Suspicious behaviour - not sure what to do, feeling sick

[abneysporridge]

Have come here to reach out as I really don't think I can tell anyone my suspicions in real life. Have been with dh for 13 years - 6 married - and have 3 ds's age 4, 3 and 7 mths - so life is pretty mad as u can guess! For a while now dh's behaviour has been really strange and at first I thought it was just stress from work combined with the mentalness of home life, but alarm bells rang when we were at a friends party about 3 weeks ago and he got really shit-faced and was great fun with everyone else but really confrontational with me - accusing me of eyeing up 'that guy' over there and how I'm not interested in him any more. It really blindsided me - we've never rowed or broken up, always been a good team, it was just so out of character. So I started noticing everything at that point - how disengaged he was with the kids, and my daily chatter about them, his over- zealous personal grooming and my god the diet he's on is just insane - it's working he's lost loads of weight - but he's starving himself, and mainly how he never NEVER let's his mobile out of his sight.
Recently I got him a new contract under my account as we can get a discount - his old phone smashed and we did all this quickly before he really had time to think about it - which allows me to look at the itemised bills online (I don't think he knows I can do this) and there were hundreds of texts and short calls to this one number - sometimes at odd hours - which I knew to be his female colleague. When he was in the shower one morning (he'd brought the phone into the bathroom) I checked his messages to see what on earth he's been chatting to her about and he'd deleted them all. Which is very suspicious I think. Honestly I don't know what to do with all this - I don't even know if its really an affair so if I start accusing him it could be a disaster and I don't want to tell any family or friends in case they hate him and it will never be the same again. I feel nervous all the time like my ears are ringing and I'm drowning , but I've got to try and be as normal as poss for the sake of the kids. Admittedly I've been distant and putting him way down the priority list for years, so maybe this was inevitable, I just never thought he was the type of guy capable of doing this. I hate feeling like my world is on shakey foundations, I work so bloody hard to give our kids a good life, which means putting my needs absolute last, I don't get why he can't do the same - maybe men just can't, selfish creatures that they are.
Sorry for sounding off in an essay basically! I just don't know what my next move should be - this past week I've been really positive and kind to him in the hopes he can see he has all he needs at home, but I don't feel connected to him at all anymore - like maybe he's got one foot out the door. So depressing. I always thought we were solid

Can't rock the boat unless you can convince him?

I had solid proof after 5 years of this sort of cloak and dagger shit, and I can tell you convincing isn't the issue.

He knows he is wrong but he thinks wrong doesn't matter - he thinks being caught out matters.

He- and you- agree that proof is the key currency. It's just that you havnt verbalised it to each other. I've been there too- but is is not a solid viewpoint if you think about it.

If I were you now, with benefit of hindsight, I would give yourself a week at most to find it and then tell him you know anyway. Then keep saying it, plus what the consequences will be.

'I've been thinking alot about the psyche of men and their egos, and how they just completely lack the patience to wait for better, easier days' - I think you may be doing down men then - I don't think it applies to all.

Your posts are very sad as you seem to have really low expectations of him. I agree, if you want proof try and swap the numbers. Otherwise just ask for his phone and judge his reaction.

I managed to sneak a look at his phone last night and once again he'd deleted all her texts - it is a smartphone so he can choose 'delete conversation' and it deletes all his sent ones too. I just feel I need to see one of these 'conversations' before I act - perhaps to help me believe this is really happening more than anything. Still part of me thinks 'no he couldn't possibly have an affair he loves me too much.' Denial, I know, but I can't help cling to it because I fear for the future.

Understandable abney. I do think you need to pick a date when even without proof you will sit down and discuss. What Francesca said about It really is enough... just to say I think... The evidence is for you not him and I get you need to get your head around that.

However if he's so careful there is no evidence where does that leave you. Try and analyse if you can stay as things are forever. No? Well then a serious conversation ensues.

You poor thing. I agree with others you do not need proof- you just need the strength to front this out.

He is behaving appallingly.

While you are in this waiting stage, are you able to plan what you want to do when it comes out - and it will do...

Does he delete all his messages, or just the ones from her?

If you really want that proof just do as suggested, put your number under her name. Sit back and wait for the messages to come flooding in.

Done and dusted.

Then confront him.

She said "delete the conversation," so that means both sets of messages, hers and his.

I guess I get complacent about DH because after years together and raising a family and having one another's back when things get tough, you trust each other.
We happen to be chalk and cheese about lots of things but in a relationship you think you know pretty much how your partner ticks.

So now this has come out of left field it's a horrible wake up call but keep in mind, he has always had you by his side to air any perceived slights or neglect. No need for furtive texting, no sneaky communication, no delete option required. He may bluster about you being there in body but not in spirit. Not listening, not inviting comment cor dedicating time. Well, now he's quits. Preoccupied by her. Slimmer, for her. Tuned into whatever she sends.

Btw he may think she 'gets' him, really understands or appreciates him. Oh grow up. What stopped him noticing all the effort you make that he takes for granted? Responsibility, little children, a degree of self sacrifice, major bereavement, they're not untypical life events. It's what people sign up for in a long partnership.

Did you have a favourite song played at your wedding, do you share a private song? I'd stick that on once the DCs are tucked up in bed then tell him you have a fair idea what's been happening, now what's going on in his head? Because you're entitled to know.

Did you manage to change the number abney.

I thought that my XH was the last person in the world to have an affair. When he walked out, I still didn't think that there might be another woman, although I did ask him and he said no. I had this horrible feeling in my gut because I had seen just 1 email to OW, which he was making flattering comments to her, but as she was married to his mate, I still couldnt believe it.

When I checked his mobile bills and found thousands of texts to OW, I managed to sneak a look at his phone, but every single one was deleted.

It then came to mind, how for the past 6 weeks, since he came back, he was:

taking his phone everywhere, to the bathroom, to the utility room, to the car to get something
staying up later than me, whereas he had always gone to bed earlier or at the same time
keeping the phone in his door pocket instead of the middle of the car
keeping it on silent all the time
sleeping with it by his side, charging it by his side instead of overnight in the kitchen

He also set up a secret email address to contact her on. He suggested songs for her to listen to.

Because I trusted him implicitly and because he used the phone a lot for work, I hadn't picked up on any of these things, until he left. There is none so blind as those who cannot see......

I know how hard it is to believe that your partner/husband could do this to you and it took MN to make me see that XH and OW were not just friends, that it was out of order to invest your time and energy in somebody that is not your partner and meanwhile transferring all the loving feelings to that person too.

You need to think about what the outcome will be here, what you want to do once you confront him and he either admits or denies it. Being prepared is the best form of defence.......

I was the same as you OP, I had to see at least one msg from my DH incriminating himself before I believed it as I couldn't believe he do it less than 6 months after we'd got married. It took me a week of constant snooping to find it. I saw a few from her, but he could have bluffed his way out with a 'just friends' comment. He was unbelievably good at covering his tracks. But he did forget to delete one he'd sent just before he went to bed which incriminated himself and left no wiggle room. I saw it because I checked his phone, when he got up for the loo at 5am and his phone was left by the bed.

I too would never have believed he was capable of such deceit and how clever he was.

Don't dismiss his behaviour and trust your gut OP

I would keep getting hold of his phone and checking it. He'll slip up eventually.

You could try slipping it out of his bag or pocket just before he goes out the door to work. See if he gets a text. Of course deny all knowledge and say he must have left it.

Xollob - I had a snoop yesterday while he was in the shower and his phone was charging (he had turned it off), I can't change the numbers I don't think because he has deleted all previous conversations with her so would therefore hit 'compose new message' which in turn displays her name and the number, and I'm sure he would recognise mine. If I get desperate, ill just do it and hope he doesn't notice the different number.
Been thinking about how this would affect the extended family if it all came out, I don't think any of my family would forgive him - it would certainly ruin his relationship with my mum and sisters (and we are all really close) , which is especially sad as he was in a band with my dad and sisters, obviously that ended when my dad died.
I've asked my mum if she could poss babysit one night so that I can go out with dh and his colleagues - obviously I haven't told her of my suspicions - and she said of course she would. So now to float the idea with dh and gauge his reaction ...

I don't know much about smartphones because I prefer the old kind, but whenever I've spoken to people about their affairs, there are sadly a few 'tricks of the trade' and habits that they all seemed to adopt. I've seen the same stories told on MNet.

They saved photos in their gallery or in a separate folder. You can imagine the sort of photos saved, but they usually had at least one of a face.

They saved the number of their squeeze under another name. Usually a common man's name if it was a woman, or vice versa.

They saved particularly memorable texts or conversations, in a separate folder; usually something innocuous like 'templates' or somesuch.

Most cleared their logs, but one woman got caught out when she forgot to do that, having religiously deleted texts.

Obviously as you can see his bills you know he's deleting texts or calls already made so to my mind you've got more than enough proof and it seems significant to me that you think he'd lie and force you to back down even in the face of that overwhelming evidence.

But if you're determined you need concrete proof that no-one can wriggle out of, you probably need a good half hour with that phone to search for all the hiding places. Can you get it and then lock yourself in the loo, on a day when he's able to watch the kids because you've got an upset tummy and need to be on the loo for a long time?

By the way, don't go thinking that having an affair necessarily means he doesn't love you, or that he 'loves you too much' to have one.

It probably means he doesn't love you how you deserve to be loved, but having an affair doesn't necessarily point to a true loss of feeling for or commitment to a partner. Many affairs are mindnumbingly banal in terms of motive. It's often just a combination of opportunity and low risk of being caught.

When you say it would ruin his relationship with family, it suggests that it wouldn't ruin his relationship with you...

Are you hoping you'll stick together through this? If so, I would still recommend the typical mumsnet line of dealing with a partner having an affair - make him leave. As is always said: only when he experiences the possible loss of you, will he wake up to what he is doing...

Sorry if that's a bit premature...

What FrancescaBell said. you are not looking for proof anymore. you are now probably looking for why and this is more about you than a need to prove he is cheating.

There is no why - "opportunity and low risk" - because he can.

This is the hardest bit I'm afraid OP.
the lying phase, the stage where you don't know if anything that has happened before was true, whether his feelings were true, whether that smile, that happy moment - basically all of it was true.
This is the feeling of betrayal. next comes gaslighting, minimising, and smugness and croc tires - its too soon for him to really feel it.

I think the effort now needs to go into what you do for yourself to recover, how you move on in your own development. You now have a leg you can't put any weight on - so now time to develop the skills to stand on your own (with or without him).

and if it turns out to be nothing, then you will only have gained a stronger more independent you.

I think it's sad and telling that we're all, including the OP, predicting actions and reactions far down the line, and almost making decisions about the relationship before she's even confronted him.

It may be that the marriage isn't even salvageable. It may be that he is desperately in love with this OW and will leave of his own accord. It may be he lies and lies and lies and gaslights and attacks the OP. The more you fantasise about the future, positively or negatively, OP, the more it crystallises as the only path in your mind. It feels like without even knowing the extent of the affair, the extent of his feelings, or the way in which he reacts to being confronted, the feelings of extended family etc can kind of wait and not determine what you feel and do, OP.

I agree in part but I do think the OP needs to think through what she will do when she's got proof.

If the relationship ends, either because he wants it to or the OP knows she can't forgive infidelity (and there's no reason why she should) then the OP needs to get herself to a position of strength where she knows she can cope as a lone parent.

There are some terrible potential outcomes here if the OP doesn't do that sort of preparation. She could put her head in the sand and live a miserable life, she could believe lies, she could forgive prematurely and set herself up for a lifetime of further cheating and selfishness. She could wait until he leaves her suddenly when she has no safety net in place.

I agree the family stuff is irrelevant. The important work is on her own boundaries and practical stuff like finances and housing.

Absolutely, I agree, I just worry that OP is, understandably already putting reasons and justifications in place to stay in the relationship whatever. And although I can see how scary it is to imagine other scenarios, it feels like she is doing this with an assumption about what the affair is, her relationship is and what the consequences will be. In truth, OP, think about what you will do if he lies to you on confrontation, or if he gets aggressive with you, or if he says he doesn't love you anymore. Where is your boundary for what is and is not acceptable? Are you going to stay with someone who is in love with someone else and who refuses to stop seeing her, for example? All because you don't want your family to dislike him? Of course not.

I understand how scary it is to genuinely consider things like separation or even divorce. But, OP, if you go into any of this assured that there is only one outcome you will really countenance, then you may as well not go into it at all, and STFU and resolve to stay your whole life as one of those tragic women who knows their husband is on the cheat but always has hands over ears apart from when she's pouring herself drink.

The only other thing I could suggest, OP, is that if he should leave his phone on the side, even for a minute or two, just swipe it and hide it. Put it somewhere he will never think of looking such as inside an old cereal box (or tampon box!)

Whilst he is going mad looking for it, just play dumb. Obviously you can't take it if he put on charge, but if he just put it down on the table to carry shopping in, or something.

Then, when he gives up looking and goes out, you can wait and see if she texts him. Also, you would have more time to fiddle with it and see if you can retrieve deleted messages.

I was going to say that would be too difficult - but with three small children around its quite plausible. Plus you would get to witness his panic :(

I still think you could tell him you have absolute evidence and that he needs to come clean.

Or you could 'nip to the shop' with his phone in your pocket...

I'd 'turn all ringers/ vibrate off and ' hide' his phone and make it go missing ( in your handbag) and watch as he goes mental looking for it and once you've received and nosied at all texts , return it somewhere it could have been lost.