Suspicious behaviour - not sure what to do, feeling sick

[abneysporridge]

Have come here to reach out as I really don't think I can tell anyone my suspicions in real life. Have been with dh for 13 years - 6 married - and have 3 ds's age 4, 3 and 7 mths - so life is pretty mad as u can guess! For a while now dh's behaviour has been really strange and at first I thought it was just stress from work combined with the mentalness of home life, but alarm bells rang when we were at a friends party about 3 weeks ago and he got really shit-faced and was great fun with everyone else but really confrontational with me - accusing me of eyeing up 'that guy' over there and how I'm not interested in him any more. It really blindsided me - we've never rowed or broken up, always been a good team, it was just so out of character. So I started noticing everything at that point - how disengaged he was with the kids, and my daily chatter about them, his over- zealous personal grooming and my god the diet he's on is just insane - it's working he's lost loads of weight - but he's starving himself, and mainly how he never NEVER let's his mobile out of his sight.
Recently I got him a new contract under my account as we can get a discount - his old phone smashed and we did all this quickly before he really had time to think about it - which allows me to look at the itemised bills online (I don't think he knows I can do this) and there were hundreds of texts and short calls to this one number - sometimes at odd hours - which I knew to be his female colleague. When he was in the shower one morning (he'd brought the phone into the bathroom) I checked his messages to see what on earth he's been chatting to her about and he'd deleted them all. Which is very suspicious I think. Honestly I don't know what to do with all this - I don't even know if its really an affair so if I start accusing him it could be a disaster and I don't want to tell any family or friends in case they hate him and it will never be the same again. I feel nervous all the time like my ears are ringing and I'm drowning , but I've got to try and be as normal as poss for the sake of the kids. Admittedly I've been distant and putting him way down the priority list for years, so maybe this was inevitable, I just never thought he was the type of guy capable of doing this. I hate feeling like my world is on shakey foundations, I work so bloody hard to give our kids a good life, which means putting my needs absolute last, I don't get why he can't do the same - maybe men just can't, selfish creatures that they are.
Sorry for sounding off in an essay basically! I just don't know what my next move should be - this past week I've been really positive and kind to him in the hopes he can see he has all he needs at home, but I don't feel connected to him at all anymore - like maybe he's got one foot out the door. So depressing. I always thought we were solid

How are you today op, it's such a shit feeling, isn't it?

I wouldn't take his phone. I would make a note of her number and tell him to tell me everything at a time when you can talk uninterrupted. Immediately after that, depending on what he said, I'd ring her. Sexual or emotional, it does sound like an affair.

good luck

Just say "I know, so start talking or you're out on your ear"
Then let him fill the silence.
When you have some answers (rxpect the bare minimum at this stage) then ask him to leave whilst you decide what to do.
I know it's terrifying, but the shaky, adrenaline fuelled limbo you are in now will destroy you if you delay bringing this to a head.
I've been there, unfortunately.

He is having an affair! Sorry but every box is ticked and why delete all those messages?

I can understand why you feel you need concrete proof.

He might have a code on his phone now anyway.

My thinking is you know deep down what is going on so even if you could, would you want to fill your head with the pain of what the messages contain?

My H was suddenly very secretive with his phone, there was no way I would have been able to see what was on there as he'd added a password. I did however find a diary where he wrote down what was going on, he'd bought one for his OW too and probably saw it as an old fashioned, romantic thing to do. What I read is still haunting me and it hurts so much.

Confront him, he'll probably deny it and I bet turn it round to you and your insecurities but we know our husbands and are very rarely wrong with our suspicions.

It does sound like he is definitely having an affair. How heart wrenching for you. :(

I think you definitely need to see some texts. You need that irrefutable proof or he will deny and mess with your head forever.

Is it an iphone? You should be able to retrieve old texts on those.

Hope you are OK op, didn't want to just read and run. When it was me I texted her number with a message saying ""this is xxs new mobile number and I waited to see what came back. You have to be really sure that you really want to know. Sending you hugs. X

Yes, abneysporridge you could always text her saying it's your husband from his new number. Hope you are ok.

Or abneys, you can call her if you like. I wouldn't leave a message if I were you but if you actually talk to her and sound reasonable she might tell you quite a lot. It varies hugely but some OWs are tormented by guilt or unhappy in their situation and would welcome an excuse to lay things bare with the wife.

"really really frustrated that after everything I do for him and the boys he still wants more. I don't have the energy or the brainpower frankly to remember to bolster his self-esteem, maybe if he showed some gratitude now and then for all the daily drudgery I go through I might feel more inclined"

yes, yes fucking YES!!!!!!! I totally agree with you. How about appreciating the effing hard work you put in with kids and house etc before expecting you to worship at the feet of the Rock God. Grrrr...... FWIW I spent a while abasing myself after I found out about H's affair ..'Oh I didn't love him enough, I didn't tell him how amazing he was, I didn't want to have sex every night after working all day, cleaning the house,walking the dog, cooking a meal, preparing lunchboxes....mea culpa. I deserved all this pain. I am worthless!' Until I slapped myself (I wanted to slap him but I refrained) and realised that it takes too to damage a marriage and the one who always takes up the slack and puts everyone first is NOT the main culprit. Remember that.

If you want my advice, and you don't want to divorce immediately, sit him down and say 'OK, so you are having an affair (he is whether they have had sex or not is totally irrelevant). You appear to have checked out of any real relationship with me and our children. Where do we go from here? No lies, no minimising, assume I know everything.'

That jump ahead uber honesty and practicality orm suggests is pretty impressive and useful, OP. And she knows what she's talking about.

It's a truism often bandied about in these parts that affairs are most often had by those giving the LEAST to the relationship (because you value something less the less you invest in it and are more likely to be a taker anyway). It is RARELY true that the person you has been cheated on should be giving MORE that they were before, in fact they should pull back to make things more equal and expect the cheater to step up. This sometimes fails because the cheater feels they have another option available to them so why should they return to a staler relationship where they are required to put in more effort?

The worst thing is for the betrayed to try and make the cheater stay by upping their contribution, it worsens all the problems that were there already. The horrible truth is that if the cheater can't or won't come back with more investment, they should go, because they will quickly discover that they are a taker in every other relationship too. And the same thing will happen or OW will leave once she realises.

Thanks all for continuing to lend your support
I've been acting as nonchalant and non-suspicious as poss and trying to steal a look at the all-powerful mobile phone when I get a chance, but I mean he is just GLUED to it, and I think he deletes everything from her before he goes to sleep as I have snuck a look when he's snoring away (phone is right next to his face like that 3-headed guard dog in Harry potter), to no avail. I know some people have advised me to just confront him without seeing the proof, but I really need it or he will deny til he's blue in the face and I can't leave him any plausible deniability if I'm going to blow this wide open - the logistical and emotional ramifications are too huge.
Have been picturing myself as a single mum and it makes me feel shakey and sad, but as someone said earlier is that any worse than living with one-way street marriage?? I just don't know what to think any more.

You poor thing, well done for holding it together. If he is so thorough then I guess you conclude two things. 1. He has something he is very worried about you discovering and 2. He is less likely to make a slip up which will reveal things for you.

No one is that glued to their phone who is not hiding something. We are all a bit addicted but not deleting and all that stuff.

Faced with this, you either carry on living in this horrible world of surveillance and suspicion, confront him with just what you know so far and try and stay strong (what do you fear will happen here, out of interest?) or you do something much more extreme like swap the numbers, install a key logger on his computer, or employ a private investigator.

What do you think?

Let me get this straight, when you talk about ramifications of confronting him without evidence, what exactly are you afraid of? What is 'too huge?'

Pick up a cheap payg sim from the supermarket. Shove it in your phone and send her a text "disaster! Had to get new sim" or something. Then see what comes back. Then no one will recognise your number.

I suspect anyone engaged in an affair will be suspicious of strange numbers from the off.

The other thing to consider is that there's little chance she will miraculously find a text that tells her EVERYTHING about what's going on anyway. It mught be sexual but then he will say it is just sexting, not physical. It might be loving but then he will just say she is obsessed with him but he has never felt the same. What exactly could you find anyway, OP that is indisputable and how likely do you think it is that you would?

What about going swimming? He can't have his phone in the pool.

Tessa the ramifications are purely that he is so ingrained in my family i need to be really sure of the grounds on which I essentially cut his ties with them - I mentioned he was in a band with my dad and sisters, they are performing together at a memorial concert for my dad next month, dh is also running the technical side of it, my sister is getting married next year - dh is a groomsman, and of course, my children would be suddenly faced with a massive and upsetting change. I just feel I have so much to lose I need everyone to know I'm not going mad and paranoid! Also need to know that for myself. I can cope with limbo - it's not the most healthy scenario sure - but at least were all still alive.

If you do need proof, can you ask your sisters to look at his phone when he's with them? He'd be less likely to be so guarded with it around others. Do you know if he's got a code on it?

My only worry is that you will hurt even more if/when you do get proof. I cannot get the diary entries my H made about his OW out of my head.

These things come out in the end, it took me 2 months to find out and that was 2 months of turmoil so I understand how you're feeling.

Has he changed the way he is with you at all?

Okay, abney, a few things.

You're getting ahead of the curve here.

You're making a slightly odd assumption. That confronting him about your valid suspicions without indisputable evidence will result in ties being cut between him and your family. Walk me through that. Also, that it would result in your children being faced with a massive and upsetting change. There is no logic to this. We are talking at the moment about a conversation. You are assuming that the outcome of that conversation would be your DH having ties cut with your whole family and your children being damaged. Why?

Maybe you think you can cope with limbo. This isn't limbo. This is suspicion and denial and an affair. Limbo would be if you confronted him and asked what was going on and he lied about it and then carried on having the affair anyway, with you suspecting that, him suspecting you knew, but choosing not to do anything and both waiting for the other to make a move. (see Update on EA thread). At the moment he doesn't know what you know and you don't know what he knows. This is denial and a secret. You can choose to support the keeping of that secret or not but that's not limbo. Limbo is incredibly damaging, probably the most damaging phase of all, and is what everyone warns about which is why people are suggesting you think ahead.

Either you fear that he will outright deny everything and lie to you and make you feel crazy but carry on ostensibly as normal (which is what you seem to fear in your earlier post) OR you fear that somehow the conversation will trigger the end of your relationship, through a route I'm not sure of yet, either caused by you leaving or him saying he's leaving. Which is it? And why?

Aw abney, relationships are so difficult. It's very easy to post online a clear rational response. Throw in all the little twists, subtle details, family vulnerabilities and entwined lives and its nowhere near as easy as it sounds

Take your time but don't brush aside and don't forget the stress this is causing you

I normally post a non compromising LTB but I'm sensing that there might be a chance he has made a whopping great mistake and you could come back from it. But he does need to know you know about it and what hurt he has caused

I'm not trying to get you to confront him necessarily but I'm not sure you've got clear in your head what the step by step reality of this is. If you are so afraid of the family events you've got coming up being ruined, why isn't he?

What, for example, could you find that would mean you would feel okay confronting him? (I really understand by the way. I say my BF kissing someone else once and he STILL tried to insist I hadn't.)

What, for example, could you find that would mean you would not want to stay in the relationship? If the answer to either of these is 'nothing' then ask yourself why you are even bothering to look. Also ask yourself why living in an environment where he is having an affair and thinks you don't know is better than one where he is having an affair but knows you know. If the answer is just 'he will cover his tracks better' think hard about what that means about him and how he treats you.

I understand you just want to get through the family stuff, especially the concert. At the risk of sounding cold, there is never a good time. There is always a child starting school, or finishing school, or someone getting married or a new house or a new job or a bereavement. There is always life. But he is the one sabotaging that, not you. And I feel so sad that you are the one feeling guilty and anxious and desperate to hold things together when you have done nothing wrong and he gets to swan into work with his young, adoring lover, then come home to a family and quietly eroding wife.

So sorry you're having a rubbish time OP.

I think you will drive yourself crazy until you find out what's going on. I wouldn't be good at the sneaky part tbh.

If he is that close to your family maybe you need to explain your suspicions to him and tell him that, even if they're just suspicions, he is behaving in a way that encourages them. Tell him that, if he has any respect for his family (you and DC) and yours he will explain the things that are making you suspicious. It's not a courtroom, it's a marriage you don't need absolute proof... You need to try to re-open communication channels.

If you don't like this approach though, just swap numbers as suggested above and find out once and for all... Good luck.

Urgh just lost a whole massive post in response, can't remember it all and don't have the energy to try frankly but in a nutshell, tessa, I love u, I feel u are the part of my brain I should be listening to, because I know what I have to do, I'm just terribly afraid to do it. I feel like the very foundations of my life are coming apart and that maybe I never really knew the man I swore to be with til death parts us, and I just hope he is feeling even the smallest part the same way or we really are doomed.