To start ignoring my mother and go entirely no contact?

[singlemedicmum]

Sorry to post another mother related thread, but just wanted to get some perspective. This is my second post here, I've been reading threads for a few weeks and am pretty happy to note that most posters have a similar moral compass to myself (and don't take any shit either).

Massively long story and as I'm a pretty private person I'll try hard to omit possible identifiers.

Essentially I've a tiny family. Dear father no longer alive (the one family member who loved me unconditionally sadly), and two siblings (I'm the middle one ha!) and a mother who's pretty passive aggressive. Was used as a housemaid and babysitter for the younger sibling from the age of about 10 so my mum could spend evenings and weekends focussing on taking the elder sibling to sports events.

From age 11 I spent my teens living mainly with my father but got into an unsettling cycle of moving back and forth from each parent. Mother tried hard to restrict my teenage freedom (I chose people who were part of a religion and race she hated and still hates) but was more than happy to facilitate my elder siblings socialising.

I've had years of being close with the 3 of them, but this has regularly been interspersed with periods of being treated like shit. I've been used to perform tasks that only I can do properly (I'm miles more academic than the other two, and have nous) and I've also received tonnes of help with childcare so she's not all bad. I'm divorced with 2 children and a single parent for several years now.

Stupidly I entered an abusive relationship a couple of years ago. I managed to get rid of the wanker a year ago. Whilst initially liking this dick, my mother became very aloof and kept her distance once the relationship became established. To my eternal shame and guilt there was also some pretty psychologically horrendous DV and this was directed towards the kids too. I struggled alone with this (totally persuaded that it was acceptable and still can't get my head round why I tolerated it) and eventually confided in a close friend and ended the relationship (contacting police etc as he was stalking us towards the end)

Since that relationship started my family completely stepped back and without detailing the ins and outs I was ignored by my elder sibling, the youngest showed their true colours by sending verbal abuse via text and mother to this day has never phoned and has just sent text messages asking to see my children.

I've repeatedly explained that they can't ignore my existence yet still text (fucking text messages and not even a damn phone call) requesting to see my children. She won't come over to talk even when I've explained we can forget about everything and start afresh, that I need a mother and that I'm happy to make amends and be a family again. I'm still getting stupid shitty texts eg 'can the children come over as I'm at home today' or 'would the children like to come to a bonfire' etc etc. No hello or how are you, and definitely no response to my requests to make amends and start afresh.

Am I being unreasonable to tell my so called mother to fuck the fuck off and leave me alone and stop sending rude and pathetic text messages? Or would it be sensible to just ignore these fucking irritating texts?

Sorry to write such a tedious post. There's lots more to this. I've tried my best. I'm alone and coping well with the children but since disengaging with this bollocks and realising that I don't have a proper family I've become so much more chilled out and at peace. I'm not happy for anyone, especially my negative and passive aggressive family to expect to have access to my babies whilst ignoring me.

Perspective would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

You can't just wade in and expect your odd views to go unchallenged, Judy.

I suggest you have also misread a good few posts, if your response to one of mine is anything to go by.

what good will come of these children seeing their grandmother? You say you have a different view, that's fine, but what is your view of the children seeing their grandmother? & what is it based on?
I would like to see your answer to these really good questions from Pumpkinsweetie.

You have stated that some good will come from them knowing their extended family, but what exactly do you have in mind as the benefit in the long and short term? What is it in all the details Singlemedic has posted that makes you think these children could benefit from a relationship with this woman?

"what good will come of these children seeing their grandmother? You say you have a different view, that's fine, but what is your view of the children seeing their grandmother? & what is it based on?
I would like to see your answer to these really good questions from Pumpkinsweetie."

" I've also received tonnes of help with childcare so she's not all bad."

If the woman is not responding to appeals to make amends then how does continued contact make sense?

A relationship involves compromise and this woman has made it clear there will only be a relationship when OP surrenders unconditionally and hands over the children into the bargain.

Advocating continued exposure to this woman represents condoning of abuse of them.

The offers of childcare are made in order to get her claws into them. As OP reported, once she got them alone in the park she grilled them on their experience with her previous partner.

What makes you think there would be anything but more where that came from once she started dishing out 'childcare'? Questions about the sort of mother Singlemedic was, insinuations and comparisons, digs at her, etc. -- are you so naive that you discount this possibility? The woman has already breached the boundaries in a serious manner when she took them to the park. Combining a nice outing to the park with questions that are inappropriate is the hallmark of a boundary breaker. She gives with one hand and hurts with the other. There is nothing as confusing or as damaging to children.

Judy I apologise if you feel upset by my responses to you. But your posts have baffled me (and some of your insinuations also have the ability to upset me).

You've made lengthy posts. But briefly as I understand it your reasons for me allowing access have changed over time which quite frankly means you've very little credibility now.

Firstly it was so my kids could have a loving and stable family life with their grandma.
Then when challenged you changed this to 'the children will have an opportunity to see their grandma and her damaging influence' (paraphrasing obviously as cant remember exact words)
Now your reason why I should allow access is so I can benefit from some of that childcare I used to benefit from.

Words fail me. I could go on about other comments (and insinuations) you've made towards me, but I won't. I'm sorry if you feel bullied but perhaps you ought to think about the way you may make others feel before making your posts.

Thanks to the rest of you.

Judy I was the one that mentioned Jeremy Kyle, because you seem so hell bent on disbelieving the OP, and want to know the whole story. She has described her relationship with her family, but you seem to refuse to accept that and are cherry picking the bits out of her posts that will support your view that she is in the wrong.

The text messages are not about you, they are about your children. You are being passive aggressive by ignoring them.

Really? I would have thought they were being passive aggressive by completely ignoring all of the OP's requests to talk about it nicely, to deal with it, to put it behind them, and just sending a text about the children.

ironically not letting them get to know that Grandmother could be the worst thing for OP,
they never really get to see what a strange, difficult, damaged person grandma can be,
they never get to hear how bad she talks about their mother and realize how wrong she is,
they never got to decide for themselves,
they were just told,
its not hard to see how fascinating it could be to inquiring minds,
that family that all they ever heard about was they were so awful we had to run away, cut off all contact.

Or.... they get brainwashed by their GM from an early age into believing that their mother has problems, is damaged, and they could have their relationship with their own mother destroyed by someone who refuses to believe any good in her daughter/their mother. I rather think that would be a far more likely scenario.

This whole issue is actually about the low self esteem of the OP , it won't change until OP realizes her mothers opinion of her has no power to define her, and is just the opinion of a woman with very low self esteem.

But WHY has the op got low self esteem? Because of THEIR treatment of her. Up until now the family has had a great power to define her, and that same power could be held over her children. Why shouldn't she protect her children from this risk?

They are missing out on finding their own answers to that very problem,

They have all the time in the world, when they are older and less easily damaged by them.

and you are missing out on the chance to show your family who you really are.
She's done that, they don't want to see who she is. They don't like that she's successful, able to stand on her own two feet etc, they much prefer their own distorted view. They quite like her as the scapegoat, it hasn't changed up until now, why should it change now?

Surely there has to be better grounds for cutting children off from contact with family and it might be the legacy of the relationship OP had that involved DV.

Or more likely, the OP made such a bad choice because she has had no self worth because it was stripped from her by this wider family. The op sounds as though she has suffered some form of DV from an early age, it was emotional rather than physical, that's the only difference.

One thing I will say positively Judy, your posts and the responses of others have enabled me to receive even better advice and more insight! Thanks to all of you so much

Mathsanxiety -"Advocating continued exposure to this woman represents condoning of abuse of them."

Please stop bullying me with statements that are inflammatory and based on a totally untrue misrepresentation.

Now you see DIYAprentice, thats a reasonable post, no personal insults, no attacks on my motivations, no attacks on my character, just an alternate interpretation.
A perspective.
If only you could do one explaining why to the other posters who have made such deeply hurtful insinuations about my character why that is bullying and wrong.
I don't seem able to get it over to them.

Singlemedicmum, I wish you all the best what ever you decide to do.

op, ignore judy, there are so many excellent posts on this thread its probably just the law of averages you'd get an idiot coming along sooner or later.

am thinking of you and getting a lot of advice myself from your thread, so thanks

"Judy I apologise if you feel upset by my responses to you. But your posts have baffled me (and some of your insinuations also have the ability to upset me)"

I have not made any hurtful insinuations about you singlemedic,
if you feel I have at least point them out to me so I can explain.

I conur with your excellent suggestion ssd.

You might want to consider moving this over the relationships topic single, where you generally get more considered and thoughtful responses. Just a suggestion tho :)

Okay you the bullies win,I am so very deeply hurt by the out right nastiness towards me personally for doing nothing more than participating in this discussion.
Had any of you doing this stopped to consider what was actually being written ? rather than assumed?
Had any of you stopped to think that even if you disagreed with my posts that was not permission to attack my character personally, to label me
as the worst kind of individual? and ten sit back and enjoy watching others continue putting me down personally?
Even if someone thinks I am an idiot that is no reason at all to join in or condone the behavior of others who are attacking me personally.
Some of you have sailed very close to libel.
(a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.)
and so far I've not seen or read a single post saying -Hold up, you might not agree with Judy but thats no reason to make such comments about her intentions.

how you treat people who you do not agree with is very telling about your own character and values in life.

I'm done and regardless I wish you all well.

Judy, you can't shout bullying just because people vehemently disagree with you.

You haven't exactly been that pleasant yourself, especially about the OP.

Maybe you should have left the thread a few pages back when you said you were going to?

'Advocating continued exposure to this woman represents condoning of abuse of them'

I agree with this, before math said it I was going to suggest judy was encouraging the children to be exposed to an environment when the OPs said what it's done to her, but I didn't have time to post, and like the other posters I'm certainly not a bully.

I know what you mean about ignoring it ssd, but I don't like the idea that posters banging on and on at an OP with advice that is borderline dangerous aren't challenged.

There are so many people who are taken in by the illusion that close family members can act in appalling ways and that they should put up/shut up, and it's just.not.true.

I can and I have protected my DC from close family, the idea that someone could have advised me to let them make up their own minds, and the damage that would have caused, makes me spit feathers just thinking about it.

The OP's said you're on completely the wrong lines judy, there's no need at all to keep trying to persuade her that you're right. I would ask why it's so important to you but I don't want to ask you anything that needs answering.

My last post wasn't an attack of you judy, it's an attack on the views in your post.

I actually want to go back through the entire thread and pick further holes in Judy's arguments, just for completeness.

But I think it's futile (and the more eloquent members have done a much finer job than I could), and tbh I don't really wish to waste my time (Judy seems to pick only certain parts from my responses to respond to anyway).

Besides Judy, this post was supposed to be about me and my children, not you. Could you start a new thread if you wish to discuss bullying on threads please?

Back to the OP's original question...

OP, it seems to me that your mum is thoroughly enjoying the drama of this situation. She wants to see your children so she can make a point of ignoring you! I would cease contact with her. You've tried to be reasonable, but she doesn't want to be reasonable. She wants to hurt you. I don't think she's going to change.

OP, I hope you have found the posts helpful, even if they have been slightly derailed. But, as you say, you have found the posts arguing with her enlightening anyway, silver cloud and all that....

It seems the overwhelming majority of posters are very supportive of your actions, including me. Please don't be sucked into thinking that your children can have a relationship with that wider family without being damaged. Look at your siblings, they are just as damaged, albeit in a different way.

I'm really touched and very grateful that anonymous women have taken their time to help me get my head a little clearer. Whilst its my decision entirely, I've felt closer to clarity with every post - even the contradictory devils advocate ones.

I'm a bit saddened by the fact my thread upset some people, but I hope I've conducted myself appropriately.

I'm finding MN very useful, and I hope to use it more in the future.

I find it really worrying the amount of people I come across just on MN who are relating what really badly behaved people are doing to them, but who are constantly putting themselves in their path just because they're their mothers.

Really disturbing and destructive behaviour at the extreme end on the scale of manipulation.

But it can be so confusing because although when you say what's happened it sounds awful, you also know the other side of this person can be caring and make you feel secure, and it's difficult to brush off that side of someone who took care of you when you were little and that you maybe have a lot of good memories of.

You're well on your way to resolving this for you/your DC medic, just realising you don't have to play the game is half way there. Realising you'll never be able to resolve whatever's going on in your mums head is another part of it. If she's never going to be happy regardless, then why let her drag you down with her?

This isn't being disloyal to her or abandoning her in her hour of need, this is making a life changing decision based on what's best for your beautiful children, and having a happy mum is best for them.

(sorry, badly written, it's late)

X-posts, you've conducted yourself a lot more appropriately than I would have, given what's been said

Hello again ladies and gentlemen. Thought I'd update for those of you who're interested.

Well, had a couple of texts Nov-Dec asking for opportunities to see the children at school events. These were very blunt and didn't even say hello to me or ask me how I was so I ignored them.

Then I received a text shortly before Christmas saying that if I didn't want any more contact, then I should say so. So clearly my ignoring of texts eventually had an impact!

I took a deep breath and replied in a similar vein to my previous texts ie I was happy to engage and build on a relationship, and that she was welcome to visit the DC at my place, but that things would take a long time to resolve and we needed to talk properly etc.

This happened. Mother visited. I was included in conversation. The DC were buzzing with the novelty of grandma visiting. We all received some gifts which was thoughtful and unexpected. It was nice to see her. She even stayed to eat which is always a nice thing.

I then visited her house with the DC a few days later, after ensuring she was home alone. This was fine too. Conversation was minimal and superficial but tbh I didn't want anything beyond that anyway. The DC were unremarkably comfortable with the two visits, weren't overly ecstatic, and weren't full of questions later for me neither. There was one comment made to the DC about the abuser whilst I was out of the room (random, unnecessary and quite pathetic really - is this done to show a big 'fuck you' to me?!)

So..there is the update. Beyond the above, there's been some superficial texts and a couple of phone calls. Mother did get a bit deep at the end of one call, and began whining about all the issues, but I was quite cleverly dismissive-without-being-obvious-cos-didn't-want-an-argument. it's just a bit of a headfuck tbh, and I don't wish to even open that can of worms anytime soon. Haven't got the headspace.

So I'm thinking of maintaining this very basic line of communication, on such a superficial level, for the time being. It makes things much simpler for me. I did promise to go over when free to discuss the issues, but tbh I just don't want to, and don't know if I ever will which is weird for me. I just feel so chilled and calm about things. Not planning on asking for childcare, or taking it if its offered, and not planning on sending the DCs unsupervised, and not planning on visiting unless mother is home alone.

Whaddya think?

I really can't see that she'll change to be honest. It's been too many years for her to suddenly start changing her behaviour.