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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Ex DH not getting 5 yr old DD to sleep until 10 on school nights

105 replies

Piaffle · 19/10/2013 10:44

Really don't know what to do about this. DD is 5. We share custody 50/50 and because of his job he has her on 3 school nights.

He is aware of all the research that says how much lack of sleep damages children. He thinks education is important but still does this.

When is is in a good mood he will agree she should be in bed for 8, so as to be asleep for 8.30. He never actually does this though and when he is in a bad mood he will claim that he never agreed that in the first place.

He is a good dad in most other ways and I think don't think a court would stop her living with him just because of this. I also think a custody battle would be more damaging for DD than lack of sleep .

It is parents' evening soon but I think it would be wrong to try and get the teacher onside with this as she would be getting involved in an argument between divorcing parents. He would be very good at making me look bad for doing that. He is very good at looking reasonable to the outside world.

Also it might be difficult as DD doesn't necessarily act 'tired' but it comes out in moodiness, whinyness etc.

I could cry. The days when I can't wake her up are so horrible, and I'm sure it's affecting her at school. He says any behavioural problems at school are because I have broken up the family.

I feel like saying I will not take her in on days when she is too tired, but again, I think that will make me look like the unreasonable one.

Is there anything you can suggest, I don't know what to do!

OP posts:
prettywhiteguitar · 19/10/2013 23:10

How bloody rude I would certainly not go to parents evening with ds's dad ! But I can understand if there is a lack of time slots on the night. I would ask to go separately on another day if possible, speak to the teacher as he is undermining you, don't beat about the bush some people have never had to deal with total idiot exp/exh so just don't understand the dynamics.

I would totally not bother talking to your exh but make sure dd goes to bed super early on the wed and thurs maybe even get in bed for 6.30, fri stay up till 7pm and rest of the weekend ?

RandomMess · 19/10/2013 23:14

Yes I'm afraid I'd keep getting her up at 7am on a Sat and a Sunday so she is knackered and he suffers the consequenses, hopefully it would only take a couple of weeks before he mentioned something?

What is the absolute latest you can get dd up in the morning? I mean if you physically dress her and let her have some toast on the way to school type thing? I would even let her go to bed later at yours on a Fri and Sat night so the exhaustion has kicked in by the Monday morning!

Mellowandfruitful · 19/10/2013 23:18

I would speak to the teacher. It's very unfair on your DD, and not fair on you. Is the job situation ever likely to change? It does strike me as unfair too that you never get a weekend off, as it were.

flippinada · 19/10/2013 23:20

How would it make things worse (not asking to get at you, genuine question) - do you mean he will take it out on DD, or will he be unpleasant to you?

What I'm trying to get at is, yes he might kick off, be unpleasant etc but what will he actually do - is it more the thought of what might happen or what he might do that worries you? Again not saying this to be critical, I was very frightened of mine for a long time after we split.

I know what you mean about friends - do you have any family that could help you out there, even just giving moral support at the end of a phone if they're at a distance. Just a suggestion btw - I do appreciate not everyone has supportive friends/family.

Original poster
Piaffle · 19/10/2013 23:21

Oh god I've just talked myself into getting up early tomorrow morning! Aargh Grin

Is there any downside to that plan anyone can think of?

I think you're right about not engaging with him. But he's doing the whole nice/nasty thing even since we've split up, and I keep getting pulled back in. Not to a relationship I hasten to add, but periodically I think I could imagine being friendly with him (and I think this would benefit DD) so we get together to talk and for a little while that's good, then he goes weird and starts gas lighting like we're living in black and white and I step back.

This is clearly a step back moment, but it's such a shame because when he isn't be ping awful, he's great.

OP posts:
Original poster
Piaffle · 19/10/2013 23:27

I sometimes let her sleep a bit late, and give her an extra 20 mins, but I find that makes the morning even more stressful and doesn't seem to make her any less tired.

When I say that it will make it worse I think he will start mentally justifying himself and get all worked up about it and become more entrenched in his position.

OP posts:
flippinada · 19/10/2013 23:29

That is very familiar.

Honestly, I would not bother trying to be friends with him. No need to be rude or unpleasant. Aim for civil. Remember you don't have to do what he says and if he has a strop, let him get on with it.

Good luck.

Original poster
Piaffle · 19/10/2013 23:32

Thank you.

OP posts:
KeepCoolCalmAndCollected · 19/10/2013 23:43

She may get seriously over-tired if he still maintains what he is doing.

A friend's ex constantly complains about their young DD going to nursery full-time (8.30 to 5.30) 5 days a week (mother has to work), yet he will still get her back very late on 'his' days, because he is a self-centred t. Consquently child often gets run-down/poorly ;-(

It's a very difficult situation, but I think when you are dealing with t*** like this, the only way to 'try' and do it is through a figure of authority.

Original poster
Piaffle · 19/10/2013 23:45

KeepCool you may be right. I think I could try for maybe four weeks and see what happens.

OP posts:
KeepCoolCalmAndCollected · 19/10/2013 23:59

Regardless of the parent's evening, I think it is important your DD's teacher is aware of what is currently happening, because she may attribute her tiredness down to something else (being a bit behind or being away with the fairies etc - sorry that sounds really bad, but you know what I mean), or lets face it think it's your poor parenting when clearly it is not.

Remember teachers come across these sorts of situations and problems - you will not be the only one, and at the end of the day a good teacher will be there to help and support your daughter.

It might be an idea to also post this in Primary Education - a lot of teachers post on there and you could ask for their views.

Original poster
Piaffle · 20/10/2013 00:13

That's a great idea, I think I would like to mention it to the teacher, but just so she is aware rather than get her to challenge DH and it would be good to get teachers ideas on how best to word that.

OP posts:
KeepCoolCalmAndCollected · 20/10/2013 00:31

Yep - anything that affects your daughter's schooling like this needs to be known, so that understanding and help can be obtained.
(Don't want to be cynical but remember it's in their interests, because they want good results!).
Good Luck x

zipzap · 20/10/2013 07:26

It's worth saying something to the teacher - at our infants school when the parents come for their induction before school starts, early bed times and their importance is something that gets heavily stressed.

Maybe if you were to talk to her in advance and ask her if she has noticed any behaviours attributable to tiredness and if so could she raise them at parents evening as if it is something she has noted herself - As if saying it is a problem she has noticed and both of you need to deal with it rather than saying 'your wife says there's a problem when dd is with you'. And ifshediednt think there is a problem then she doesn't need to raise it.

How well would your dd cope if you were to chat to her about needing to go to sleep at a good time, relationship between sleep late and being tired the next morning etc? Not mentioning daddy at all but uber reinforcing it for home so maybe she will start to ask daddy if she can go to sleep even a little earlier when with him?

heidiwine · 20/10/2013 07:48

I can't believe I'm reading this. Are you seriously going to make your DD completely over tired this weekend with the sole aim of getting your ex to see what it's like for you? Remember it's the end of the week and most 6yo are tired after a week of school even if they have regular early bed times.

I share the view of a previous poster: 10 is far too late for a 6yo to be going to bed on a school night (or any night). BUT when she's in your exes care you can't control what he does - if he told you what you should be doing in your time you'd be (quite rightly) pissed off.

RandomMess · 20/10/2013 08:26

Heidiwine the issue is that the op has to weigh up 2 to 3 weeks utter misery for her dd against another 5 years of her dd being overtired 24/7 - it is worth a try surely?

The ex is absolutely not putting his dd first, I don't think any social or cafcass worker or any other child professional endorse a 10pm bedtime for 3 school nights in a row as suitable for an under 12 year old - in fact it's actually neglectful in the timescales that the child has to have to attend school. 10pm even on weekend nights is too late for her. He doesn't believe it's a problem because he doesn't see the affects it has - hopefully when he does he will adjust the bed time.

purpleroses · 20/10/2013 09:32

I would do the best you can to let her catch up on sleep at the weekends. But do it by early nights rather than lie ins so that her body clock tells her it's bedtime by 8pm on a Sunday.

purpleroses · 20/10/2013 09:32

I would do the best you can to let her catch up on sleep at the weekends. But do it by early nights rather than lie ins so that her body clock tells her it's bedtime by 8pm on a Sunday.

purpleroses · 20/10/2013 09:32

I would do the best you can to let her catch up on sleep at the weekends. But do it by early nights rather than lie ins so that her body clock tells her it's bedtime by 8pm on a Sunday.

heidiwine · 20/10/2013 09:32

Given what the OP has said about him I very much doubt that he's going to be convinced he's right after one Monday morning struggle. My view - 10 is way way too late but it's a battle I wouldn't fight... There will be much bigger ones to come.

Original poster
Piaffle · 20/10/2013 10:40

Early nights don't seem to work, when she's with me if I put her to bed at 8 it's 9.15 before she's asleep.

Heidi, I would not be doing it just to show him what it's like, but so that he then brings her bedtime forward. Which I think he might do.

OP posts:
Original poster
Piaffle · 20/10/2013 10:41

I don't know of it will work, I just know that talking to him doesn't work.

OP posts:
aurynne · 20/10/2013 10:50

I think he is a parent as much as you are, and when your DD is with him, his rules count. As long as he is not breaking the law or being abusive to his DD, trying to control what time he puts her to bed is, in my opinion, as bad as if he tried to control what clothes you dress her in, or what activities you do with her while she is with you.

Frankly, if you admit you would "be mad" if he tried to control what you do in your own house, I can't see how you don't understand that when he has his daughter in his house, he is the parent. Don't get me started in "using" your DD to try to let him "see the light". Do you think your DD would die of lack of sleep if something happened to you and he was the sole parent? No, they would just find a way of managing that eventually worked. Let him parent his own way and make his own mistakes.

Moxiegirl · 20/10/2013 10:55

What time does she get up?
If he's a good dad in every other way then I would just try and let her catch up on sleep when she is with you.
As for the poster who mentioned cafcass/ss - not going to link it but there is a thread on here atm about very serious things happening on visitation with a child-might show how unlikely a late bedtime would be considered a major issue with them Sad

BasilBabyEater · 20/10/2013 11:18

Aurynne, what he is doing by not enabling his DD to have the sleep he needs, is neglect - see Twinkelstein's post for why sleep is so important.

What he's doing isn't parenting, it's babysitting.

If anyone thinks that regularly allowing their child to go to bed at 10PM on a school night is acceptable parenting, then their standards are too low.

"Let him make his own mistakes" - yeah, at his DD's expense.