I can't' believe AnyFucker has been banned!

[Piffalato]

Seriously! For 'too many personal attacks'!

There is no doubt in my mind what happened here, especially as I was on the thread that was allegedly the tipping point, according to the E mail sent to AF by MNHQ, which Justine cut, pasted and posted publically last night.

It was IMO a gross error of judgement to pick that thread when the context of it was AF's unstinting support to the OP and a range of posts (not just from one poster) that either mocked or goaded the OP herself, or other posters who were actually listening to the OP and trying to help her work through a difficult and sensitive juncture in her life.

From the picture I've built up of AF though, she's not only a magnificent, kind, strong woman who genuinely cares about people on the other side of the screen who need advice, she's not stupid and I can imagine feels a bit powerless and frustrated by the effect her banning has created.

I reckon she knows all about 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' because we've seen it happen before on Mumsnet. I can imagine she's cringed at some of the (understandable) support because she knows from experience that whe it happens, there will always be a backlash from posters who get miffed by one poster receiving admiration, however well-deserved that good reputation is.

So she'd be the last person to endorse any suggestions that this board would crumble without her and if I've judged her correctly, would hope instead that what's happened generates the real discussions that should be happening.

The one about how Mumsnet protects its users from trolls, goaders and personal attacks in all their various guises. It would be a mistake to think those trolls, goaders and attackers are all male misogynists or Men's Rights Activists, as it's a mistake to think that misogynists are always male. The individuals we are talking about are women as well as men.

Then another discussion about the bigger picture of how feminist voices are being silenced online generally and how sites whose brand name is gendered and therefore blatantly invites women users, ought to be at the forefront of a campaign to stop that silencing and yes, hate speech against women.

That's what I believe AF would like to happen and if she returns I hope she'll comment. Until then, I reckon she'd want everyone else to keep helping posters in difficulty, reporting those who aren't in the business of doing that.

I have to say that I am also a bit surprised by some OTT posts about how life will end if AF is not around, or people who might not post if she's around, or will only post to get her advice.

However, the only comments that have annoyed me a bit are those that stated that rules should be bent for AF.

From what MNHQ said, she had many warnings and has acknowledged that she broke them, and it would seem has been more sporty about it all than many posters around.

As for me, I'll much rather have AF around than not, but, preferably, with less deleted posts. not giving goaders the satisfaction. That's all. :)

Well put indeed, Leavenheath.

Good one Leaven.

Then another discussion about the bigger picture of how feminist voices are being silenced online generally and how sites whose brand name is gendered and therefore blatantly invites women users, ought to be at the forefront of a campaign to stop that silencing and yes, hate speech against women

FGS - she's been banned for a week for being rude

I agree with that proposition, even though I think the reaction to AF's ban is a bit OTT.
Yes, it's only a week.

But I think there should be some thought into how to deal with attempts at silencing women's voices. Such as claiming that people here use LTB for perfectly nice and loving partners. Or blaming cheating on problems at home, or blaming DV victims or rape victims.
Crucially, we, as posters must always challenge those wanting to silence women, but in a way that does not do a disservice to the women we don't want to be silenced.

Are you sayinbg that you shouldn't disagree with women posters? Even if you hve a different opinon? Because they are women?

No.

Specific disagreements are healthy.

I mean generic threads or comments about how some people on MN always say LTB, supposesly even when the guy is essentially a good bloke, without concrete examples.
And consistent victim blaming.

It's difficult to address and fight against, but it's a form of pressure to silence victims and the people defending them.

The huge support the lady in question is getting doesn't surprise me but I can only tell you that I (a man) started two threads where I was genuinely wanting any help or advice I could get and sought different women's views.
Some really nice women tried to be as helpful as they could, which I appreciated a lot. They were able to be polite and nice to me even though they would sometimes criticise me regarding what I'd done or not done, and so on. But, in contrast to that, I got nothing but crude, scathing, sniping remarks and insults from her, all seemingly aimed at belittling me and making me feel like a worthless creep who had no right to even ask here on a board expressly intended for women.
There was a viciousness and roughness about what she said which I found very unpleasant. Downright nasty, in fact. And needless to say, completely unhelpful. A few others joined in, of course.
I don't have a high opinion of myself and know I've made loads of mistakes so I honestly wasn't looking for or feeling I deserved any sympathy, or people to agree with me. I just wanted comments and advice. Impartial views.
But she seemed to take a dislike to me from the very beginning, for no reason obvious to me, and seemed bent on treating me with utter disdain and contempt. I feel sure that I being a man must have had a lot to do with it. It certainly made me feel I'd never be so daft as to ask anything here again and leave myself open to being bullied and trashed and practically stood on.
I was pretty shocked that anyone could get away with that kind of behaviour. And now I'm not surprised that some people have reported her for the way she conducts herself sometimes. I certainly didn't, so it had absolutely nothing to do with me, by the way. I only look here now once in a while just out of occasional, stupid curiosity in a spare moment.
This was my own personal experience of her but I accept that she will have been very helpful to many women here and is extremely supportive to women in need. But I've no idea whether she's ever had any wish to help a man.

Yeah, in the last week I've been lumped in with "women whose husbands have done the dirty on them/are in horrible marriages..." when I've repeatedly posted on other (appropriate) places to say how lucky I am to have a genuinely wonderful husband I am crazy about. The thing is, being in a lovely, happy relationship makes me more likely to tell a miserably abused woman to LTB because I know it's not normal, not right, and there are fantastic men out there who would never ever treat anyone that way.

Disagreeing on advice on a thread is one thing. We've all given outlier advice sometimes, I imagine (expect?). But telling a woman whose husband is fucking around/forcing sex on her when she's said no that she needs to look to her own behaviour/offer more sex/learn to be kinkier is not helpful or acceptable, and the fact telling such an advisor so is highly likely to result in them sneering that you, plural, plainly have a miserable relationship and they just are more realistic about life is a way to shut down a woman-centred approach to a woman's life situation.

In the 1970s a big article on the Women's Movement was posted in, if I recall correctly, Time Magazine. And a letter was sent to the editor from a woman, who said words to the effect: "There is a certain look in the eye of a woman who knows she is truly loved by a man. That look is not present in any of the women in your article."

It appears that little, in some ways, has changed in the past 40 years.

AF is an AMAZING poster. She has taken the time to PM me on a couple of occasions when I was at an ALL TIME LOW.

Yes, she is straight talking and doesn't suffer fools gladly but she is awesome.

If you are reading AF - you'll never appreciate how much you've helped me. Can you buy the domain name Fuckernet.com and we can all go there instead :)

BRING BACK AF!!!!

differentnameforthis - I really wasn't talking about you when I mentioned new posters. I think your current name is actually kind of telling that you're obviously a namechange.

Over on AIBU there have been at least three posters over the past few days that have made seriously nasty PAs against OPs for seemingly no reason other than that they could.

Sorry if it seemed like I was having a go at you

FFS MN will not collapse without her.

90% of the time AF gave great advice that cut through the crap. But she phoned it in. Anyone could "channel" AF. It just involves thinking the absolute worst of the man in the picture and encouraging the woman to be as tough as possible. As I say, 90% of the time that turns out to be the correct advice. But AF hardly personalised it. I have to say I rarely saw anything that suggested she really understand OPs as individuals. She was just wise enough to know that most bullshit is the same bullshit. But we could franchise AF happily.

I think your current name is actually kind of telling that you're obviously a namechange

I have been in this guise now for a few years, search me & you will see.

I saved you the trouble, first use I can find is 2008

That would have been under a different name then, trashed ?

That would have been under a different name then, trashed ?

Why does that actually matter? All it says is that you were petty enough to search his current user name! Why can't you just accpet his post at face value?

He is right, as soon as I open a post from a guy looking for advice, I wait for AF or those like her to come in & start tearing him apart, using any small little thing he has posted to use against him.

Doesn't matter what he says, it gets turned around. One I remember is where he was told that he was unreasonable posting about his wife's lack of sex drive...but don't women do just that at least once a week on here??

Why can't you just accpet his post at face value?

Why the fuck should I? I was being curious when I looked it up, not petty. It would have been interesting to see why the poster felt belittled and got at. (Hell, I might have been on that thread myself, behaving badly. I do sometimes.) OK, you may call it petty that I then commented on not finding one. And maybe it was. But petty to even look? No.

I have seen what Trashed has reported a few times recently. It's not nice. It's as though the posters giving the advice dislike men.

Sometimes they recognise that they give impartial advice because they are women.

Although it's difficult to be 100% impartial.
When a man complains about lack of sex, it reminds me of why I ended up not liking sex with exH. And it's hard to probe about it without virtually accusing the male poster of abuse. :)

But I have seen the opposite claim that the man owes sex to the woman. [erm]

As for the lack of sex question, I think it's easier for posters to blame the man than to face up to the possibility they may have neglected their own DH.

Although it's difficult to be 100% impartial.
When a man complains about lack of sex, it reminds me of why I ended up not liking sex with exH. And it's hard to probe about it without virtually accusing the male poster of abuse
Exactly, good or bad there is a lot of projection when a man asks a question.

Also I remember recently a thread about a woman who was abusive to her DH, the DH came here and his wife was given every excuse under the sun again because posters where projecting.
local.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1882321-Tantrums-and-petty-behaviour

De-lurking to protest at this news - she's a great poster!!