I don't how to make a man happy, there is just something missing in me, says DH

[DreamyParentoid]

We are married. Have two beautiful girls, 2 yrs and 9 months. A lovely, if messy, home, and our relationship is tragically empty on the inside. He says he is in a living hell. That he looks back and sees how much happier he has been in other relationships that were filled with life. That I am just totally taken up with the kids and don't have time or energy for anything else. He doesn't get a look in. No cuddles, the kids get it all.

But I do everything, all the housework, kids meals, most of the childcare. H provides really well. He sleeps in a different bed because he doesn't want to be woken up by breastfeeding sounds and to get a good nights sleep.

It is not the first time he has said something like this. But he doesn't want to split up. He has just given up hope of it being any better. It has all just come up for him. But I'm not to worry. It'll be better soon because he will put his feelings back in a box.

Shit, shit, shit.

I have arranged to see a counsellor which has really helped. But I don't know what to do. Part of me wants to try and be all the things he has said he'd like. Then the other part knows that I am those things if he was nicer to me. He wants more physical contact but I find it hard to be nice to him when he is being so difficult. Then I think if I can just get strong and be myself and get through this bit then we can sort it out.

I just needed to say. I've got to take daughter to nursery now and make it look like I haven't been crying.

This all sounds melodramatic, but it does help to say it in this dramatic way!

xx

Sorry can't do links on phone!

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-explaining-reexplaining-disrespect-is-like-saying-im-open-to-negotiating-on-my-boundaries/
There you go, Diagonally - good link!

Dreamy, again, you are putting ALL the effort in: going for counselling, 'setting your boundaries', talking to him in a 'loving' way. He makes you a cup of tea - such a little thing that lots of people do for their partners and it doesn't warrant a mention because it is just one of those little things people do in a loving/mutually respectful relationship. You are grateful enough to mention it on this thread.

I've said it upthread and I've said it on other threads and I'll say it again:

You cannot change him.
Only he can change himself. IF he wants to - and that wanting goes beyond a 'I don't want this relationship to fail'; maybe 'need' is the better word: he can change if the pressure of needing to change is bigger than the status quo.

Really, truly, from the bottom of my heart very best of luck to you.
I think you will arrive at a point were you might be emotionally, physically and psychologically exhausted and you'll stop doing all the running. I hope that you won't be with him anymore should that happen.
Then, maybe, he may consider what he's lost and whether the hard work HE would have to put in to repair what's wrong with HIM is worth doing. He may need to consider whether he would like to ever having a successful, loving, respectful relationship.

I hate reading threads like this because it makes me realise again how I wasted five years of my life trying to 'change' when nothing I did could ever be good enough.

These men all have the same script. Emotionally difficult childhoods - not loved enough or loved in the wrong way. They say and do awful things to you. But it's not their fault, you are cold or distant or too wrapped up with children. But hey, they are just being honest, now it's up to you to 'fix it' but you have also got to provide the blue print for fixing it, as well as implementing all plans.

'Touching' them or sucking their dicks more simply gives them more opportunities for them to point out how their ex used to suck their dick so much more effectively.

When they twig you are serious about leaving or changing they suddenly and dramatically do something nice, but it doesn't last, how can it? They are broken and you can't fix them.

I think you just ignore anyone who says you need to 'work at this'. You can't fill a bucket with a hole in it.

As you have young children you both have a moral duty to be absolutely honest with each other and see if anything can be done but you are absolutely right to talk about boundaries and strict timetables because my view is 99.9% of these men cannot change and will simply relationship hop once partner stops being compliant until they are too old or until they meet someone sufficiently lacking in self esteem that she stays.

He said "can't you just think of it like you have three children?"

What the actual fuck!!

OP

All you are doing is intellectualising your problems and your relationship. I actually feel that this thread isn't helping at all, simply enabling, because it is making you feel as if there is progress when actually there is none.

Listen to what he is saying. He is telling you that he is, and always will be, superior to you. That you exist to serve him and look after him and that your own needs will always come behind his.

You cannot change him.

OP I would say carry on with the counselling, making efforts etc... But do it for YOURSELF, because it helps you to be abetted person, helps you understand you and others better. Not because you need to change FOR him and to make that relationship work.

I would personnaly say, carry on bring assertive. Tell him he needs to change, he needs to make some efforts. You are and then all is now in his camp to make things work.
Refuse to look after another child. Appreciate the cups of tea (because even though it should be animal thing to do and doesn't deserve praises for it, you shouldn't stop being grateful/appreciate it either). But carry on being assertive when he is being a dick. I agree that your dc will see their mum standing up for herself and they nerdy much need that.

I would every careful re the cultural thing and the childhood stuff. Yes it can explain things (eg as a French woman I would have taken my dcs to the table, not waiting for her to come) but it doesn't mean you have to accept them. If they are at odds with your own beliefs that's when discussion and negotiations on how to do things come into place.
Or when you decide you have loads of problems and you decide to do something about it.

See, I don't think that Dreamy arguing with her husband will be seen by the children as her asserting herself; I think all they will see is Mummy and Daddy fighting. Which is not a good thing to witness at a young age.

Wrt to the three kids comment - I am actually speechless. 'WTAF' doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about that comment.

You shouldn't have to shove boulders uphill on a daily basis just to have the bare minimum acceptable from your life partner. You should do nice things for one another and for the family because you're a team. It shouldn't be a monumental struggle just not to be stepped on by the person who should be looking out for your interests as carefully as his own - what a huge, pointless endeavour. It really, really shouldn't be this hard.

I don't know - just a guess but could he be depressed? Normally I hate when women on here post about awful men and others leap in and say 'he could be depressed' but this just sounds so much like some of the things a depressed person would say - that no matter how good their life is they just can;t be happy in it... I don't know, just a thought.

Either way I'm not at all sure the problem is you. He is either nasty or depressed but you shouldn't need to change yourself. If he wants more of your attention then he'll have to be patient, help more with the children and be nice to you so you come to him of your own accord. That's the only way to fix this I think. You can't change him. Sorry.

He may well be depressed. My ex suffered bouts of depression all his life - probably still does as he showed no interest in getting help and seeing it through.

I don't want to sound harsh but my response is - so what? If he depressed it is still HIS obligation to acknowledge this, seek treatment and follow up his recommended treatment.

Yes, you can be supportive, kind and understanding about it etc, etc but if HE will not acknowledge responsibility for HIS problem then you run the risk of your help and kindness tipping into toxic enabling territory and you both lose in the long term.

And fwiw I agree I don't think it will help the children one jot to see 'mummy asserting herself'. They will just see the two people they love most in the world fighting and arguing. Children hate this. The emotional consequences for them of being frequently subjected to parental conflict are life long and profound.

Surely the point is, in any relationship worth a damn you should not have to see it in terms of 'standing up for yourself' - your partner should want you to be the best you can be, he should want to help and support you, not put you down.

Of course all couples bicker, even row from time to time, but if they lack that fundamental bedrock of love, compassion and respect for one another, the relationship is already dead and you are just debating over it's rotting corpse.

Dreamy, you have told him what you need from this relationship, it seems.
He keeps making excuses. Listen to him.
You now need to decide whether to accept to continue your life as it has been, and putting up with his ill treatment of you, or move on.

I've seen some shocking accounts on here and ridiculous excuses for abusive behaviour but not being breast fed takes the biscuit WTAF?

No man should ask his wife to treat him as a third child thats sick! How are you supposed to have a relationship with a man who just wants a mother substitute. He's told you loud and clear now hasn't he?

Please don't waste years trying to change this man. You can't. Really, you cannot change people, they just are what they are. I hope your counsellor helps you to open your eyes op

It was only a short relationship but It was my first significant relationship and he sounds a lot like your H. He had depression but never sought treatment for it and the one time he did he said he 'didn't know what to say as he wasn't feeling depressed with me around'.
It had started off with me admiring he style and skill at out subject then without me noticing it stared to wane when things were becoming more equal. He needed people to pay him attention and he did not want to see me as equal. So his general unhappiness at everything focused on my apparent insensitivity to his needs, obsessive computer gaming and spectacular degree self sabotage. In the meantime I was alternating between giving him space and cheerleeding, complimenting him and generally being a tower of strength. I failed to notice how little I was getting in return for my investment because I thought his butchy comments and sulking was the depression talking.
This went throught a farce of an engagement and the one time I asked him to be my tower of strength (I was working in a godawful factory where no one spoke to me once they realised i was a student) he told me to stop whining. On it went until we lived together after that summer where within two months we split up mostly due to the fact that apparently Inmade him depressed. I think what made him depressed was my expectation that he was my equal ans that whenever he screwed up I'd cal him on it. Thing was I reckon he enjoed depression as he used it to make people around him walk on eggshells and used as a excuse to not get out of bed. He was actual being highly manipulative of my good nature under the guise of being Ill.
He got a shock after we split up as once the mourning period was over I realised I didn't have to care about him and that he was still depressed. It was all him not me.

What I am supposed to be saying if you are still reading is that he will never see you as an equal however capable you are. You will spend your life councelling and cheer leading this man and he will give you crumbs in return. If only I had payed more attention to how my spoiled little prince spoke to his female family members I would have binned him sooner.
It's good you are going to individual councelling as should you wish to leave you. An use this as a basis on how to leave this relationship.

He said "can't you just think of it like you have three children?"

Cringe.

Can you send him to boarding school, or give him up for adoption?

Open mouthed at him blaming his vile behaviour on not being breast fed, wtaf!

You can analyse him all you like, but at the end of the day he will still be a complete nobber.

Damn iPhone! I meant that individual councelling would be a good basis to see what you would have to do in order to leave if you did.

The thing is women are conditioned to be nice and polite and be coucillors while there are some men who will simply be councellor-sucker. He will be a never ending pit of misery but will see it as his right.

I have spent the last few years bringing up a depressed teenager. And if anywhere along the line I have given her the reason to think that I believe that being depressed can be an excuse for treating other people like shit, then I shall have failed as a mother. And if she has taken that from her own life, then she will have failed as a human being.

Cory, I'm so glad you said that. I've had cause to say it to both DH and DS in the past couple of weeks.

I do think I might have failed DS, though.

The thing is, it's all quite exhilarating, when you're caught in this high-octane situation of talking endlessly about your (well, his [sceptical]) feelings and what you can do, and making tiny, tiny, bits of progress (a cup of tea from your partner [sceptical])...but really, this is no way to live. Sooner or later the endless navel-gazing and sub-analysis will become quite wearing.

And really, living with a partner who does his share of stuff around the house and doesn't try to 'improve' you or blame you for the fact he was formula-fed is much nicer. Believe me.

Incidentally if you do want a manchild wouldn't it be more fun to have a hot young mayaan with endless sexual stamina? You do seem to have the worst of both worlds...

If he were a third child he would have been told to come to the fucking table for his dinner, like the rest of them. And would have been sent to bed with no telly if he refused. Being a child isn't just about being nurtured and forgiven for saying insensitive things. It's also about learning how to be an adult, and doing what mummy tells you. Bet he wouldn't like that bit.

Posters are being awfully sceptical about the apparent progress, but that's because most of us have been with and/or witnessed partners who appeared to "get it" when confronted, but then either reverted back to their old ways or shifted to a new mind game. A positive talk and a few cups of tea are a good start - but that's all they are. Two very small steps in the right direction, which if not sustained will never get you any further.

The thing is, identifying why one reacts to things in a certain way is only the first stage. It is useful in order to try to retrain oneself. It does not absolve one of any responsibility for ever and ever. We are all a great deal more than just the products of our childhood. We, like, learn stuff, and think, and listen to others. We treat the people we care about in the way we observe they like to be treated. Or, you know, if we are dyed-in-the-wool selfish arses who think we can get away with it, we don't.

Good luck, but keep your eyes peeled and your powder dry.

Coming into this late, so not read far in, but got to agree with Koala
All I can say is your husband sounds like a nasty piece of work and I'm sad for you that you're getting blamed for clearly being too busy and exhausted to be the man pleaser he wants you to be. ... Except mine wd have a lot more expletives, prob not deleted.