Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Charlotte can you tell him it's not up for discussion? How would you feel about being that firm with him?

I don't know. My situation was reversed in that it was him insisting on turning up on my doorstep for contact, so I had no choice but to get the legal heavies in.

However, if you mean that FW is taking his time even consulting a solicitor, to agree to mediation, then I think your solicitor can't just let it sit, if there are arguments about what is in DD3's best interests. That said, if he lets you collect her at 6pm, there is no issue and it is probably cheaper to wait until he does something.

If he doesn't let you collect her, and you believe that overnight contact is distressing to DD3, then you haven't really got a choice but to seek further legal representation to bring him to the negotiating table. Are you on legal aid or funding this yourself?

The 'I don't know' was to the point about getting the legal heavies in, not to pony's comments

quietcoach

Charlotte I agree with quietcoach. Might even be worth a quick discussion about this situation with your solicitor, to reassure yourself that you are on solid ground (you are!) but then so you can say to him that you have consulted your solicitor about it - if he is refusing to let you take her at 6pm, that might sway him.

I went to mediation as part of the financial settlement process (contact irrelevant as DCs grown). I had already started down the legal process as FW refused to provide info in a timely fashion, divorce was already absolute as no pensions to fight over. Sol said we should go to mediation as the courts would expect (and like) that.

We were both still living under same roof. Each of us received invitation to make individual first appointment with mediator, the letters arrived on the same day. I booked an appointment (£100) and went. As FW had not even replied to his invite (and hey he wouldn't have spent £100!) the mediator signed the case straight back to my solicitor. So in my case there was a sort of time limit beyond which the mediator could say FW was refusing to engage. IIRC it was 3 weeks.

No idea how this translates to your situation, but thought it might help?

If he's being an arse Charlotte and simply not listening to concerns that DD is unhappy, I don't think you have another choice but to get legal 'heavies' involved. I agree with quiet, see if he lets you collect her at 6pm and take it from there?

But I don't have any experience in this area so feel free to ignore me. Hope you're ok.

Charlotte I hope you're settling in well to your own space

I regret that I sometimes pushed my DC forward for contact when they clearly didn't want to go. I thought it was for the best, but it made the message even more confusing for them [grim face]. Everywhere I turn I'm told to only follow the dc directive, and now I wish I had earlier. He will probably think you are encouraging this lack of contact, but you don't have to explain if thats the course you take [and so the bullying continues....!] just awful .. take care xxx

DD3 and I baked a cake after lunch, and we wrapped up two pieces of it, one for Daddy and one for DS. FW was a bit late; we phoned and found out he was nearly here, so went outside to look at the fish in next door's garden. She was quite calm about going.

He's just taken her now, but first he came in to use the loo (grr, caught off guard and hate appearing unreasonable so let him in), then DS wanted to find something... by the time I hurried them out, DD3 didn't want to go any more and was crying as he carried her down the road. :(

Given all that (which we will manage better next time as I will have thought about it in advance!), I am very very glad that I am picking her up at 6 o'clock tonight and he has agreed to that!

I do feel sorry for my LO, though, and all that she has to go through. I know it's not my fault and it's not my choosing, but it's still not fair, is it?

No, it's not fair Charlotte. Not on you, either.

But that is why when they are young, the general advice is about easing things in gently, to get them used to the changes. FW may have grudgingly agreed to you picking DD3 up early, but he doesn't really accept that he needs to think of the DCs in all this still, does he. And that's where your battle lies. Maybe use this as a way to change the existing contact schedule, for something you think will suit the kids better if it doesn't at the moment.

charlotte hopefully when he realises that this is about what she wants and not about what you want, then he will be reasonable [pigs flying past] but you never know.

my FWx is being a twat about contact again. nc this weekend. then an email moaning about his poverty going on about how much I spend yada yada and how cannot afford to see them unless I help out. I did reply. possibly should not have. saying basically - they don't want your money, they want your love {pardon the transvision vamp reference} or even just the odd phone call or to know when they will see you again. I suggested mediation to sort it all out [pigs flying again]. he is still taking the if I want him to see his own the dcs then I have to give him money/food/things for them to do. I said I would consider helping him out when he considered helping me out with nights off, and childcare in the holidays. e.g. today I am at home because I have no childminder. chances of him helping out. buckleys. If I asked I would get 'I am not your free baby sitter'

just a thought charlotte, although I agree with above that DD3 needs eased into this contact and it should be phased, have you tried to get to the bottom of what is worrying her about overnight? it may be that she is worried if she is away from you too long that when she gets back you won't be there any more (because you have recently moved) or it could be something else but it is worth asking her anyway (even if you are going to avoid overnights for the time being) just to find out what is worrying her and reassure her.

I know my two thought if they shouted too much I might throw them out as well so I reassure them often that they are stuck with me. and once they decided when I left them at a class for an hour that I might die while I was away (recent bereavement). I told them I was too busy to die and certainly did not have time to fit it in in the hour while they were at class

Great reply! :o

It's that she misses me. She says she'll like staying overnight this weekend (there's a party and she probably will), but I think three nights at his house is too long for her. He's not a small children sort of person - he wants to be admired, not to be attending to someone else's needs. She's an inconvenience when she's not making him look good by being adorable. She senses all this which is why she's recently started saying, "I don't like Daddy" again.

That's my take on it all, anyway!

I think we'll try Friday afternoon to Saturday evening this weekend. Or at least I'll try to suggest that. But I don't think he'll be at all amenable to that as he doesn't really want her around on Saturday day time because she's in the way of his plans. He's already tried to pass her back to me for the day (before issues about tonight came up) but I channelled the thread and simply said, "I'm sorry; I have plans." (And repeated when his answer to that was, "But can you take her?")

DD3 has returned in a very good mood. She seems to have enjoyed her time and be really happy to be back here so soon. FW's computer nowhere to be seen when I turned up and his full attention on her (reading books together) - never seen him like this before! - I'm hoping he really is trying to be the best dad he can.

She maybe felt more relaxed because she knew she was not staying too long. And knowing that you had listened to her and taken her seriously would have helped. Fingers crossed for FW - he's missing out on so much joy if he doesn't interact with them.

I think you're right, pony. Although 'joy' - not sure he can feel that. Guilt, shame, yes, but joy? Not seen it!

How are your boys, btw?

Hello all. Have been reading but my mind always feels too chaotic to be able to write much.

Charlotte - glad the contact this evening went well, and that your DD didn't end up staying over.

My situation just feels like the biggest rollercoaster ride ever invented. I'm sure it's not though, and just mirrors other unfortunates who married or were with similar FWs. Mine cancelled his planned w/e with the DC on Thursday, rejecting what I was proposing over some unknown technicality (2 nights, more than normal, with me sharing the travel...) and then just went quiet. I then broke down on Friday morning as I told them they wouldn't be seeing him after all; they were gutted. Then 5 mins before their Saturday activity started locally, he texted to say he was on his way there to "see them briefly and talk to you". Totally ambushed me, DC over-excited, I then felt like I had to include him in our plans otherwise he would bugger off and not see them and they would be confused and upset.

He's nice one minute but if I EVER reject anything nice he does or says, wow - the transformation is instant, and grim.

11 months into the separation/divorce, and I cannot believe I'm still so in the thick of it. The latest this evening was yet another stream of emails blaming me for just about everything that's bad in his life because I dared to go to the CSA. He tells me regularly he'll probably lose his job over it etc etc.

I wish I could relax a bit more on the thread, he's stalked me on MN before so despite several name changes I never know whether I'm safe posting :(

Off to read a bit more of the thread and some links methinks. Anyone else here have their FW tell them constantly that THEY'RE the abusive one? Mine started to admit he thinks he has a personality disorder at the weekend, but then went on to say that actually looking at the indicators he realised that I had all of the indicators whereas he only had some. He is constantly trying to make out that I am the one with the MH issues, whereas he has a lifetime history of depression and MH problems. It's actually really messed with my head over the years because I just can't get his voice out of my head trying to make me think it's all me. I know I have some issues, don't we all - and my biggest one coming out of this is to 'own' the fact that I allowed to get myself into this mess and try to make sure I never end up with someone similar again.

^Anyone else here have their FW tell them constantly that THEY'RE the abusive one? Mine started to admit he thinks he has a personality disorder at the weekend, but then went on to say that actually looking at the indicators he realised that I had all of the indicators whereas he only had some^

all the time.... it's in the script!!

the hardest battle after getting the FW out of the home is getting the FW out of the head....it's a long process, hard work and rather depressing...

keep reading and if you post about him be reassured he won;t be able to tell who you are because they are all so blinking similar, as are all our issues!! (and for confidentiality swap the sexes of your DC or add an extra one to muddy the waters!!)

Lol, fool, it's so true.

Yy it takes a long time to evicted them from your head nd even longer to pick out all the little guilt triggers they leave behind. i am becoming more aware of all the conditioning so i now recognise it (step one ) but cannot always ignore it.

floating all the time, I really had begun to believe it to. Even now when he says I'm the controlling one it makes me think.

Thursday he barged his way in with food he cooked for me, I didn't ask for this food am sure it's because the dc stay at my nans on a Thursday and he wanted to see what I'm doing who I'm with.

He slapped me because I said I don't like stew peas, I said omg you've just slapped me and he said your fucking mad I never slapped you, I shouted at him you have just slapped me I can still feel it you prick and he said ring the police Muff slap yourself again make sure there is a proper mark. I sai please just fuck off and get out my house and he said oh I will before you slap me again and twisting back to me.

Unbelievable Muffcakes.

One time shortly after we separated, mine asked to meet up because he wanted to talk to me. I foolishly fell for it, and met him in a local cafe for lunch. It was awful. Near the end, after asking for the bill, he told me that he had two things to tell me - one that he was in a new relationship and two that there was a lot less equity in the house than I thought and that he couldn't tell me why but there was something very secret going on in the background that if we divorced would come out and leave us with almost nothing (we have quite a lot of equity; or so I think/thought). I was obviously shocked and very upset; I waited for him outside the cafe but he stormed out after paying the bill and just walked off. At one point I touched him on the arm to try to get him to listen to me, in floods of tears and very scared about what this 'thing' was. He just turned and walked off. I thought nothing more of it... until at midnight the police knocked on my door saying that he had accused me of assault and wanted to take me to the station to spend the night in the cells before being interviewed in the morning. Luckily they saw the situation for what it was, and didn't follow through with it - think they were horrified to be involved in such nonsense.

One outcome of this separation I never could have anticipated is that now, whenever police knock at the door (it happened a couple of weeks ago with them asking if anyone had seen anything regarding a car break in across the road), I now think they're coming for ME. :(

The more I talk about it to people the less I believe it, it sounds like I'm making it up and sometimes I question myself if I have dreamt this up. Then he does something even more unbelievable.

floating was there nothing the police could do to stop his false allegations? Is that not illegal and wasting police time? CCTV in cafe could prove he's lying. That is awful what he done, I mean my FW is a cunt but wow ringing the police knowing they could caution you and you would always have that on your record... I think you should keep cctv on you to be able to disprove any allegation!

Tonight I have been informed I am mentally ill. That is the only POSSIBLE reason as to why I would even CONSIDER leaving. Classic FW? Surely?

Muffcakes (can't bring myself to call you Muff ) - it was all fine in the end, annoyingly the CCTV didn't show coverage of anything so I couldn't prove I hadn't done it, but to be honest after talking to me they dropped it; I got the impression they're well used to such game-playing. The sad thing is that he still believes he did the right thing. In the 5 months after we separated that we had to endure living under the same roof he called the police several times, I only had to raise my voice and he was dialling the number. It was horrendous - especially as he combined it with cutting off my access to all money, taunting me with "we're going to lose everything unless you do as I say" and carrying on another relationship quite openly.

I should count myself lucky we're not in that situation any more. But since he moved out we have had six months of fighting over every.single.thing - but mainly contact. I've put on two stone since January, none of my clothes fit me, and I feel like I'm on such a rollercoaster - I just about get my equilibrium back when we have another 'episode' and I collapse in a heap again.