Unfair contact?

[bubblybottom]

I am very unhappy with the arrangements for contact with my boys(7&8) with their dad.
He works away from home(London, home is northwest)
He picks them up every Friday night and drops off on Sunday evening.
Why am I unhappy?? Because I hear about all the fantastic things they have done, been on a steam train, buried each other in sand on the beach, camped out in the garden etc etc. I never get to do any of that with them.
I cook, clean, sort out uniform, take to school, do homework, drop off and pick up from rugby, BB and karate and put to bed. And I love doing all that. It's my job.
I don't think its unreasonable tho to ask my ex for every other weekend. Or is it?
The boys I have to say are more than happy with the arrangement, however, it's been all that they have been used to for the last 2 yrs..
It's not my fault he works in london(he manages to get time off to to his house up as and when it suits)
I am nervous to ask him
A. He has the money for solicitors, I don't
B. He has no communication skills with me
What do I do?

Hello bubbly

Here's my take on your proposed email: you are saying too much, giving too much away, giving him too many avenues to attack you/twist your words back at you, and asking when you should be telling.

I would suggest something like:

The current arrangement of being with you every weekend is not working for the boys. They are missing out on spending quality time at home at the weekends, they are missing out on activities like friends' parties and BB parades, plus their homework is sometimes not getting done.

I would like to suggest that we either alternate it - you have them every other weekend - or that they stay at home one weekend a month and part of the weekend once a month [or whatever arrangement you think is suitable].

I would be interested to hear your views and hope we can come to some agreement on this that suits the boys better. I am open to suggestions. I don’t want to get legal or involve the CSA. Whilst I can manage financially I don’t have money to line a solicitor’s pocket. [no need to mention this at this stage]

I am not sure what to suggest re holidays, expect that you shouldn't be asking him if you can come to a better arrangement, you need to tell him that you need a different arrangement.

And you don't have to manage on a day to day basis.
Bloody demand what is his rightful contribution to the children.
Perhaps enough that could help cover holiday child care, nice treats and so on.

Stand up to him, FGS.

I agree that the letter is incredibly apologetic - and why aren't you getting your children their money, or even contemplating doing so? The money is for your sons, and they're entitled to it - I can't believe tripling their child support couldn't also improve their lives, at least to some extent? So why are you so anti the idea, honestly? He can't challenge that as the CSA works via formula, and if you mention you're scared of using solicitors, given he's a high earner you're giving him a bloody great clue that he gets one to send you a stroppy letter reminding you of the agreement, and you fold.

“The children shall live with Mum, and Dad shall have contact each weekend as agreed and share holiday time.”

That doesn't say he gets them all weekend. It says "each weekend as agreed" which sounds like it means as agreed between the two of you. That implies flexibility to me - so why is it Fri to Sun evening every single week? Is there another wording elsewhere that sets out the days?

Have you had any sort of counselling for emotional abuse? You seem, I'm sorry to say, very frightened of him. You're promising not to go for the money you're entitled to to bolster a plea to see a bit more of your own kids. Why? Why not calmly point out the imbalance in quality time... and not mention money at all? You already have the upper hand on the money front, because you only need to make one phonecall to get what you're due! Why seek to placate him over that?

X-post with lots of people. Agree with all, and think Pony's wording is a big improvement.

Your letter sounds like an invitation to say no - like you expect him to say no. It's also about you rather than the boys, and any solicitor will tell him he's on a sticky wicket arguing their best interests, but a much stronger one if you're putting it as being about your needs, which your letter does for the most part. The courts don't give a toss about parental needs/wishes, but they care a lot about the kids. His arrangements are all about him, not them, and that's why they're bloody unreasonable.

NOT saying your feelings are in any way unfair/unreasonable or anything but normal, just that you always need to present it from the point of view of what is best for the children. Which starving them of child support, hoarding all the quality time, and offloading all the really hard work of parenting is not, as well as being seriously inequitable.

Right now you're doing almost all the work and spending almost all the money, while he swans in every weekend to play the Big I Am. That's not working for anyone but him, I don't expect.

In your position I would ask for every other weekend, or 2 weekends in 4. I wouldn't even suggest less than that to him or he'll grab it.

It would be sensible to ask for more to start with, and then if you concede something he'll feel like he's won ground.

I think you need to review how you see this OP, it's not about you asking permission to see your own children, it's about you telling him the current situation is not workable and has to change.

I have never heard of a father getting every weekends: he doesn't have the responsbility of joint custody whereby he has to manage them in the holidays too, but he gets all the quality time.

Dear Stingy Fuckwit

The current arrangements are not working for the boys. They miss out on parties, BB parade, socialising with their friends, and spending down time with me.

The arrangement I propose is that you take them for X weeks in the holidays, as per the original arrangement but which has never happened; and in return I will have them every other weekend.

We need to review financial arrangements also. At present, you are contributing £X which is approximately 1/3 of what the CSA would consider fair.

As we have a family occasion coming up on dd/mm, I propose that we start the new weekend arrangement then.

Yours

Meant to say, make up the family occasion/family outing, and put a date which is about a month away.

I like jux's version much more. But hasn't op already sent hers?

And I like ponys. But it doesn't use the word fuckwit which I think is entirely appropriate here.

Jux and Pony should set up a MN Fuckwit Ex Correspondence Course.

Probably worth checking the CSA calculator.

There's a cap of £2000 net a week, and at £800 a month he's paying somewhere near that unless contact is reduced from two nights a week.

It's not possible to get £2400 a month from the CSA, you'd have to go to court for that.

So he could come back and blow the facts out of the water.

Will reply in more detail in a bit.
Thanks tho!
He earns 1k a day

Hi
I would like some more weekend time with the boys.
I realise that the agreement between us does say,
“The children shall live with and shall have contact each weekend as agreed and share holiday time.”
However, as things stand at the moment I feel that I am doing all the heavy work (washing, ironing cooking etc.). I realise that like all, or at least most mothers, most of this is down to me and I am not complaining about it. We need to come to a better arrangement whereby I have the boys every other weekend.
School holidays will present a problem for some time to come. Like you I cannot take extended time off work. We need to come to some better arrangement than the ad hoc arrangement in place at the moment. There are about 12 weeks each year that need to be covered and the sharing is not really equal at present. My mum and dad help out but clearly I can’t ask them to cover for more outside my 6 week share, just as I would not expect your mum and dad to cover for me. I can, for instance, help you out by dropping the boys off at your mum’s for the day if you are not able to get time off work. This is to help you out not me.
I would be interested to hear your views and hope we can come to some agreement on this.

Is that better??

No. Not really. You're really scared of him aren't you?

This is the bit I particularly take issue with:

realise that like all, or at least most mothers, most of this is down to me and I am not complaining about it

The only bit of parenting you are uniquely equipped for you have done. Having a vagina doesn't make you better suited to operating a washing machine than him.

I was thinking more along these lines:

Hi
Despite our previous agreement, I have come to the conclusion that the boys will benefit from having frequent weekend time with me and their little sibling.
They are having hardly any fun and quality time with me, their own mother, so they need us to come to a better arrangement for them whereby they stay here at home every other weekend.
I'm sure they will miss you too, as you they. So, I strongly suggest that you do take advantage of the half of the holiday time they are entitled with you and that you haven't used in the last two years. Even if you have to pay for some child care then, they will benefit from having extended time, during the week with you.
I am open to discuss some details, but I expect that you will agree and for the new schedule to start next month for the benefit of the children.

By the way, the CSA recommended amount that you should contribute towards the boy's maintenance is xxxx. So your payments will need to be revised accordingly.

To make the case for a change in agreement, you can reinforce that he has not kept quite a lot of his part of the agreement, so it's badly in need of a revision.

I am not frightened of him. I just can't be arsed with all the shit that comes with the whole confrontation thing.
We split up because of his massive obsession with money. He lived in the Middle East for 5 months when the boys were 4&5. He skyped once a week. He sent me £400/ month.
We weren't allowed to read AND watch the tv at night. Should I say, if I was watching tv with the lamp next to me turned on, I would be heavily questioned as to the necessity of having the lamp on. Surely I would only need the lamp to read, not to watch the tv!
Everything was about making money. Not going anywhere. Everything was too expensive, not good value for money etc.
I just feel that he will be leaving all of his money to the boys anyway(albeit tied up in trust)
He will probably put it in a better high interest account than I ever would tbh.
When we split up, I took certain things from the house that I had previously. I didn't however take anything that wasn't necessary. I didn't want to leave big empty gaps in the house, as when the boys went back at weekends, I wanted them to see it as home, not somewhere I used to be and left empty(as I knew he wouldn't replace things)
In fact he still doesn't have a microwave. He told the boys that he hasn't got a microwave because 'your mum took it!'
I don't want him to have the opportunity to tell the boys that I bled him dry, or left him without.

I don't think your nice attitude will actually pay off. Not for you nor for the children.
You don't know he'll invest the money for them at all.
Or keep it for them as inheritance.

You do need better negotiating skills on this.

I am sorry love, but you are being absolutely mugged off by this man. When you were together he did it, and still you allow him to do so.

Please, at least take out the ingratiating "all mothers expect to do the shitwork part of parenting"

I think he has done an absolute number on you, to be honest. You're still viewing everything through a prism of how he will think, feel and react. Who gives an airborne fornication? What matters is that you support his relationship with the kids (increasing holidays and offering longer weekends when he has them enables him to see them as much, without adversely impacting on your own time with them) and your own relationship with them, too. His thoughts are his own business. Your kids need close and loving relationships with you both.

You barely see your own kids for any of the fun part of the week. The courts don't offer every other weekend or that plus more weekdays or 50/50 arbitrarily. They do it so both parents have the chance to nurture a decent relationship with their children. He's hogging the cream and leaving the skim milk, effectively.

Wheatus that cap is outdated. He should be paying £336 a week - just checked it on the CSA calculator - which is £1460 a month. Or, put another way, one and a half days of his monthly earnings. He's not "close to that" if he pays £800 a month, which is less than he earns in a day. I don't think £660 extra a month is nothing, and that's even after applying the CSA earnings cap! And if the Children Act (from memory?) were used in addition to the CSA, she might be able to get them more. He's a colossally high earner and his kids are getting peanuts, proportionately. And it's not as if he's in an income bracket where paying more sensible amounts of money would cause him hardship, either. He's just being tight.

OP, is he paying for school fees, and did you get a property settlement of any kind when you left? What sort of legal representation did you have, how independent was it, and did they talk about what you might be entitled to? I'm just scratching my head at how much of his own way this man has had and apparently will keep right on having. Why aren't you angrier? I'm honestly puzzled. What you describe in your marriage is financial abuse. You say you aren't scared of him, but you tolerated financial abuse, then left in a way that allowed him to continue controlling you, both in terms of your relatively awful financial provision, and the really inequitable contact arrangements. It's all on his terms. Why? Why talk about getting a tiny bit more of his earnings to care for his kids as "bleeding him dry" and don't you think that that is his mindset coming from your own lips, even after all this time?

I think you really, really do need to think about doing the Freedom Programme. You may be out, but you're still thinking along the lines he inculcated. You don't need to.

Ok. This is what I have just sent

Hi
Despite our previous agreement, I have come to the conclusion that the boys will benefit from having frequent weekend time with me and Lily.
They are having hardly any fun and quality time with us in our family home, so they need us to come to a better arrangement for them whereby they stay here at home every other weekend.
I'm sure they will miss you, as you they, so I strongly suggest that you take advantage of the half of the holiday time that they are entitled to with you, that you haven't used in the last two years. Even if you have to pay for some child care, then they will benefit from having extended time, during those weeks with you.
I am open to discuss some details, but I expect that you will agree and for the new schedule to start next month for the benefit of the children.

By the way, the CSA recommended amount that you should contribute towards the boy's maintenance is £336/week. So your payments will need to be revised accordingly. Obviously I wouldn't have to ask you for any extra curricular payments re rugby, karate and BB.

Regards

I strongly agree with other posters who say that you need to make it about the boys, not about what you want. You are also inviting him to say "no". Then what would you do? You say you are not scared of him, but you are scared to some extent of his reaction and want to pander to him. It won't help in the long run. Have you asked the boys what they would like? As well as telling them that YOU want more time with them. (At the moment they may assume you're happy for them to leave the house every weekend)

I would send something like...

*I'm writing to address our current arrangements which are not working. The boys and I would like more weekend time. As we have agreed that “The children shall live with and shall have contact each weekend as agreed and share holiday time.” I propose that they spend alternate weekends with me, and skype you on these weekends. Holidays can be split equally as agreed."

I suggest we start on such and such a date. If you have a problem with this then I am willing to try mediation, which I can arrange.

Whatever you do, don't start mentioning IN WRITING your problems with childcare, as it sounds like you want him to have the boys in order to do you a favour in the holidays, rather than for their benefit. This would really go against you if it ever did go to court.

I think in order to change things, you will have to deal with the fallout and his possibly hostile reaction. But it will be worth it in the long run.