MIL - please help me get some perspective.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

Right - this will be long but dint want to drip feed

I get on relatively well with MIL and FIL. MIL is quite selfish and FiL is very passive so facilitates that. They don't have many friends so family is, ostensibly, everything to them. However, it looks to me as though its more about show in that they won't ever rush to help us out practically but it's very important that we turn up for family events so that MIL can a have 50,000 photos to put on facebook. MILs needs always come first and I find her attitude quite bizarre - an example being that once FIL popped into see us and said that he wouldn't tell MIL as she would be cross. What? Rather than pleased he had seen us?

MIL was very controlling when DH was growing up. She has tried to interfere a bit with us but DH has, to be fair, been good at putting his foot down re this.

MIL has a complicated family background where her father died when she was young and her mother remarried. She had another child who is clearly the favourite - albeit he lives in London and MIL provides much more practical support. FIL's parents are pretty much sidelined and not offered any assistance

Now, to get to the point. It was MIL's brother's favourite child birthday recently and it was decided that we would all go to a hotel to celebrate. We have one DC aged 10 months and I am 7 month's pregnant.

one thing that pisses me off massively is that there is no communication regarding these events. So we have often been left hanging about/wondering whether to have lunch etc. DH is good now at just ensuring we do our own thing and eat etc. So we arrive, check in, have lunch etc. PIL's don't arrive til 4 so don't see DS as he's gone for a sleep. Obviously, if they had wanted to see him, they coukd have arrived earlier.

We go for the meal in the hotel which is very expensive and terrible. dH's and my main courses were £35 each and are taken off the bill as they are inedible. Favoured son, his wife and their 4 children all have meals that are fine. Favoured son orders lots of expensive wine. To be fair, DH has a few glasses. I have quarter of a glass and then two lemonades.

MIL is at her bossy worst but I manage to politely ignore here. This morning we come down for breakfast. There are two seats left beside a high chair that is obviously for DS. DH and I go to the seats to have MIL start chuntering something about DS's sister and her boyfriend needing to sit there. I tell her not to worry, we can get seats for them but we need to sit beside DS as there is no other room at the table in the fucking special room organised for breakfast

MIL then starts organising fir the waitress to take group photos RIGHT NOW and pointedly telling me to sit down now as I'm trying to get DS into the high chair. As we are quite flustered, we don't do the high chair strap properly our fault, I know and DS slips nearly out of the high chair and gets caught under the tray cringe. He is crying and I'm trying to get him out and sort things out and comfort him when MIL comes and starts pestering me about holding him and taking him for a walk as they've not seen him yet er, turn up earlier yesterday?. I say OK as he's just stopped crying. MIL then takes him off to have 5,000 photos taken. She's so busy doing this that she doesn't bother moving anything from her place and, as a result, DS pulls a cup of coffee over himself. Thankfully it was luke warm but my nerves are totally jangled by this point. She ignores all of this and FIL keeps snapping whilst DS grabs a knife. By this stage I actually feel like bursting into tears but I don't want to cause a scene.

I then stand up to take him back and MIL very pointedly refuses to hand him over to anyone but DH so he can hold him for the "next photograph". So we all trot off to have another family photo with MIL making sure that DH and his sister and she and DS are front and centre. I'm shoved at the back like a gestational carrier.

I'm fuming at MIL's complete lack of insight into danger and the fact that she must have known I was worried about DS but has refused to hand him over. Accidents happen. I know that and I am definitely not paranoid or over protective. I was happy for the favourite son's wife to take DS into another room fr about half an hour whilst we finished our lunch and think its good for him to go to everyone and have a little cuddle. But I do expect people to show a bit if common sense and put his safety above their need to take to photos. If an accident happens, I expect them to acknowledge it and that I might be a bit a bit worried about him - reasonably.

The PILs want us to go back to their house - about 10 miles away but I point blank refuse to DH and insist we go home. DH packs the car and I go to check out. The restaurant bill is huge. Query this and find out that MIL has called reception and said we will divide bill per room. Favourite son and his wife and 4 children are staying in 2 rooms so have paid far less per person and enjoyed the discount of our main meals being take off the bill. Favourite son is a millionaire, BTW. But MIL, the big cheese, has decided without asking us that we will subsidise them. As well as paying £350 no, that's not a typo for our room.

I am now very cross but pay up to save embarrassment. We are certainly not poverty struck but I have given up my job to be a stay at home mum and DH is about to buy a dental practice so money is pretty tight as we're having to pay a deposit etc.

I get DS into the car. By this stage, I do not want to see MIL. FIL then appears and starts chuntering in about MIL's 60th birthday next year - which is approximately 3 weeks after our baby is due. Apparently they would like us to trek 60 miles away, go out for a meal and stay the night. FIL helpfully suggests that I could stay in the hotel room with 13 month old DS and a 3 week old if I didn't feel up to the meal.

I then get into the car. I know I was rude here as I didn't say bye to everyone and I know that was rude.

DH appears and we zoom off. I tell DH understatement of the century that I am rather pissed off with MIL and do bit want her to look after DS on his own as she seems to have no regard for his safety and no insight into how to avoid accidents. She and FIL are meant to be looking after him fir the day in 3 weeks.

DH thinks this is harsh, blah, blah blah. He's never been scalded bybMIL. More by luck than design, I think. He agrees that the coffee thing was dangerous though and he did say to her to be careful at the time.

I don't know if I am over reacting here. Also, I don't know whether I should actually, once calmer, speak to her about all of this. I am massively pissed off. Maybe I didn't handle things well though. I don't know.

Sorry this is so long but can I have some advice!

[DollyTwat]

I am a firm believer in that you are entitled to be as precious as you like about your own baby. It's rude of other people to dismiss your concerns and requests over YOUR baby

It doesnt matter if SHE thinks you were overreacting. It upset you to the point you don't want her to look after him. That's the point here

Stick to your guns op, this is the thin end of the wedge and she needs to acknowledge she upset you and needs to listen to any concerns

[youretoastmildred]

Definitely time to bring DH into this
I am sorry if I encouraged you to take a wrong turn here but at least it has brought out into the open that she was not sincerely asking "what's wrong?" but spoiling for a fight.
Work with DH on doing everything on your terms from now on. It may now be necessary to make him do the communicating but you and he must do all the deciding (not her)

[Thumbfuckerwitch]

DO NOT REPLY!!

Not worth it. Leave it to DH. And forget "rising above it" - remember this isn't about the adults, it's about your DC's safety, every time.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

mildred - don't apologise! I didn't realise what a loon MIL is. My family are completely different so I just did think she would acknowledge our concerns so we could move on

Now I've calmed down, I actually think she's a bloody idiot who's playing herself completely offside here.

Will speak to DH when he gets home. I have composed various texts but will not be sending them

To those of you who have tosser inlaws - how does it work? Presumably if DH talks her into acknowledging our worries,we could move on. I'm not one to hold a grudge but I do feel massively uncomfortable around her now

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"Part of me wants to reply and say that it's a shame she can't acknowledge our concerns so its best all round if she doesn't look after DS in November. However, another bit of me is thinking I should ignore it and rise above it. Need to read the rest of the book".

Certainly read the rest of the book and do not under any circs reply further. Any text messages you send will be used against you, she will continue to lash out and if she is a narcissist her hatred holds no bounds.

I am not at all surprised to see that you yourself come from a family where thankfully such dysfunctional family crap like this is unknown so please do not blame yourself for replying anyway initially; you were trying to be reasonable. Unfortunately it has not worked because at heart you are dealing with someone who is inherently unreasonable and is not in any way receptive to any views you care to put to her. Its her way or no way to her mind. Your views to her do not matter at all.

I doubt also very much that your DH will be able to get her to acknowledge any worries; this man may also be to some extent be in FOG with regards to his mother - fear, obligation and guilt. Your main problem re him is that he has had a lifetime of such conditioning at the hands of his toxic mother and as such he thinks that most aspects of her behaviours are on some level normal. He may well find it difficult if not impossible to assert his own authority at all. He certainly has to remember his primary loyalty now is to you and not his mother.

I would limit as far as possible your own contact with her and I would also include your children in that too. Your DH can see her if he wants to, you do not have to. You are really under no obligation at all to them when toxic relatives are concerned.

Do not forget her own H in all this, such women always but always need a willing enabler to help them. As it the case here.

I would also read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder with regards to your MIL. If you decide that she is a narcissist in terms of personality it is really not possible to have any sort of relationship with her.

DO NOT let her have your DS in November to look after!!!. You need to make alternative arrangements now.

[YellowTulips]

You are never going to be in the right with this woman. She obviously wants to be the centre of attention at all times and you are not going to be able to reason with her - so stop playing the game.

So as a first put your foot down about the next event. You are not going. Any fool would be able to foresee that planning such an event 3 weeks after a due date is bloody stupid if they expected your (and your DH's) participation as mandatory. You could be late and have a baby a few days old - would your DH even want to attend then?

The whole bill issue was rude. If you do attend any future events then state up front you are not going to do this. Personally I find some of this a bit OTT anyway, by which I mean the whole family being dragged to a posh hotel to celebrate your DH's Uncle Birthday.

I get it more in the case of your MIL's 60th - but these are very expensive events and I think some showing off is involved here - rather than a focus on a celebration and family time.

Finally don't get into a text row with her. Just ignore. Its the most powerful weapon you have for someone who thrives on attention.

[YellowTulips]

Think about this another way OP. Lets say you posted something like this in AIBU:

---

Its my MIL's 60th Birthday next year and a family event is being planned. This will be in an upmarket hotel and will involve an overnight stay and long evening meal with the extended family. The event will be about 60 miles from where me and my DH live.

In normal circumstances this would not be an issue and I would accept the "invitation" (read mandatory summons) with good grace, however, in this case the circumstances are as follows:

1. I am due to give birth to our second child 3 weeks before the event. So I will have a 1 year old child plus a baby of anywhere between 6 weeks and a few days old at that point in time. Clearly I don't know what shape I will be in following labour and its unlikely that we will have settled into any routine, thus the thought of travel and being away from home is very worrisome.

1. The last similar family event left me very annoyed. Without going into too much detail, MIL enjoys being the centre of attention both during and after the event. This involves taking of copious amounts of photos for her to display on Facebook afterwards for everyone to "coo" over. The photos are more important than anything else (taken breakfast, dinner, arrival, departure) in this case even more than when holding my son being too busy directing photos to stop him reaching out for her coffee which she spilt on him (thankfully not hot enough to cause damage - but by luck only). As a final point MIL decided with no input to spilt the bill equally amongst the family. This ended up myself and my DH paying £100's more than we expected, significantly subsidising more affluent members of the wider family.

So to the point of my question. AIBU to say we wont attend MIL's planned 60th but instead say we would "love" to take them out for a lovely meal a month or so after the birth of our 2nd DC somewhere near to where we live?

-----

What responses do you think you would get?

[Thumbfuckerwitch]

I can guarantee that you would still get a few responses along the lines of "Suck it up, she's your MIL, she's only going to have one 60th birthday" and
"I wish my MIL was able to have a 60th birthday do, sadly she died"
and
"OFGS, it's one event, get over yourself, other people manage to do XYZ within hours of giving birth"
and
"It's faaaamily, isn't it - it's more important than money"
etc. etc.
in among the "No! Don't go!" and kind messages showing understanding of the OP's situation.

You should know that by now, Yellow!

[YellowTulips]

Actually the similar threads I have seen are pretty overwhelming in support of an OP in a situation like this :-)

[Thumbfuckerwitch]

Yes, but just look at this one - some of the comments on here aren't exactly kind to the OP.

I know what you mean - mostly people are pretty good at being supportive in these situations but you do frequently get the odd nay-sayer.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

thumb .

I have calmed down somewhat. Am planning to speak to MIL tonight

attila - thank you for the advice in your last post and everyone else

What do people think about trying to paint MIL into a corner somewhat? I'm considering asking DH to say to her that our biggest concern is that she will not acknowledge our worries about keeping DS safe. Therefore, she has a choice. Either she does so with good grace or, alternatively, she can certainly see DS but she and FIL are not looking after him on their own. It is her choice so no victim playing

In terms of the texts etc, she can contact DH directly if she's got any issues not me as whatever she may or may not think about me, I'm 7 months pregnant and it is not fair or acceptable to be upsetting me. I really do not want to receive anymore texts like that and if she won't agree, I'll just block her number. Again, I used to text her photos etc but I won't be doing that if I block her number. Again, her choice though.

I'm sure she'll bluster etc but DH can just stick to a simple script and keep saying "it's your choice".

If I was reading this, I would wonder why I wasn't just totally ignoring her for therest of her life. I'd love to. I would really like to never see her again in my life. But I'm conscious that DH does love his parents and I also want to set up a situation where, if other family members ask or criticise us, we can say it wasn't us stopping her seeing DS - but her choice.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

Not speak to MIL tonight Christ speak to DH

[Thumbfuckerwitch]

Coo, glad you changed that to speaking to DH, not MIL! :)

You can try the painting her into a corner, but be aware that it will still be your fault. You will be denying her the chance to visit her grandchildren. Nothing will ever be mentioned about her inability to pay attention to his safety, OH no. It will be portrayed as you being over-cautious to the point of neurotic, and refusing to let ANYone other than yourself and DH have any care of him because you're so precious.

And again - she may only pay lip-service to your concerns - do you really honestly trust her to keep your DC safe? Because I'd need to see some better evidence than she's displayed so far (and that would involve seeing her again) before I let her have sole care of my DC.

Talk to DH anyway - see what he thinks and says - and as long as you both present a united front, you'll be better able to deal with whatever shit she throws at you.

[Brucietheshark]

Nonononononono

Imo you need to disengage a bit more. All those ideas will make you sound like the unreasonable one. I mean it sounds a bit like they have to SAY they were wrong about the coffee but if they don't they won't see your DS unsupervised. Sounds petty and blackmaily to anyone that doesn't understand the back-story. The reality is I wouldn't want them to have him on their own anyway - but I don't need to tell them this.

The stuff about how you shouldn't be upset at 7 months pregnant and you don't want to receive texts like that again could also sound unreasonable tbh. I'm not one that feels I need special emotional consideration at 7 months pregnant (apart, perhaps, from an acceptance that I might sound a tad more irrational than usual). Also, her text was in direct reply to one of yours that could be portrayed as confrontational - plays right into the 'you started it' approach.

You cannot reason with people like this and you can rarely call their bluff of make them respond to ultimatums. Ignoring as much as possible and disengaging is the ONLY way to go. But that's just my take on it of course :)

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

Right - yes. You're all right

I'm not normally overly precious about being pregnant but I really did feel very upset about her text - partucularly when mine was not confrontational in return (and DH agrees with that). I was shaking when I read hers this morning and actually seeing stars. Was quite odd. So I kind of took the view that that amount of adrenalin was probably not vetygood for the baby. Obviously she diesnt give a fuck about me but I thought she might about the baby

Aarrrggh - this is a nightmare. Why did I not marry an orphan

[tobiasfunke]

I have just read this quickly OP and I apologise if I have missed something. I have PIL's like this. DH has one sister who is the golden child and she and her family can do no wrong. DH and I and our DS are second class citizens who are there for photos for family dos, to pay our share and for backup when SIL lets them down. MIL is totally self absorbed and quite frankly behaves like a loon at times. She is not interested in our DS unless she wants a million photos to show her friends or for other people to see her holding him.

She is not allowed to look after him on his own now as the few times we did she just abandoned him- (when he was 20 months old we left him for 2 hours and she went to bed and fell asleep and FIL went out to Tesco and left the back door open.)
However we said nothing because we knew it would be me being precious and so we just never let them look after him again- not that they really wanted to.

The only way to deal with her is to disengage- be polite but distant and take no shit. Make sure she only deals with your DH. I spent the first 6 months of this year not actually communicating at all with MIL because when I did she was horrible. It was very liberating It took me 20 years to work this out. You cannot change someone as self absorbed as your MIL the more you pander the more she will disregard your feelings. You probably feel like I did for years that the right and proper thing is to say nothing and be respectful to your inlaws. This is only any good if they are sane. If not it is pointless.

I feel for you. I have ongoing problems but deal with them better. As for photos I used to be in the back but recently I was told not to bother as BIL wasn't there and it was family only. I have only been with DH for 21 years.

[oscarwilde]

It's fairly simple. This woman is a pain in the rear. You can choose to let her bother you and stress you out, or not. That choice is yours and yours alone to make. If she turned up tomorrow morning and was unreasonable, it is within your control to smile sweetly, ignore her and let it wash over your head. Trust me on this, it just takes some practice.

The weekend sounded unpleasantly stressful and expensive and I get that you are hacked off but IMO, allowing yourself to be flustered into not securing your DS's in his highchair is probably what is annoying you so much. Accidents happen, we all do it occasionally and I don't think it is fair to hold her responsible even if she is an annoying PITA.

I would shelve the conversation about the cost of the meal. You have missed that boat. If your DH will attend the 60th celebration by himself, just ensure that it is clear that he will be paying only his share. Personally I would do that and not offer to celebrate later. Get your parents to come and help out and send him off. She will have to deal without two small children about if she wants a dinner event. Tough.

Vis the day of childcare while you do the NCT thing. Tread carefully would be my advice. If they are coming to your home (stairgates, no low level ornaments etc etc) and you can trust your FIL to watch over your DS then it should be a safe environment for your DS even if your MIL is a bit flakey. If your FIL will be tapped into the TV all day and totally oblivious to what is going on, I would make alternative arrangements and simply explain that the NCT times changed and it was easier to arrange a babysitter who would take DS to his scheduled soft play/baby sensory/etc etc.

[redcaryellowcar]

I did read your op, but only some of the responses, so sorry if I have missed some stuff or repeating.
I think its totally unreasonable to split the bill without you offering, if it were my parents asking us to come away for the weekend they would be offering to pay (my pil wouldn't)
on the safety of your dc, I certainly wouldn't in same circumstances leave my dc with them, I wouldn't sever all contact but I certainly wouldn't let them look after dc nor dictate who was holding dc etc, think on this you need to be confident and assertive, tricky but pretend if necessary.
as for future meet up I think I would take dc to my parents or ask my dmum to come to me and say to dh that he is of course welcome to go, but not easy for newborn to be v involved in birthday meal.
please don't question yourself too much on this especially the safety of your children, I think your mummy instincts are fully operational!
lastly I would suggest that your dh takes over communications, ideally using the 'we think...' I found that I really don't mind if dh says things like 'redcar is poorly, so we can't meet up...' as I would prefer them to think badly of me than put my children at risk!

[brass]

I feel for you Tobias, I am 18 years down the line and recently NC with them although she still sends letters out of the blue. The last one she wrote two days after a relative died presumably imagining it would corner DH and I into feeling sorry for her. Manipulative much? A normal person might be busying themselves with grieving and making funeral arrangements but she is fixated with putting us on the spot. We are going to the funeral and no doubt she will see that as an opportunity for another performance.

Her letter requests a positive response to seeing the DC from time to time. So although they are unequal to other GDC and largely ignored and often gossiped about she feels an entitlement to know what is going on in their lives, wants access to them without acknowledging the campaign of bitchy behaviour towards us all over the years, our version of events conveniently erased of course.

I have not responded to the letter at all.
No acknowledgment of receipt or reply returned. Nor do I intend to.

You are right ignoring them is by far the most powerful response for such attention seekers.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

It's actually really sad reading about others people's issues too. I always knew that MIL was a pain in the ass but we've managed to rub along pretty much ok until now. It's interesting - obviously she gets the rough end of it with her mother who she panders too etc. she's managed to pretty much sideline FIL's parents and he is estranged from two of his brothers. He's a total wet fish and does exactly what he's told so from the little I've gleaned from DH, it seems that MIL is really behind these issues.

I'm wondering if this situation is all about the fact that MIL is. Expecting me to take on her role in the family dynamic whilst she gets to take on that of her mother - I.e she gets to bully me whilst I need to take it lying down. Which I won't

To those of you with similar probs, have your DH's/DP's been absolutely 100 percent on your side so to speak and/or have they found it hard to stick up to MILs?

I forgot to mention but MIL is apparently sending DH a cheque fir some of the

[brass]

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

Sorry - last post cut off

Apparently MIL is sending us a cheque for some of the food costs etc. DH mentioned this in passing last night. I didn't ask why as I don't really care. The money is very much secondary

[oscarwilde]

My MIL takes it upon herself to invite my BIL (favourite child) and his girlfriend to Sunday lunch at ours when she visits, without consultation. He doesn't ever reciprocate or ask her to visit but is still goldenballs and it is totally unacceptable that we would cook something that he wouldn't care to eat.... or rearrange our plans if he deigns to be available at the last minute.

My DH has been treated as the lessor child all his life and now lets it wash over him rather than make an issue out of it and deal with the histronics that would ensue. He agrees to change menus and delay lunch until BIL's invariably horribly late arrival. Hilariously, BIL has no compunction about upsetting her, in our house and then disappears home and leaves us to deal with the fall out about how he doesn't love her yada yada.

I'd happily do confrontation with both of them but DH doesn't want that. So, because my DH doesn't put his foot down, I now make it his problem to deal with the catering issues and have very loudly told him in front of his mother that BIL is not welcome at short notice, that we will not be altering mealtimes to mid afternoon (with two small DC) because BIL can't be arsed to get out of bed etc etc. You get the picture. I have made it completely clear that it is unacceptable behaviour and I won't stand for it again. MIL has now ceased to invite him and where invites are offered with our agreement, has taken to reminding BIL that his dinner will be in the microwave if he doesn't show up on time.

Amusingly, MIL is prone to bouts of self pity whereupon she claims she was emotionally abused as a child by her mother who clearly preferred her younger sister. Total lack of self awareness.

If your MIL is the person who drives invites to self promotional events, it is well within your control to respond copying everyone/key people in to say. "we'd love to come, but can we just establish budget/division of cost in advance" or "we'd love to come, but it's just not possible on this occasion as I will have a newborn. Happy to attend a lunchtime event at least 12 weeks after 1st Dec, but DH happy to attend on your actual birthday". A clear statement of intent with nothing open to interpretation is your friend here.

[oscarwilde]

Because she now believes that it is all about the money, or that by sending it, she can now absolve herself of any further issues

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

oscar - think you are right. Your MIL sounds a peach

Sorry - rabbitting now. One thing I am worried about is that if I cut off from MIL, is that DH consciously or unconsciously will start pulling back from my parents - whom I'm really close to as they don't act like nutters