MIL - please help me get some perspective.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

Right - this will be long but dint want to drip feed

I get on relatively well with MIL and FIL. MIL is quite selfish and FiL is very passive so facilitates that. They don't have many friends so family is, ostensibly, everything to them. However, it looks to me as though its more about show in that they won't ever rush to help us out practically but it's very important that we turn up for family events so that MIL can a have 50,000 photos to put on facebook. MILs needs always come first and I find her attitude quite bizarre - an example being that once FIL popped into see us and said that he wouldn't tell MIL as she would be cross. What? Rather than pleased he had seen us?

MIL was very controlling when DH was growing up. She has tried to interfere a bit with us but DH has, to be fair, been good at putting his foot down re this.

MIL has a complicated family background where her father died when she was young and her mother remarried. She had another child who is clearly the favourite - albeit he lives in London and MIL provides much more practical support. FIL's parents are pretty much sidelined and not offered any assistance

Now, to get to the point. It was MIL's brother's favourite child birthday recently and it was decided that we would all go to a hotel to celebrate. We have one DC aged 10 months and I am 7 month's pregnant.

one thing that pisses me off massively is that there is no communication regarding these events. So we have often been left hanging about/wondering whether to have lunch etc. DH is good now at just ensuring we do our own thing and eat etc. So we arrive, check in, have lunch etc. PIL's don't arrive til 4 so don't see DS as he's gone for a sleep. Obviously, if they had wanted to see him, they coukd have arrived earlier.

We go for the meal in the hotel which is very expensive and terrible. dH's and my main courses were £35 each and are taken off the bill as they are inedible. Favoured son, his wife and their 4 children all have meals that are fine. Favoured son orders lots of expensive wine. To be fair, DH has a few glasses. I have quarter of a glass and then two lemonades.

MIL is at her bossy worst but I manage to politely ignore here. This morning we come down for breakfast. There are two seats left beside a high chair that is obviously for DS. DH and I go to the seats to have MIL start chuntering something about DS's sister and her boyfriend needing to sit there. I tell her not to worry, we can get seats for them but we need to sit beside DS as there is no other room at the table in the fucking special room organised for breakfast

MIL then starts organising fir the waitress to take group photos RIGHT NOW and pointedly telling me to sit down now as I'm trying to get DS into the high chair. As we are quite flustered, we don't do the high chair strap properly our fault, I know and DS slips nearly out of the high chair and gets caught under the tray cringe. He is crying and I'm trying to get him out and sort things out and comfort him when MIL comes and starts pestering me about holding him and taking him for a walk as they've not seen him yet er, turn up earlier yesterday?. I say OK as he's just stopped crying. MIL then takes him off to have 5,000 photos taken. She's so busy doing this that she doesn't bother moving anything from her place and, as a result, DS pulls a cup of coffee over himself. Thankfully it was luke warm but my nerves are totally jangled by this point. She ignores all of this and FIL keeps snapping whilst DS grabs a knife. By this stage I actually feel like bursting into tears but I don't want to cause a scene.

I then stand up to take him back and MIL very pointedly refuses to hand him over to anyone but DH so he can hold him for the "next photograph". So we all trot off to have another family photo with MIL making sure that DH and his sister and she and DS are front and centre. I'm shoved at the back like a gestational carrier.

I'm fuming at MIL's complete lack of insight into danger and the fact that she must have known I was worried about DS but has refused to hand him over. Accidents happen. I know that and I am definitely not paranoid or over protective. I was happy for the favourite son's wife to take DS into another room fr about half an hour whilst we finished our lunch and think its good for him to go to everyone and have a little cuddle. But I do expect people to show a bit if common sense and put his safety above their need to take to photos. If an accident happens, I expect them to acknowledge it and that I might be a bit a bit worried about him - reasonably.

The PILs want us to go back to their house - about 10 miles away but I point blank refuse to DH and insist we go home. DH packs the car and I go to check out. The restaurant bill is huge. Query this and find out that MIL has called reception and said we will divide bill per room. Favourite son and his wife and 4 children are staying in 2 rooms so have paid far less per person and enjoyed the discount of our main meals being take off the bill. Favourite son is a millionaire, BTW. But MIL, the big cheese, has decided without asking us that we will subsidise them. As well as paying £350 no, that's not a typo for our room.

I am now very cross but pay up to save embarrassment. We are certainly not poverty struck but I have given up my job to be a stay at home mum and DH is about to buy a dental practice so money is pretty tight as we're having to pay a deposit etc.

I get DS into the car. By this stage, I do not want to see MIL. FIL then appears and starts chuntering in about MIL's 60th birthday next year - which is approximately 3 weeks after our baby is due. Apparently they would like us to trek 60 miles away, go out for a meal and stay the night. FIL helpfully suggests that I could stay in the hotel room with 13 month old DS and a 3 week old if I didn't feel up to the meal.

I then get into the car. I know I was rude here as I didn't say bye to everyone and I know that was rude.

DH appears and we zoom off. I tell DH understatement of the century that I am rather pissed off with MIL and do bit want her to look after DS on his own as she seems to have no regard for his safety and no insight into how to avoid accidents. She and FIL are meant to be looking after him fir the day in 3 weeks.

DH thinks this is harsh, blah, blah blah. He's never been scalded bybMIL. More by luck than design, I think. He agrees that the coffee thing was dangerous though and he did say to her to be careful at the time.

I don't know if I am over reacting here. Also, I don't know whether I should actually, once calmer, speak to her about all of this. I am massively pissed off. Maybe I didn't handle things well though. I don't know.

Sorry this is so long but can I have some advice!

Read your op and I agree with atilla. Your mil is a narc.
Very difficult to manage.
Good luck

Reading through, the facts themselves don't sound too bad.

Your millionaire BIL paid twice as much for the meal as you (so his children paid 1/2 adult price). You didn't put your baby safely in his high chair so he fell out, she let him spill cold coffee. She wanted some family photos, you are cross that you are in the back row. You have been invited to a family event in a hotel 3 weeks after your due date, you are just cross. I think you are being unreasonable and think its a bit crap to ignore the text. If you were huffing and eye rolling enough for them to notice, then take the opportunity to tell them what you are pissed off about (cost of meal, your son's safety, not being centre stage in photos, being worried about forthcoming event). Or if you decide it's impossible to explain clearly without sounding petty, have a think why that might be.

Hmmm - it is hard. I've thought about this a lot last night and I think the main thing I want to do is support DH and for us to have a totally united front - as suggested above

DH is actually off sick today and I don't want to bother him with MIL's text as he feels so rotten.

I've spoken to my mum who is very of the opinion that we should all work as hard as we can to have as good a relationship with the PIL's as possible fir the sake if DS although she does accept that his safety has to come first. And any decisions not to currently let them look after DS need to be made by both of us - partly as that's fair but also to make it clear to MIL that this is not just me and I'm not the scapegoat. Mum did point out that my paternal grandmother did do some quite odd things - such as throwing my sister's comfort blanket kin the bin . But my mum tried to steer a middle ground with her and we did have a very good relationship with her.

MIL's text is obviously still hanging unanswered I'm pissed off that she has texted me and not DH - obviously I'm the problem. But I'm trying to let that go over my head Still not sure what to do about it. I'm wondering about texting back saying Hi MIL, as you know, DS wasn't very well and it was time for his sleep so we had to head off. As you saw at breakfast with the coffee and grabbing the knife, he is into everything at the moment and it was all a bit overwhelming and unsafe for him so best to get him home. We were also concerned about the weather. My back is also very painful at the moment and I'm on co-codamol true so it was really quite an effort for us to make this weekend. However, [MIL's step-brother] was very grateful we came, which is all that matters, and we're glad we were able to. In future, to ensure you see more of DS if you would like, we could all make an effort to communicate better as obviously we were there for lunch on the Saturday and that would have been a perfect opportunity for you to spend some time with him but we weren't very sure what the plans were etc. X

Once DH has recovered, he can speak to her re the bill etc. Although, I take attila's point that she is hardly likely to be reasonable about that so I think the best thing is to be canny about things like that though and just ensure that we are not put in the position of paying like that again - by that, I mean that I should have held up the queue, itemised the bill and just paid our share.

As we only had the equivalent of two starters, two lemonades and a few glasses of wine, our share was a lot cheaper than MIL's step-brother's family's bill which was 6 adult mains and starters plus drinks fir 4 children and wine for the adults etc.

"I've spoken to my mum who is very of the opinion that we should all work as hard as we can to have as good a relationship with the PIL's as possible fir the sake if DS although she does accept that his safety has to come first"

I can certainly see where your Mother is coming from here but the problem is that MIL and FIL are very much unreasonable and difficult in the first place and will always put their own needs above that of anyone else's. You are not dealing with normal reasonable people here but instead with people who do not and never will play by the "normal" rules governing familial relations. Also relationships are two way; it is no point putting in the effort if it is not in any way reciprocated. All MIL cares about really is MIL: her behaviours are all typically narcissistic. You have to date received no apology of any sort from either MIL or FIL and you will not receive one. These people do not think they have done anything wrong in the first place and will not take any responsibility for their actions.

I would also argue that if they are too difficult for you to deal with, then they are certainly too difficult for your both vulnerable and defenceless child.

Your mother is certainly right in that your DSs safety needs to come first.

I can understand that you didn't enjoy the occasion but that is the way of these things sometimes, I am sure that having a terrible meal didn't help, but it doesn't make your MIL a monster & it is certainly not worth falling out over. Family get togethers with small children in hotels can often be fraught for the parents & I wonder if sometimes GPs forget what it was like.

Some of the things you have complained about are just petty. I mean GPs wanting photos of their DGC whatever next! If your child had not been on the photos you would probably have been offended by that too.

If you don't want to split the cost of a bill for a meal you should say so at the time, I wonder how on earth you expected everyone to remember the next day what you had to eat.

I am genuinely not trying to be harsh but I do think you are overreacting to a weekend that wasn't the best but certainly not worth damaging future relations with your in laws.

we should all work as hard as we can to have as good a relationship with the PIL's as possible fir the sake if DS

I'm not sure that is quite the right emphasis, though. I think you need to work to have healthy balanced relationships that work for everyone, including you. It is far more important for your DS to see you having good relationships and maintaining healthy boundaries than martyring yourself in the face of bad behaviour so he can have a relationship with grandparents who quite possibly may care more about the photographs.

If you reply to your MIL (who sounds very hard going-lots of arguably minor things in your OP, certainly, but they do paint a picture of a difficult woman) then I suggest email not text, and saying:

It is not on to commit you to sharing a bill in that way without asking you, especially since it resulted in a significant unfairness to you. Everyone should be consulted; She was not careful enough of DS's safety when she was holding him, and you need her to commit to being much more careful in future.

The stuff about her persistent discourtesy to you is something for your DH to tackle another time, I think. And do mention the text to your DH now, even if you agree to discuss it when he's feeling better.

You will never persuade MIL that the bill was unfair and you'll never persuade her that your baby could have been scalded.

Agree with DistanceCall about sending the reply, so you've said what you think. But don't expect her to agree, and don't engage in further discussion about it, you're on a hiding to nothing.

She won't change. You need to decide what works for you. If you're worried about DS, don't let her and FIL babysit. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, you need to leave your baby with someone you trust. Make other arrangements and just tell her your plans have changed. You don't need to explain or justify.

The fact that she avoids any photos of your DS with you, his mum, speaks volumes.

You know, all I read here is a lack of assertive behaviour on your part. The common factor in all the incidents you describe is you and your response. This is also the only aspect you can control.

You have a child. This means you now have permission to shamelessly put them first at all times.

Photos? No, DS is going to eat now.
Move seats? No, we're sitting with DS.
Any other irritating trivial issue that tends to another adults apparent "needs" or wants? No, I'm strapping DS in/tending to whatever part of your routine puts his safety and wellbeing first.

Provided you remain calm, and breathe, you can deliver these no statements politely with no need for argument.

Your family will learn that if they want to spend time with you and your DC they'll have to work around your routine. If they don't learn, well tough, your DC come first. And everytime you're lacking in confidence, imagine if that cup of coffee had been hot.

Wow what a weekend. Don't do it again, will you? You don't have to let MIL look after your children if you don't think they'll be looked after properly.

Perhaps disengage for a while. I generally leave dh to talk to his parents, especially the bad stuff! We decided not to do the hotel meal thing once, as they were being done yearly (special birthdays, anniversaries etc). They weren't suggested again.

It takes time to establish boundaries with parents, when they become the grandparents, but you do need to. I try and be polite, nice but firm. I usually works- but my dd1 is now 16 so it hasn't happened over night.

Good luck.

I am wading through this, but would warn against sending a text that sounds like excuses upon excuses upon apologies. You have some legitimate gripes here, as well as some pissed-off gripes that might be a bit OTT, so don't apologise/explain or justify just yet. Just wait a bit more and consider it.

I think you should text her back, and be honest.

She has opened a dialogue with you and you need to have the balls to accept the challenge.

but I think your response above is far too wordy and full of too much detail.

Also I think a text saying 'have we done anything wrong' needs to be handled cleverly.

maybe respond with something like 'Dear MIL, could you elaborate? hopefully our leaving when we did after the meal was not an issue'

I wouldn't even bother with all the bill stuff, it's over and done with and you just need to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Just reading about that palaver at the breakfast table made me want to scream for you, Gobbolino.

"MIL's text is obviously still hanging unanswered I'm pissed off that she has texted me and not DH - obviously I'm the problem. But I'm trying to let that go over my head"

I think you should regard it as a good thing that MIL has gone straight to you - because this is your chance to tell the truth.

I agree that "try as hard as poss" to get on is the wrong emphasis. You are trying very hard already, now you need to try to get MIL to listen and understand your needs too.

I would tweak your proposed text a little. It is not enough about what you want her to change.

• I think you should tell her that you were freaked out by the coffee and the knives, and that you are reconsidering the planned day of MIL looking after dc - and that you will need to find other ways / contexts for MIL to bond with dc

• in that vein you can say that communicating about scheduling can help that (like the lunch your family had alone) - evening is not a time for socialising with babies - you can actually say this even though it is obvious

• again, on communication, you can say the bill wasn't split fairly as you and dh didn't get enough to eat and paid a fortune for it. Say you don't expect her to have known that but say that communicating about how the bill was to be split was what you need

• say that you will soon have 2dcs and need her support and know (ha ha ha) that she will be able to work with you on this

• and explicitly name the proposed event that FIL was talking about as a test case. Not use those words but say something like "which is why I am glad that we are already discussing such and such because none of this needs to happen again"

I am not sure that she is necessarily impossible. I think - pain in the arse tho it is - it may be that explicitly, loudly, firmly, making reasonable demands, may get them met.

I have just been out with a group of friends, they are lovely people but I find it exhausting that there are a few alpha-organisers in the group who just do not understand that it is not up to them to make unilateral decisions. A waiter will approach the table and ask a question, and one of them will answer for everyone, and I will have to say that I want something different 3 times, finally in an embarrassingly consciously loud voice, to get it registered. I hate it, but they mean well. Could it be that MIL is one of those? (hopeful)

I agree with Glimmerberyy. And thinking along those lines, a text would be best directed at what you want to happen from now on.

So, no bill-splitting arrangements you don't know about, please, and you expect MIL to take the lead from you re DS and what he needs.

You can send the text yourself. But I think you should at least show it to your husband first, and make it very clear in the message that your husband agrees with everything. As I said, it is crucial that you present a united front - otherwise, you'll just be the bitchy daughter-in-law causing trouble.

And as other posters have said, you need to be more assertive. Polite and calm, but assertive. If you don't want to hand your child over, you don't have to. If you have to hold up the queue to itemise your bill, so be it. If you don't want to leave your child with your parents-in-law, you don't have to give any justifications (other than agree with your partner, who seems to be on the same page as you on this).

Oh god, long texts like that could be interpreted all sorts if ways
I would
just text back and say
Weekend was fraught and v stressful for lots of reasons, I was upset, we should discuss as there's some things is like to run through with you
I wouldn't go through they long list via text

Agree pinkpinot but sometimes you get bulldozed face to face

I wouldn't send her anything. Anything you send her will be circulated amongst whomever and used against you.
Wait until your DH is feeling up to it, then tell him about the text and let him deal with it.

Really. You have no idea what she could do with a text like that.

Agree - even though the text seems reasonable, it WILL be used against you!
Wait until dh gets back, discuss it, decide if and how you're going to respond (text or phone call), compose something together and LET HIM DEAL WITH IT. That lets her know that she can't bypass him like that to get to you.

I get what you mean about the photos OP, my mil has a family photo taken at events like this and then helpfully a separate one for the in-laws!

I would just reduce the time you spend with them in future and don't reply to the text. It will only be used against you.

oh dear it looks as if I am being very naive taking the "what's wrong?" text at face value. Ignore me.

Do not let her look after baby alone.

Dear Mil,

I am pregnant with a young baby. You insisting on mass photography was too much and was stressful and not in baby's or my best interests! Also the bill was huge and you should not have agreed to split it without consultation!

I'm totally confused.

If it's such an ordeal why can't you just distance yourself a bit. Send DH down for breakfast and let them know you have had a bad night and DS is a bit grizzly so he has had something sent up to you and you will be down in half an hour or so when everyone else has had breakfast.

And if the bill's very high why can't you say "look things are a bit tight at the moment so we're going to stay at a BB but would love to join you for the meal".

Take back control OP.

Update - I sent a text based on the v good suggestions in this thread as hoped MIL would be reasonable. Carefully worded it to say that "we" etc gotbabfright re the coffee.

Unfortunately, I should have listened to the other very good suggestions that I shouldn't bother!

Got a very unpleasant text back saying that I should calm down and that babies grab things - er, yes that's why you need to keep things out if their way! Oh, and I was probably upset as I had let DS slip in the high chair

I'm actually quite a non-confrontational person and was hoping that MIL (even if behind our backs was calling us every name under the sun) would text back acknowledging our concerns. What was quite sad was at the end of my text I had said that DS had a bad cough and cold and she was so busy point scoring she didn't even bother to ask how he was.

It's quite hard now. I've down loaded and read half the Toxic Parents In Law book thanks Attila and I kno that DH is not suddenly going to say that MIL is a complete pillock. What I want to do is support him and not let her drive a wedge between us.

I nearly burst a blood vessel when I read the text - nice one, MIL, to make your 7 month pregnant DIL feel like that but I suppose being "right" is more important than any effects on me.

I'm going to speak to DH tonight about how to proceed. Part of me wants to reply and say that it's a shame she can't acknowledge our concerns so its best all round if she doesn't look after DS in November. However, another bit of me is thinking I should ignore it and rise above it. Need to read the rest of the book.