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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Unfair contact?

155 replies

bubblybottom · 14/10/2013 23:19

I am very unhappy with the arrangements for contact with my boys(7&8) with their dad.
He works away from home(London, home is northwest)
He picks them up every Friday night and drops off on Sunday evening.
Why am I unhappy?? Because I hear about all the fantastic things they have done, been on a steam train, buried each other in sand on the beach, camped out in the garden etc etc. I never get to do any of that with them.
I cook, clean, sort out uniform, take to school, do homework, drop off and pick up from rugby, BB and karate and put to bed. And I love doing all that. It's my job.
I don't think its unreasonable tho to ask my ex for every other weekend. Or is it?
The boys I have to say are more than happy with the arrangement, however, it's been all that they have been used to for the last 2 yrs..
It's not my fault he works in london(he manages to get time off to to his house up as and when it suits)
I am nervous to ask him
A. He has the money for solicitors, I don't
B. He has no communication skills with me
What do I do?

OP posts:
Original poster
bubblybottom · 18/10/2013 12:48

Mums, how does it portray me as being in the wrong?

OP posts:
mumsforjustice · 18/10/2013 13:27

I don't know if you have been involved in court processes but it can get nasty and adverserial. I am not suggesting this is reality but they might seek to portray you as having a stopped unilaterally and without proper notice or sdiscussions an agreed and happy contact arrangement that were working very well for the children because you are seeking money. And use that email in court to support that. If ex is taking legal advice he will be advised to act quickly to prevent you setting a precedent and as you have acted unilaterally without allowing for discussion may use this to skip mediation and issue an immediate court summons.

Original poster
bubblybottom · 18/10/2013 14:07

I have texted him umpteen times to ask him to stump up half of the extra curricular stuff. No reply. He doesn't like to part with a penny. It takes him ages to reply about party invitations if the boys are going to be with him. I am left telling the mums of the kids whose parties they are that I can't give an answer cos I've not heard of him!!

OP posts:
Lweji · 18/10/2013 15:27

I think that you look carefully at the wording of the agreement.

ScaryFucker · 18/10/2013 16:24

Bubbly, MFJ has a very obvious agenda. Upsetting and destabilising you is part of that.

Of course seek legal advice but nothing you put in that email is going to get you into trouble.

It might be best to leave this thread now and start another one if need be.

MFJ,, seriously, what is your fucking problem ?

haverer · 18/10/2013 16:25

I don't think you look unreasonable in the email. You have said you expect him to agree they can stay with you EOW but that you can discuss the details - that doesn't sound unilateral to me. If you have posted the exact original wording of the agreement it was woolly and doesn't state every weekend from fri-sun. He hasn't stuck to the agreement in that he hasn't taken advantage of the holidays he was meant to spend with the boys.
Understandably, you may have a tendency to give into him. You could also benefit from a paper trail. It wouldn't be a conversation to have in front of the DC. For those reasons, don't do this verbally. Do it by email so you can have a good think and get advice before you respond. If it were me I'd get legal advice.
I wouldn't advise mediation. I think there's been a history of you avoiding conflict by giving in and such a power imbalance would make mediation unfair to you.

Original poster
bubblybottom · 18/10/2013 18:58

Well he just picked them up. Not a word. As usual. I was my usual chirpy self.

OP posts:
Cantabile · 18/10/2013 18:58

Unless it's shuttle mediation? That might be OK.

Lweji · 18/10/2013 20:07

MFJ,, seriously, what is your fucking problem?

Perhaps the word mums should be replaced on the nickname? Hmm

Just saying...

ScaryFucker · 18/10/2013 20:17

yep, FFJ might be more applicable, one might say

perfectstorm · 18/10/2013 21:49

mumsforjustice, you appear to have missed the extremely relevant facts that:

  1. the ex earns a thousand pounds a day

  2. the OP has meekly accepted just over half the mandated CSA minimum for years despite his exceedingly high earnings

  3. the Children Act allows for very high earners to be made to pay more than the CSA minimum

  4. the OP accepted a relatively tiny property settlement despite a decade of marriage and being primary carer/SAHM of two young children. She did that by agreement, never seeking/threatening court action to achieve a more equitable division.

None of those facts are remotely conducive to anyone successfully portraying her as money-grabbing. As any decent solicitor will tell her. It's a total non-starter.

The status quo is very important in child contact cases where the arrangement is seen as functional, but in this instance it can cogently be argued that the status quo is not working in their best interests - they are losing out on all weekend family time with their mother, her partner and the other children. There is a reason the convention splits weekends equally between the parents, regardless of weekday care. And the ex is not stepping up to care for their academic work and he is not caring for them in the holidays. He just wants the fun time.

As to the person saying she has fun time in the holidays - unless I am misunderstanding, he still has them for those weekends, too. He's saddling her with sole responsibility for all their out of school care, despite her working herself. Again: he's not stepping up to parent them in concert with her, he's having fun with them and then dumping them back on Mum to do all the actual child-rearing.

And what's the worst that could happen? He can't get more time, and he's already paying way less than the legally required minimum. Worst outcome is she gets them for some weekends but not the half she'd like (and in her OP, she was only asking for 1 in 4, so...), plus the CSA money which is legislatively set out and thus not subject to a court's jurisdiction. Which is better on both fronts than she has at the moment. So why the dark warnings to be careful? Careful of what? The continuation of the status quo? What exactly does she have to lose?

ScaryFucker · 18/10/2013 21:51

Dark warnings wrt "women, know your place" I reckon

Original poster
bubblybottom · 18/10/2013 21:53

please don't be nasty!! you are all trying to help me which is fantastic. you all have different takes on this which helps me enormously. MFJ has msgd me privately and been really lovely to me. she isn't a bad person. actually has a lot of relevant knowledge.
am really really grateful to all of you.
will se what happens over the weekend and let you know, but reckon I do need legal advise
many thanks ladies xxx

OP posts:
ScaryFucker · 18/10/2013 21:58

Good luck x

perfectstorm · 18/10/2013 22:14

mumsforjustice has a bit of a reputation on these boards, shall we say. Hence the irritation. It's not about this thread as such.

The problem with seeking legal advice is that you don't know how good it will be. If you do want to, I strongly suggest that you contact Women's Aid and ask them for someone local to you who is experienced in dealing with abusive exes, because what you describe having experienced in your marriage is financial abuse, and not all solicitors are that good, never mind experienced in more subtly abusive relationships. And I'd wait and see what he says before approaching a solicitor, because he may be advised that it just is not worth taking it to court. If he's that mean, he will be looking at spending thousands of pounds on it, and he can't win on the CSA aspect, plus is unlikely to keep the exact status quo with regard to weekends. Is he genuinely likely to want to spend that much money, when you're not actually seeking to deny him contact, just a more reasonable share of time?

You aren't trying to thwart contact. You just want a more healthy arrangement. Don't lose sight of that.

perfectstorm · 18/10/2013 22:24

Women's Aid.

Call them and have a chat? They can advise you in a trained way, and without expense.

Wheatus · 19/10/2013 23:10

I felt a bit bullied on this thread.

Unless you agree, your views are pointless.

Original poster
bubblybottom · 20/10/2013 02:10

Am sorry about that. I just wanted help. I got that. I think on here that there are so many people, often women who have been shit on badly.
I feel that I got the help I needed although am still a bit wobbly just hope that most people feel ok. Mumsnet is a very powerful source.

OP posts:
ScaryFucker · 20/10/2013 08:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Original poster
bubblybottom · 20/10/2013 10:12

Well, he still hasn't contacted me, by phone, in person or by email.
I rang to say goodnight to the boys last night, but he got them to answer(which he usually does)
He will be dropping them off at 5 pm tonight and probably won't say a word. Usually just sends them up the drive.
Don't really know what to do!!

OP posts:
Lweji · 20/10/2013 10:42

He knows there is an agreement in place and that you are likely to back off if he doesn't reply as usual. As he does with any other requests from you.

If the wording on your agreement is as you said, just "contact every weekend", then next weekend tell him when the children will be available for contact. Say, overnight on Saturday for example.

This type of agreement is awful in that it is wide open to interpretation and for dispute.

If it stipulates that he spends the two nights with the children, then give a deadline for him to answer or go to court.
Have you had legal advice over this yet?

YoureBeingADick · 20/10/2013 10:50

I agree with lewji. Good advice. Also agree you should get legal advice.

Original poster
bubblybottom · 20/10/2013 11:01

Was going to wait and see what he comes back with first, but I will do if I have to.

OP posts:
Original poster
bubblybottom · 31/10/2013 22:41

Ok. so I waited till tonight!!!
The boys came home from their dads not last sunday night, but the sunday before. DS2 said 'dad says we aren't seeing him next weekend. we are going to see you one weekend, him the next, you the next, him the next'
message sent thru a 7 and 8 yr old!!!!
So he didn't come for them last Friday night so I presumed that the boys were correct and that the above had been accepted
We are going to a wedding reception tomorrow night and as such I needed to know re pick up times.
I texted to ask arrangements. no reply
DS1 rang him(noticed his car outside his house so therefore not in London)
Have just had major row. basically he has said that there is no way he is going to agree to EOW. he kept repeating 'go to court, get a court order'
the exact wording of our 'separation agreement' is
'the children shall live with mum, and dad shall have contact each weekend as agreed'
where do I now stand??????

OP posts:
Jux · 31/10/2013 23:37

As I understand it, 'contact' can mean a phone call or overnights, and anything in between. What was 'agreed'? Anything in particular, or just that there would be contact each weekend?