Suspicious behaviour - not sure what to do, feeling sick

[abneysporridge]

Have come here to reach out as I really don't think I can tell anyone my suspicions in real life. Have been with dh for 13 years - 6 married - and have 3 ds's age 4, 3 and 7 mths - so life is pretty mad as u can guess! For a while now dh's behaviour has been really strange and at first I thought it was just stress from work combined with the mentalness of home life, but alarm bells rang when we were at a friends party about 3 weeks ago and he got really shit-faced and was great fun with everyone else but really confrontational with me - accusing me of eyeing up 'that guy' over there and how I'm not interested in him any more. It really blindsided me - we've never rowed or broken up, always been a good team, it was just so out of character. So I started noticing everything at that point - how disengaged he was with the kids, and my daily chatter about them, his over- zealous personal grooming and my god the diet he's on is just insane - it's working he's lost loads of weight - but he's starving himself, and mainly how he never NEVER let's his mobile out of his sight.
Recently I got him a new contract under my account as we can get a discount - his old phone smashed and we did all this quickly before he really had time to think about it - which allows me to look at the itemised bills online (I don't think he knows I can do this) and there were hundreds of texts and short calls to this one number - sometimes at odd hours - which I knew to be his female colleague. When he was in the shower one morning (he'd brought the phone into the bathroom) I checked his messages to see what on earth he's been chatting to her about and he'd deleted them all. Which is very suspicious I think. Honestly I don't know what to do with all this - I don't even know if its really an affair so if I start accusing him it could be a disaster and I don't want to tell any family or friends in case they hate him and it will never be the same again. I feel nervous all the time like my ears are ringing and I'm drowning , but I've got to try and be as normal as poss for the sake of the kids. Admittedly I've been distant and putting him way down the priority list for years, so maybe this was inevitable, I just never thought he was the type of guy capable of doing this. I hate feeling like my world is on shakey foundations, I work so bloody hard to give our kids a good life, which means putting my needs absolute last, I don't get why he can't do the same - maybe men just can't, selfish creatures that they are.
Sorry for sounding off in an essay basically! I just don't know what my next move should be - this past week I've been really positive and kind to him in the hopes he can see he has all he needs at home, but I don't feel connected to him at all anymore - like maybe he's got one foot out the door. So depressing. I always thought we were solid

a "quietly eroding wife", can there be a sadder phrase on MN this evening ?

don't be that woman, love

no man is worth that, not ever

Aww don't worry, abneys, I get it. It's horrible.

My one tip would be, find a bottom line. It probably won't happen bit sit down and honestly think to yourself what is your bottom line, what can't you cope with or put up with. Sex? Them being in love? Him saying he doesn't think he's in love with you anymore? Think very hard and write it down for yourself. Because you need something to believe in.

You do know the man. He was never just defined by his love for you.

There's a version of him who is relieved to be able to talk to you again. But there's also a much bigger, more frightened part that is going to freak out and lie and deny. It's okay. It doesn't mean you're mad.

Try and not let your brain go to all the romantic, mushy memories and wedding and vow stuff. I know it's hard but this is a very practical, present tense thing. Try to not let fear drag you towards sentimentality. He HAS to see you as an adult to be reckoned with. The stronger and more impressive you are (and calm if you can manage it) the more he is going to be floored and impressed with you. You are the one in control here. You already have a great deal of information, much of it requiring explanation. You are not the one on trial. This cannot just be swept under the carpet. Don't you yearn to have an honest conversation with him? Even just down the line rather than living this fearful lie? You'll be okay, abbey. Think about how you would advice a friend who came to you with all this. think about what yourself as a younger woman would have said to you.

Spot on AF

Lovely post tessa6

Knowing you are living a life that is below your bottom line just for what it should feel like is very depressing.

I know that

a "quietly eroding wife"

An accurate description

I stayed (DD1 was 5yrs old) because:
DD had just started school
We might be able to fix it
He was depressed when it happened
Perhaps I'd neglected him because I was busy being a full time employee and mum
My sister was dying
My parents were ill
He was ill
He'd lost his job
I was pregnant
The baby was young
Because of the children
GCSES
A LEVELS
Uni application
Another child's GCSES...

By this time same daughter was 19 and I was very eroded.

We split during A levels and first year of uni for eldest. The most unscathed was the 7 yr old. There really is never a good time to do it. (But I'm having a good time now.) I can't say that divorce is great but those 14 years were awful. I grieve for my lost 14 yrs of living.

Don't be like me

Great posts as ever, tessa, and tireddog - how sad.

Abney - you have a right to know what the hell is going on in your marriage. Sit down and talk - forget finding 'evidence' . Ask him. He may shout and accuse you; he may whimper and whine. Eventually it will come out.

I feel for you having gone through exactly the same scenario. I needed to discover everything before I could come to terms with his betrayal. Like you, I blamed myself for letting it happen. I blamed myself for becoming a 'boring' mum, always too busy to spend time on my own grooming. Then I realised that I was doing the most important job of my life in turning out decent, happy, well-fed children whilst holding down a full-time job. I wasn't to blame for his disinterest in the life we had chosen. He was and still is a selfish, superficial sociopath and I'm doing brilliantly by myself. Sometimes we hang on to broken fragments of the life we hoped for. To fix something, you both have to try. Talk to your husband or call the person you think is spending too much time texting him. The third part of the triangle seems to love the drama. Not knowing is consuming, it takes over. The truth will out, I hope you find some answers and ultimately some peace soon x

I was watching one of those trashy late-night tv programmes the other day - it was all about people who suspected their other halves were cheating. A detective agency went out and carried out covert filming, then when the cheating was proved took the innocent partner for a confrontation with the cheating couple.

It's incredible - the cheaters caught red-handed out on a date and they're shouting 'You're stupid - you've got it all wrong - nothing's happening!'

Gosh forty that sounds horrible - I hate airing dirty laundry in public at the best of times!
Tiredog - that was so illustrative and so sad, I'm glad your in a better zone now.
Brokenpicker - I love your line that it wasn't your fault he's lost interest in the life u both chose - that's exactly how I feel. Yes it's boring and filled with duty and hard graft but its also so rewarding, and its our chance to create really wonderful humans we can be proud of...I just cant believe he would jeopardise all that for a bloody ego boost.
And I just know he will deny everything and make me feel like I'm going crazy unless I can say I've seen proof with my own eyes. I don't want him to be able to continue this while being even more careful because then ill be even more trapped in an impossible situation.

Can you wait till he's halfway through an evening of being glued to his phone, and then suddenly say calmly and quietly,

'I need you to give me your phone right now, without deleting anything please' and hold out your hand?

I agree with you that you do need the proof. I think you should take his phone at night and hide it (with ringer switched off). He'll go nuts looking for it but just be concerned, help him look down the back of the bed etc. Do it on a Saturday so he can't get to this colleague to warn her. Wait to see if she makes contact.

Also, can you get into his e-mails? Give it a go.

Check bank statements.

I totally understand that you need evidence - or he really will deny it for ever, get better at hiding it and totally ruin your life.

This is all too familiar. But you know there is a wider problem than what he us or is not doing, and that is the levels of secrecy that have become normalised in your relationship.

You know he is making calls and texts, and deleting then, for sure. After you find out who she is- and you will, the dam will burst- you will come to realise that this cat and mouse way of living is worse than what he is up to.

Also, really not on that you already know he will lie, deny and minimise . Because if so, that's WHO he is.

It seems likely that he is friendly and taking lots of support from you and your family, whilst shitting on the lot if you.

I never got firm proof before I very finally confronted, but what helped was that the last time I did, I REALLY stuck with it. Believe me, when they see you won't back down and that the lack of transparency alone is no longer good enough, it all comes out. But you have to be incredibly strong and determined, for weeks if necessary. It took me 6.

You mentioned earlier asking your DM to be on standby to babysit if you manage to suggest a night out with his colleagues. So are you going to raise this with him?

It seems very calculating to be attempting to get this woman's attention and yet agree to play next month in your dad's memory and be an usher next year at the wedding of DSis. You said before you get the impression now that he's bored by you, he is so busy detaching he can compartmentalise. Like he's saying Yeah yeah whatever to you and the boys and normal life, whilst texting OW however many times a day.

I don't know how you live like this, baby under 1 and two small DCs, with this hanging over you. It might feel like goading him by challenging him when your instinct is to hold the plot together but while you're trying your hardest, he is off on another planet.

Donkeys - when u put it in black and white like that it makes me realise I won't be able to cope like this for too long, but the fact is until he slips up I simply have to. I just can't let him have his cake and eat it - when I confront him I need him to a) admit he has strayed, b) tell me if he loves her and wants to keep things going with her , and c) formulate a plan with me for our future as a family. With counselling I reckon. If i confront him with only suspicions he will deny it as that's the easier path - none of the above will happen. And I do already know who she is as I checked the frequently occurring number on the phone bill with his contacts on his mobile. She's his colleague - they're in a tiny cupboard of an office together for most of the day. They all go out as a group once a fortnight or once a month so when he next mentions the dates been set for their next outing ill tell him I'm joining them.

It shouldn't be like this should it.

I dont know if I could wait abney. :-(
My fiance was trying to get sexual interest from a friend of his on fb. I just gave him my phone and asked for his. He couldn't wriggle out of it although he continued to lie.

"And I just know he will deny everything and make me feel like I'm going crazy unless I can say I've seen proof with my own eyes. I don't want him to be able to continue this while being even more careful because then ill be even more trapped in an impossible situation."

Eventually, after a long time, ab, you will see that this in itself is enough reason to take action. If you just know that that's kind of sad.
Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who will gaslight you like this, make you feel crazy, attack you and then carry on being unfaithful? I'm not saying you have to leave the relationship, I'm saying you need to CHANGE it. IF you really believe that is what will happen, and that you will just accept that, feeling thwarted, then why the hell carry on looking for evidence? You assume that you won't leave a man who lies, denies and bullies you about his own wrongdoing and then carries on doing it anyway, so where is your line?

I get it's hard.

And you are never trapped in an impossible situation. There is always action YOU can take. It's crazy that everything is framed from his perspective, you are obsessed with how much evidence you can amass that will prove TO HIM that he is having an affair. Think about this. This is insane. He KNOWS HE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. HE SEES ALL THE TEXTS. It is YOU who must think about what you could see or read that will be enough for you, not him. It's almost as if you are waiting to find proof so that he can make the decision about what you should do. This weird focus on the cheater not being made to feel uncomfortable is bizarre. And it shows how deeply passive we can become in relationships where we fear loss.

You are so used to being bottom of this order and him being central that I don't think you can even see at the moment that there is a totally different way of seeing things. A way that is from your POV, not his, not a family member's or outsider's. Or on the other hand, there's a way where you are on the same side of this thing, being honest about the affair and then deciding what you both want to do, maturely, instead of indulging in stealth manoeuvres against each other. (seriously, he is deleting his texts, you are sneaking round checking them at night, you may as well be spies at war with each other.) It's amazing how many of us end up in relationships where we are essentially enemies with our partner (read the novel Gone Girl).

You're caught in the evidence trap, which is okay, you might find something that clarifies things for you. But I ask you to keep reminding yourself of these things.

1. Your DH is very thorough. This implies he is good at covering tracks, possibly even practised at it. So the worse the evidence is, the more likely it is he will successfully hide it. You may never find it unless you step up your surveillance to another level. If you never do, what will you do? How long? A month? A year? I'm not being facetious. Decide. Write it down.

1. If you step up your surveillance to another level, AND you discover something, then he might be so shocked at the lengths you went to that he tries to make it about you being crazy "You hired a private investigator!? You're crazy! I'm out of here" (or the classic, "You've now done just as much wrong as me, you've broken my trust!") What will you do then, think about it. Write it down.

1. Most evidence will be explained away in the most minimised way possible by a clever cheater, as I said before. "Sex talk? It was just talk." "She fell in love with me, I was just trying to not be rude." "I knew you would react like this, so I deleted them."

1. The situation may change as time goes on. Even if the affair stops somehow, in my experience, a large number of affairs are actually ended by the OW who gets sick of the lies and guilt. Then, if discovered, the DH pretends that they ended it to the DW, and 'chose' them, which emotionally suddenly they miraculously feel like they did, having been rejected by someone else. If you don't address this whilst it's happening you will never know any truth and spend your life not knowing what went on in your own marriage and not feeling able to ever ask.

Phew! That's it. Just plugging away to keep you from the tempting slow death that is denial.

Also please bear in mind that he is carrying on this affair despite having every opportunity to end it or tell you about it or confess to having checked out of the marriage.

I'm impressed that you know what you would need him to say on confrontation for you to consider staying, but bear in mind that he is, every day, choosing not to say those things. He is choosing to betray you every day and carry on cheating instead of addressing it and recommitting to you. Every day he does that should land with you about what sort of man he is and what his wants are. At the moment it seems that he is already having his cake and eating it. It's weird to me you only use that phrase to describe AFTER he knows you know. As if only his perspective is important. what about yours?

If only being confronted by you and being caught red handed at that with indisputable bloody evidence will force him to say those things you need to hear, then please think about how much he really wants those things himself, when and if he eventually says them. There's another poster her (on Update on EA, I think) whose OP said to her angrily 'you've got me trapped' after discovery. As if she was his mum cutting off his fun. Ugh.

ill be even more trapped in an impossible situation. - what situation? You are not imprisoned by him - you have choices.

You already don't trust him, you already have suspicions - and I can tell you that when you confront him (even with hard 'evidence') that he will deny it. Honestly you could catch him in bed and he will deny it (looking for bedbugs with her or something!) He will minimise what he does say. He will make it out to be your fault anyway. He will make you out to be crazy. So - if he will be doing those things anyway (and he will) then what's stopping you confronting him?

You can just say - Are you having an affair? Why are you glued to your phone? See what he does/says.
If he does go further underground - well., the trust is broken on both sides anyway.
You do not need his permission to be upset by his actions. As Tessa says, you have options. You do not need his permission to carry on with this marriage - if you still suspect him of EA or an actual affair, then get him to leave, and to realise what he is giving up.

Please don't fool yourself into thinking he doesn't have the time or opportunity to have an affair - they have plenty of both.

I understand about needing proof. I kind of hope you get it soon so that you can feel confident enough to get yourself out of this situation. It sounds though, that you would 'try to make it work' even if you found out he was definitely having an affair. You need to think about that. Do you really want to be with someone who should have your back, who very much became a part of your family (with your parents/sisters etc) and could do this to you, especially right after (or before and still) your Dad dying. There are some things in life which are just unforgiveable :(

You are doing very well holding it all together.

I agree with Tessa.

I think the OP wants him to admit it, say he didn't love her and is leaving her, and then will work to mend the marriage with the OP. if she can get this without telling her family and spoiling their image of him, all the better.

I think she wants this because the alternative is too scary to countenance right now.

I think a way to fail in life is to wilfully not see signposts along the road. I think there are big signposts here, but they are a shock and she would like her beloved husband to say they are not there, and are not real.

It would be easier all round if he did that.

I wonder if some time to get used to this may be the answer for the OP? I think us all banging the table to make her confront today may not work. It takes time for these things to sink in.

OP - I have said it before and I'll say it again - I think women need friends in life that they can run to with the awful truth, and they need money that they can draw to lift themselves out of trouble.

Sadly not all marriages last for life - but if you have good friends and money, you will always be alright.

While you ponder what to do with your husband, what's the situation with friends and money?

Also ask yourself this - why does it matter what your family think iof him and it doesn't matter what you suspect of him? Are you prepared to bury the truth to yourself and not tell your friends and family?

Your own heart will always be your best friend xxxx

I will hold your hand while you take your time to think it through.

I feel bad for you. Good luck.

That's lovely something2say , thank u. I do feel patience is my friend here. If my world is about to be ripped open then I need to have my head in gear.

I think one problem is, if he is careful, proof might be a long time coming.

I was fobbed off with lies for over five years. Mind you, I did confront early, so he was well warned and it made him even more careful.

Believe me, when you've made bargains with yourself that long about how you might just be wrong and you should stop being so suspicious, the truth when it comes our makes you angry and resentful as hell.

Don't do what I did. It was a terrible waste of my life. If you must have proof, and I can see why, then set all out to get it, and bring this phase to an end.

Proof is completely unnecessary if course. As I said below. But it does help with other people and it can help if you do divorce from a financial viewpoint. And i think some people forget how gaslighty and charming cheaters often are, with people other than their wives.