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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Women watching porn

264 replies

OhGodAmITheOnlyOne · 11/12/2013 20:35

I've name changed and also posted about this in chat, but thought I might get better response here. This is 100% genuine. I occasionally look at porn or read erotic stories because it gets me in the mood. I don't know if DH knows, but I was wondering if it's common, if many women do? Or am I an awful person? Hmm

OP posts:
Leavenheath · 22/12/2013 14:51

Even if we were comparing like with like; uncensored simulated rape, abuse and murder that had as its primary objective the titillation and sexual arousal of the viewer, I struggle to see how anyone could see no problem with that material being available and easily accessible to anyone.

ProfessorDent · 22/12/2013 14:53

The Lucy Mangan ref was a joke, because she is a bookworm who hates Kindle along presumably with 50 Shades, so the combination of the two would get her goat (in a non-consensual way).

Not sure about Moran's comment on porn, as I recall she has also shamelessly commented on enjoying it, actually I think she was complaining about the quality of the porn on offer, much the same as Victoria Coren making a porn movie simply because she thought ill of the ones out there.

And I do think you should read between the lines of what I am saying, society deems it 'okay' for women to fess up to watching it. I am not saying it is ok necessarily. Yet in some ways what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Then again, no one lets off Myra Hindley for her crimes simply because, hey it's okay she's a woman whereas Brady was a bloke, if anything she was given a harder time.

Obviously I take it you are all vegetarian? It's a gross comparison but a valid one I think. Like porn, it's one of those things which is okay so long as you don't think about it. As Linda McCartney said, if all abattoirs had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian (I'm not, but not wholly proud of it). If anything, animals have obviously less say in the fact that they are served up for the sake of a few seconds titillation on the palate. There are similarities; porn is horrible if you think about it, but many people don't.

But I am ambivalent about it at best. On the other hand (so to speak) when it was totally illegal in this country you had people who simply couldn't visualise sex at all, it remained a bit of a mystery to the inexperienced and a bad experience could put a great many off for life as they 'realised' it was not for them.

Leavenheath · 22/12/2013 15:09

Hindley was given a much worse time because she was a woman. There was also the factor though that Brady was a psychopath and Hindley had no mental health issues, despite numerous assessments between 1966 and 2002 when she died.

Do you think it's societally 'okay' for women to fess up to watching porn in a way that men cannot? Genuine question here, as it's got me wondering about the 'cool girlfriend/wife' thing you see in some women, who think that being anti-porn is to be anti-sex. People so often conflate attitudes to porn and attitudes to sex itself, don't they?

Maybe it's deemed 'okay' for different reasons by different groups. There are the ones who think it's okay because they define women's sexuality only in terms of how it relates to men (the cool wife, we've got a great sex life because I'm no prude and I'm so 'out there' crowd) and the ones who defend their use of porn purely in terms of their own sexual identity and enjoyment.

I haven't noticed it being any more ok for a woman to say she uses porn than it is for a man though. I wouldn't judge a woman for using it any more harshly than a man, personally. I think it's indefensible whoever's doing it.

ProfessorDent · 22/12/2013 15:26

I think it is deemed 'okay' because we are still at at stage where society is profoundly grateful, rightly or wrongly, that women can express a healthy even lecherous appreciation for sex. It sort of balances things out. After all, not so long ago, it almost felt like a bloke had to con a woman into having sex, that she wasn't into that, just romance. John Peel the DJ said he was surprised when his brother told him that woman like it too (back in the early 60s) because until then it was felt that there had to be some trick involved.And that cultural attitude almost sort of led to the whole Jimmy Savile sex means coercion stance, and the idea of 'chat up lines' like a salesman's patter.

Of course, you could argue that when I wrote society, I am simply talking about our predominantly male-orientated society.

My point is that, really, Victoria Coren! Enjoys porn, made a porn film, wrote a book about it! Has a chat show on BBC4 and is a Radio 4 type! I really don't think that Paul Merton could do all that and be regarded in the same way, it would be perceived as deeply weird. As I mentioned, some comics can get away with it but must have that alternative, edgy vibe.

It is also seen as less sad when women like porn as sexually they are kind of the source of things whereas blokes are not. Women are the sky, blokes are a comet soaring across it, they just provide the context.

Then again, if Miranda Hart said she liked porn, she probably couldn't get away with it, despite her new sylph like figure, cos she isn't held to be quite so great looking, and not just by a male-based society, I mean women aren't great for the sisterhood either let's face it. So yeah, maybe the 'perception' is simply a reflection of a sexist society.

Spoke to two gals in an office who talked openly about going into a London sex shop. No shame, not sure a bloke would talk that way so openly without getting the tag of weirdo. Ditto torture porn movies, I've only met a handful of folk who have admitted enjoying it, stuff like Hostel 2 and so on and they were all gals, quite foxy ones too. Not like old Myra. Not the slightest hint that there was anything wrong in it from their pont of view, almost like complaining about slapstick cos you see a bloke falling down a flight of stairs and he might hurt themselves, they just see it as a genre. Quite an eye opener from a bloke's point of view, but that's life for you, it never follows the road map the way you think it should.

thisismyYuleTimenickname · 22/12/2013 17:27

Obviously I take it you are all vegetarian? It's a gross comparison but a valid one I think.

I don't think so.

I don’t think women are the same as cows and I don’t think you can compare something as unnecessary as porn to nutritious food.
Humans are omnivores but watching porn videos is not something intrinsic to humans. Liking sex is, not watching modern porn.

I think such talk is used as a red herring, that we can’t criticize porn unless we consume 100% ethical products always.

So users can continue not worrying that they might be watching rape or videos spread without consent, and contribute to the demand of more porn - the porn industry is also closely linked to prostitution and trafficking - it’s all ok because someone who was anti-porn didn’t buy fairtrade bananas?

SolidGoldBrass · 23/12/2013 02:51

Opponents of porn always treat it as a) all the same ie all produced by harming people and b) totally separate from any other category of media or leisure goods. It's neither. Porn is diverse; some of it is happy-fluffy people having enjoyable sex, some of it is putting forward a political agenda ie promoting sexual diversity, and some of it is horrible. And some performers are having fun and eanring money, some are engaged in what they percieve as political activism and some are being exploited and coerced.
And time and time again, people who engage in anti-porn activism either find themselves hooked up with nasty, nasty organisations or actively embrace such organisatiojns as 'being on the same side.' The recent Soho raids demonstrate how little the authorities actually bother about the actual wellbeing of actual women involved in the sex industry - if you want to save trafficked womén, dragging them into the street in handcuffs, inviting the mass media to shove cameras in their faces and up their skirts and shipping them off to the nearesst deportation centre is not exactly kind, supportive or caring.

Lazyjaney · 23/12/2013 07:36

"Many people found fifty shades pretty atrocious"

Judging by the sales, buzz, me too books and a film in the making, I'd guess a far, far larger number of people found it pretty attractive.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism · 23/12/2013 08:06

C'mon SGB, the porn industry has some of the nasty, nastiest allies in the world.

A world of Victoria coren produced porn, feminist porn, SGB produced porn does sound wonderful to me. Sex positive, happy workers, enjoyable sex, equality. What is not to like?

Let's not pretend that is the reality of the porn industry now.

Leavenheath · 23/12/2013 10:33

More straw men from you then, SGB.

After a long thread where many posters have made the distinction between written and filmed porn and some have acknowledged the acceptability of ethically-produced filmed porn that embraces diversity, you say that opponents of porn always treat it as the same.

You then tar all anti-porn activists with the same brush and treat them all the same

It's a massive blind-spot you've got going on there.

Then again, I think posters commenting that the porn you yourself produced would be acceptable, aren't seeing this particularly clearly either.

You've said you have no problem with uncensored rape porn as long as the actors are treated well and your reasons for that seem to be that it only reflects society's misogyny and it's no different to people wanking over a misery memoir.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 23/12/2013 10:42

The recent Soho raids demonstrate how little the authorities actually bother about the actual wellbeing of actual women involved in the sex industry - if you want to save trafficked womén, dragging them into the street in handcuffs, inviting the mass media to shove cameras in their faces and up their skirts and shipping them off to the nearesst deportation centre is not exactly kind, supportive or caring.

I agree with this, it's fucking awful what's been happening in Soho. I think it has more to do with Crossrail than with any activists though. It's a massive leap to say if you don't like porn you're in favour of brothels being raided and women photographed and dragged onto the streets.

SolidGoldBrass · 23/12/2013 15:10

Some more thoughts on the subject from people other than me.
here
and here
and a reminder of what happened last time here

All these links are to blog posts/opinion pieces. There are no explicit images in them.

middleclassdystopia · 23/12/2013 19:02

I've only seen porn a few times.

It looked sore for the women involved. Is it not sore? Repeatedly having sex with no pubic hair? The men are rough and fast too. And it must hurt having anal sex in that manner?

I like to control pace and depth, to feel safe. Being pummelled like that would scare me.

I do get turned on by sensual and sexual images. If the sex was real and consensual I wouldn't have a problem. But I didn't like what I saw.

MerryFuckingChristmas · 23/12/2013 19:06

Did SGB really say she thought acted-out rape porn was A-ok ?

Did my eyes deceive me ?

thisismyYuleTimenickname · 23/12/2013 19:35

It's ok Merry it's obviously only reflecting misogyny between consenting adults Confused

MerryFuckingChristmas · 23/12/2013 23:55

I'd really like SGB to come back and explain that I was mistaken, tbh

MostWicked · 24/12/2013 14:04

*I've only seen porn a few times.

It looked sore for the women involved. Is it not sore? Repeatedly having sex with no pubic hair? The men are rough and fast too. And it must hurt having anal sex in that manner?

I like to control pace and depth, to feel safe. Being pummelled like that would scare me.

I do get turned on by sensual and sexual images. If the sex was real and consensual I wouldn't have a problem. But I didn't like what I saw.*

It's quite clear that you have only ever seen male directed "professional" porn. Where the woman's enjoyment is judged by male standards, so hard, fast and rough, are far more common.

Female directors like Anna Span, have a very different approach. Often you can find a category on sites called "couples porn". This tends to be far more sensual, slow, the pleasure is real. A lot of amateur porn, shot my consenting couples, also shows a very different side to porn. The people are real. Some shave, some don't, but they are not buffed and polished to perfection!

Vivacia · 24/12/2013 14:08

Often you can find a category on sites called "couples porn". This tends to be far more sensual, slow, the pleasure is real.

Unfortunately, of course, the footage may have been distributed without permission, so that some poor sod is having to deal with the distress and humiliation of her private sex life being used by complete strangers to masturbate over and comment upon her.

thisismyYuleTimenickname · 24/12/2013 14:31

Often you can find a category on sites called "couples porn"

Yes, like one of these sites I visited which had a long, long list of misogynist and racist categories like gangbang, teen, latina - and then "Female-friendly" with only a few videos in it. All still male-oriented, only with less force involved.

SolidGoldBrass · 29/12/2013 22:21

Another viewpoint. Again, an opinion piece with no potentially upsetting imagery.

Leavenheath · 29/12/2013 22:59

An opinion which I vehemently disagree with.

Why not nail your colours to the mast instead of posting other people's opinions, SGB?

Do you agree with rape porn or not?

And having stated your opinion, what sort of rape porn do you think gets the most hits?

The sort where the viewer is shown a preamble about how this is fantasy, deploying non-coerced actors who even on film, agree safe words?

Or the type where the rape shown is utterly believable and the viewer is never sure whether it was real or not?

Finally, have you made rape porn yourself or ever had any involvement in it?

SolidGoldBrass · 30/12/2013 23:01

I have no problem whatsoever with actors portraying fictions in any shape or form. is that clear enough?

I just get very tired of all the waa-ing and baa-ing about porn and calls for censorship. Just lookat the latest fuckup. Oh what a surprise, these new 'Stop The Porn' filters are blocking healthcare sites, advice to LGBT teenagers and domestic violence help sites.

If the Government really cared about women's safety, they could start by sorting out the lamentable rape conviction rate, and the family courts that repeatedly insist on giving proven violent men unsupervised access to their DC, and stop cutting the funding to domestic violence organisations. But no, they'd much rather show off how 'feminst' they are by introducing censorship - which is really about gaining control of the internet, not about protecting women at all.

Leavenheath · 30/12/2013 23:25

Thank you for clarifying your position on my main question, SGB.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 31/12/2013 10:35

Some of us have been arguing (not waa-ing or baa-ing) against porn and against ISP level filters for quite a while now.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 31/12/2013 10:41

Quiet clear thanks, SBG.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 31/12/2013 10:42

Quite clear thanks, SGB*