Would you want to LTB?

[Nottynosey]

After a final argument about a sodding packet of biscuits, I told H I wanted him to leave on Sunday. I've had enough of his selfishness, moods and the way he treats me. This has been a slow burner for me, its been simmering since I got pregnant with DD (3).

He wants me to give it one more try. Says I must accept responsibility too. He thinks I have done this because of my interpretation of events and my version of the last three years is not based on facts and its about how I feel. He says we have had a stressful few years and his behaviour is not the reason our relationship is failing.

I accept we have had pressure, which any young family in a recession have, but this is not why I want out.

I know I don't have to justify yourself, but I feel like I do, to myself more than anything. So please tell me, would you LTB or give him another chance (he has already had a fair few)...

I will stick to the facts and undeniable events rather then feelings, but here is a mere snapshot

• When I was pregnant, he would roll his eyes whenever I mentioned a symptom or spoke about it, saying I was moaning and he wasn't going to give me attention

• On the night I went into labour, I was contracting on the floor and he had his head under pillow on the bed trying to sleep and told me to be quiet cos neighbours would hear.

• My friends who gave birth around the same time all got given gifts by their partners, he told me he wasn't going to buy me anything because nobody would buy him anything and its not fair because he can't give birth

• Never helped with nights and wouldn't even give me a lie in on my 30th birthday

• If DD was clingy with me, he would say I was doing it deliberately

• He rejected me sexually for 18 months because he preferred porn

• After we did have sex, I tried to talk about if things were different down there after childbirth as I was concerned and he refused to discuss it because it was gross.

• after another time he said the sex had been hard work and complained about something I had done during foreplay. I've not done it since.

• Didn't want to help when we moved house so booked in extra work. The day before the move, DD and I both got a stomach bug and he refused to help pack

• Would get home from work at 2am and wake me by putting TV on, typing with laptop on his knee and playing music in bed next to me and wouldn't stop so I'd have to go to spare room

• The night before we went on holiday, started an almighty row because I hadn't finished packing when he got in from work (I'd been working too)

• Would give me silent treatment whenever I went out (very rare)

• Very moody and often sits on the settee in silence after a bad day at work

• If I ever tried to talk about things would eye roll, call me a nag or just sit in silence. Or tell me I was being unfair by bringing something up, he said he was sorry and that is the end if it

• Ruins every night/day out we have with an illness or constant complaining

• Has lost all his friends and won't entertain the idea of any social life

• Sits and watches telly and calls some of the women fat pigs and other foul names, which I really hate

• When we went away with his family, DD didnt sleep for two nights, screamed a lot of the time. I wanted to go home a day early as we were exhausted but he refused to upset his mother

• When I told him I felt so low I had been given anti depressants by the doctor and was wondering whether to start taking them, he didn't ever mention it again

• Always trying to stop me eat/drink nice things. He can't cope with too much fun or indulgence. So on Sunday when he wouldn't let me open a packet of biscuits I snapped.

There's more, so much more.
Does it sound like the kind of thing you should be able to work through?

No and I would be making plans to separate. You need proper legal advice and soon. You write also that you have given him enough chances.

Is he actually going to leave on Sunday or has he refused to go?.

He just sucks the joy out of life; you and for that matter your DD deserve better. Do you want her thinking that this is normal and actually how all men behave?.

Yes I would LTB.

No you cannot 'work through' someone being a selfish, mardy pig.

It's who he is.

You aren't happy so LTB. You only get one life and spending any more time than you have to being unhappy just because your partner says you should is crazy.

No it was last Sunday I told him I wanted him to leave. It took him a day, but eventually after lots of talks, he went to stay at his mums.

He's been back everyday though, to see DD. He has suddenly become the worlds best dad.

He wants me to go to counselling. At first he was contrite and apologetic but now he is saying he will not take the blame and I have to accept my responsibility too and listen to what he has to say.

I just don't think I have done anything that has ever justified his treatment of me and Ive had enough. But I am now finding it difficult to keep saying it is over. He has an answer for everything and he keeps cornering me.

I never comment on relationships threads because I tend to think there are two sides to every story BUT having read what you wrote I need to reply: there is no way I could live like this. He will sap all your energy. You totally need to get legal advice and end the relationship.

So fucking what if you do want to leave based on feelings rather than fact. This isn't a court of law.

You can leave for whatever bloody reason you want. However spurious.

Thanks, I have told him everything on that list and he doesn't see an issue with most of it.

I know he's not exactly abusive, but I just don't think it's how you treat somebody you love.

I know I'm not perfect, I know if we went to counselling a few things would surface that we should both work on, but I didn't make him act like that towards me. It's not about how I'm feeling, it IS fact!

We an you maybe write out everything in your post (and the rest) and give him it to read if he has the answers to all of his actions?

He's going to try and wear you down... then he'll do the nice and nasty thing when you don't comply quick enough.

Keep conversation to a minimum and refuse to discuss things over and over. A walk out of the room if you have to.

You do not have to give a reason for wanting the relationship to end. You can end it just because.

He will use any justification, any example, any reason you give as a point of attack. He will attack any example you give. It doesn't matter. You can unilaterally decide that you do not want to continue. Don't give him points to attack. Tell him because it's Wednesday.

I would never even entertain the idea of having joint counselling with this person because he will simply use these sessions (if he did go in any event) to further emotionally wreak you. Joint counselling sessions would be a complete waste of time. He has already told you that he does not want to take any responsibility. It sounds as well like he hates all women and probably also dislikes his mother intensely.

You've clearly had enough and have given him enough chances to change, such men do not change. I would put you and your DD first as of now, you really do not want her growing up thinking that any of what you have experienced with him to date is at all normal.

He might or might not be abusive, but he seems very selfish. Waking you up at 2am wtf?

He is trying to turn it round onto you. You might not be perfect, but if a flat mate did those things you'd be scanning the back pages of the paper looking for a new flat ASAP.

If you truly want out, and think it is unsalvageable get out. Don't fall into the trap of explaining yourself. If he is so committed to making it work then he should be willing to live separately until you can prove to each other it can work.

yes I have been thinking lately that he does just dislike woman. He's not even just sexist I don't think, he's just anti-woman

The thing is OP is that you are not responsible for any of his behaviour. His behaviour is his responsibility and his only. So you cannot take joint responsibility for the choices he has made.
Is he abusive? I'm not sure. Aspects of his behaviour do have abusive tendencies,yes.
But honestly that is irrelevant. If you've had enough and don't see him changing then yes, leave. Life is too short.

I like the way you've worded that, about his choices.

He talks about choices a lot too...

When I say why I want out, using examples of his behaviour which have made me stop loving him, he says I am just reacting to my version of events.

He says I have chosen to feel that way about the things he has done

He also says love is a choice and for the sake of DD I should choose to work it out.

My mind has been reduced to mush!!

What he is saying is that he is going to continue behaving exactly the same way and you need to put up with it.

On Monday, he was so sorry for everything, would do anything ANYTHING for another chance. Today it's this.

I think you're right, I think he has convinced himself its me with the problem not him

I would leave any bastard who told me my feelings were not reason enough for action. He's telling you that your feelings are unimportant this is enough to ltb.
The rest is not shocking, as the first point had primed me for a selfish twat anyway. Needless to say, my advice is LTB. Never look back.

do not entertain conversations about your relationship, your version is based on your opinion his version is based on his opinion, it's all irrelevant. You don't want to be with him, he's going to paint you as the bad guy. Let him. It's over. End of discussion.

Op, I have been teaching my 12 year old about the concept of personal boundaries. She is grasping the idea well that she has a RIGHT to decide what is acceptable for her. She has a RIGHT to challenge behaviours that do not make her feel good. She has a RIGHT to say that she doesn't like being treated a certain way and to move away from someone who violates her boundaries.
She is a unique human being and must decide whether something is acceptable or not to her and should draw her own boundary lines.
You too have that right, as we all do. When you realise you have that right and exercise it you have a healthy degree f self respect. I would suggest you draw those lines and do not let him cross them. At the moment I think you have no boundaries and he is exploiting this.
He has a total disregard for both your personal boundaries and your emotional needs.
His emotive language is about HIM not you, not your DD.
You should do what is best for you and your dd. Your dd needs an emotional balanced mother who feels in control and respected.

and you say to him " Yes I have chosen to feel that way about things you have done. I have made that choice because it is unacceptable to me that you behave that way ( that is a boundary line and you have shown it to him, you have a right to draw it, it belongs to you and he has no right to try and ignore it or tell you it is badly drawn)

I always think I am strong and emotionally balanced and now I am realising maybe not as much as I thought

How do I draw these lines? I just don't know if it is me having these unreachable standards or if everyone would feel the same. That shouldn't be so important really should it, but that's why I posted.

I'm glad you are teaching that to your 12 year old, I'm going to do exactly the same for my DD

My god. He's like a Dementor.

He says I have chosen to feel that way about the things he has done

And he chose to do them. He is choosing to find his actions acceptable and your reactions unacceptable. Or rather, he's choosing to find his actions acceptable and your feelings and reactions are irrelevant to him.

Love is a choice. He's choosing not to love you. He's choosing to behave exactly how the fuck he wants and you're to fall in line. He has made his choices and it's time for you to make yours.

notty, it is quite understandable that you are doubting your right to draw your own conclusions about what is acceptable. By the sounds of it this man has done his best to tell you that black is white and that your feelings are invalid and misplaced.
I know this because I was with a similar character for 15 years. It has taken me a year after leaving him to realise that I had the right to determine my own values and that I did not need someone else's approval.
I do know how utterly vital it is to get some kind of bloody bearing after years of being eroded by these men. You have no idea of right and wrong anymore. I completely understand that.
So, to answer your question. He is a toss pot. He is manipulative , selfish and unpleasant. He is not interested in you or your needs, he is cunning and self obsessed. He will carry on invalidating your needs and feelings and with eventually destroy you emotionally.
You are not imagining what is happening to you and you are not in the wrong.
You draw your boundary line by telling him "no" and you keep the record stuck.
He will plead, shout, whinge, attack, whine, lie and manipulate. Still the answer is 'no'.
You have made a hug step coming on here and asking what you have. I remember doing the same thing years ago. And i had no idea what the answer would be. I genuinely didn't know if my ex was a wanker or I was all the things he said I was. I needed others to come and tell me.
So here's one woman who is telling you, as have all the others on this thread.

He sounds awful. And his central point is completely irrelevant (who is to "blame" for the situation) - you've made a decision to end it, which you have VERY valid reasons for. That's it. It's a relationship, not some kind of playground game with point scoring. If both people don't want to stay, it dies.

How to draw the lines?

Stop discussing.

Stop engaging.

Take action.

God he sounds a miserable unloveable selfish bastard with no redeeming fearures. It's very telling you say he's lost his friends. Why's that?

If he continues to blame you just say I don't love you anymore. End of.

Good luck. You deserve happiness and fun.

If he continues