoopy, you are better off going to his where you can leave at your leisure, at yours it will be harder as you may have to physically throw him out. And definetly get a babysitter for the children, don't take them along.

That's the thing. He lives so far away it's an overnight stay if I go there so this will definitely be something I'll have to put off until another time.

Or never do again. Lol. The last time I stayed there with kids it wasn't so bad though. At the moment, I'm not really in the mood for it all. :-)

Snoopy, if you were going to do it at all, perhaps look for a cheap room nearby (Travelodge and Premier Inn have winter offers on) so you don't get stuck having to stay at his house.

Newbeginning - Can you not meet half way just for an hour or so. Neutral

Neither of those options possible unfortunately but thanks!

Hang on a minute.

If you didn't do all the running around, would they bother to come and see you and the kids Snoopy ?

I don't know why you would bother with him at all, Snoopy.

snoopy don't put yourself through this torture. Start the New year refreshed and try not to let this man control so much of your thoughts.
What is so important that you need to travel so many miles to be with someone such as this?

Hi all, I wondered if I could ask your opinions? I posted recently and made the decision to no nc with my family. I blocked the numbers of my parents mobiles, the house phone and my siblings. Its been about 3 weeks now, and I can see from the blocked number settings that there has been no attempt by any of them to contact me. Not even for the kids on xmas day but that's nothing new there, I don't know why Ive mentioned it.

Anyway Ive mentioned my gdad on here a few times, nice bloke and always had time for me etc however the other day it dawned on me that given the amount of time I used to stay at his house (long story short - he'd moved back in with his mother years ago after a marriage breakup and didn't remarry. So my 'gran' was really my great grandmother) with my great gran - all through school holidays, most weekends etc, theyd have had to have been stupid not to notice things - my clothes, personal hygiene (god sorry this is embarrassing) etc and Im struggling a little with asking myself why they wouldn't/didn't help? Maybe they tried or maybe they didn't see that much of a problem.

Anyway my gdad and I have always kept in touch, as Ive said on other posts, and he often phones me. A couple of years ago he got ill - kept passing out and was very forgetful etc, ended up having surgery for a brain tumour. Now as I've said about my mum its hard to know exactly what was wrong as she'd never tell me much, or get in touch to let me know. He's 'ok' now (touch wood) but still forgetful. Leading up to xmas pretty much every weekly phonecall he'd ask if I was visiting for xmas, Id say no and explain why, only to have to keep doing this every time he phoned. Im telling you this part only as I think him forgetting is relevant to my current worries about the situation. Bear with me!

Ok so Id blocked my mum etc, but didn't with granddad. Then when he'd phone he (obv not knowing the situation) would be telling me about the family, what my sister was up to - how shes going to college next year etc (if any of you recall my older posts you'll know why this touches a nerve etc) just general conversation I know but it was really pissing me off, being told about them all the time. I didn't say anything, rightly or wrongly, and I know its not granddads 'fault'. I had a chat with a friend, told her the whole thing and how I felt about these phonecalls, having to go through being reminded of those lot and how easy my sister etc has it, and my friend suggested blocking granddad too, to give myself some thinking space. Initially I thought I couldn't, but I did and sad to say I felt relief straight away I feel mean for saying that but its the truth. Id see his name flash up on the screen and think 'oh ffs', I sound terrible I know but it was really doing my head in.

Dh is supportive of me blocking them etc, and has offered to phone granddad himself, to deflect things a bit I guess. However I know this isn't really solving the problem. I don't want to go down the route of explaining everything to granddad, I don't want to rake everything up or cause shit between him and the rest of them, and also theres the fact that he'd probably forget anyway and Id be going round in circles all the time. Hes now leaving me voicemails, and Im deleting them - to be quite honest with you I just want them all to fucking leave me alone.

Thoughts please? Sorry this is long xx

Hello all, I'm a first timer on this thread but been lurking for a while.

Sideburns what you describe is a bit where I'm at too. I wonder whether it might be about you just wanting to have the space for your perspective on what happened to stand and be valid? For me, I've been wondering why I've cut off from pretty much everyone in my life these last six months. And I've just realised that for me, its about ideally wanting them to hear where I'm at and acknowledge what they did wrong. But as they aren't going to do that, I want at least to have the space to know for myself what happened and went wrong. And that ain't gonna happen if all my energy is going on them and their different grenades that they throw out when I get too direct, and me questioning as a result of this contact.

So for you and your granddad, yes he was there and wasn't actively abusive, but I am having difficulties with those bystanders in my life, who were there, did see, should have got involved, and for whatever reason didn't. At the moment I only want to have contact with people who really hear and respond, or be on my own. I was always belittled for my distress and told I wanted 'too much'. don't want to be told this again. Don't want to get involved with other peoples deflections and excuses for why they didn't act. Good luck for 2014.

Yes it really isn't worth the hassle but going to his house was appealing because I wanted to gather material for a creative project! :-) (I can say that without being recognised!)

I think I can use previous material so will do that. Also, I will plan a no-commitment visit sometime to do this- just for a few hours. In a couple of months or something. He has said he might come & visit us at home over school holidays but likes to text me the morning he's going to arrive! So I usually have the day already planned! Yeah I'm not going to worry too much about it. He has been very unsupportive over the past couple of years. He has helped me out financially but emotionally he's been a bit damaging!