Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

albie I hope your presentation goes well and that you got some sleep in the end. How truly selfish of him to engineer an argument the night before your presentation ask yourself, would you do that to him?? I have always tiptoed around H's work commitments etc and tried to smooth the way as much as possible he always stomped all over mine! His constant saying was that I was allowed to work 'as long as it didn't affect him'. my consolation is that he did earn some money over the past few years and paid off mortgage etc and now half of that is rightfully mine

evil I think it might be a good idea to discuss your options with someone like WA before signing a rental agreement. But good idea to view a place anyway, I suppose it gets the momentum going? But not sure I'm the best for advice! From what you said I'm not surprised that he is now being nice and therefore you're doubting what you were thinking-- classic situation, I've been there for years, thinking that I had overreacted and that I was the problem because I was too sensitive. Talk to your GP and good idea to document incidents so you can be clear in your own mind about the situation.

Thanks for your messages of support. I don't like posting and running but did manage a really big sleep last night and hope that helps me nudge things forward a little bit today.
charlotte I can understand you feeling like that about DC, I guess you can only see how they are as the weeks go by. I am sure he will be on best behaviour at first with them too - that old being really nice and things all going well, to prove someone else is the problem thing - that Lundy talks about. Mt fear is my DS doesn't even know FW, he lives away from us in a different kind of place. DS knows no one he knows. I think I would get used to the time to myself though but I guess it would take time. As long as DC was happy then I think I would be ok but you just dont know how you feel.
That's totally agree with in he has made your special day all about him. I would go out with your friends I don't think he will be any less abusive if you don't.
The thread has gone quick.
silvery you are right to remind me that even a simple task moving things forward will help.
Match great news, I feel like it has suddenly happened but I am sure you feel it has taken too long - so pleased things are moving it gives me/us great hope.

Hope your presentation goes well, Albie.

You know what, water? Whether to take what comes or wait for something better - there's no right answer. There's just what you want to do. It's scary not knowing which is going to work out better in the long run, but then we never do. It's your decision. Think it through, listen to your instincts, gather information, listen to advice if you want to, but don't let anyone else make your decision for you. It won't be easy, because chances are you're not used to flexing your decision-making muscles!

thats, Happy birthday. Cake and candles from me.

I can so identify with all this messing up your birthday, vague plans so the emphasis is all on you 'keeping good' to get a smallscale celebration at his whim, when the point of birthdays is about WHAT MATTERS TO THE BIRTHDAY GIRL. Try not to doubt yourself and to carve out a capsule great birthday if not a full-scale one this year. Being validated and celebrated for being you shouldn't be about only if you behave as a Good Girl in his terms.

Of course he needs to consult (ask even) before assuming you travel north. Even moreso for your birthday weekend. Its ok for us each to have different priorities.

albie hope the presentation goes well. My FW used to do these things too, - big arguments late at night. I'd be asleep and he'd wake me up, shout at me and storm off, slamming doors. I think it was when he felt I wasn't giving him enough attention (felt I was getting too validated at work, too independent?) But it did have the result that I was preoccupied with what I'd 'done wrong', with the relationship with him and how I could 'fix it', rather than my reality and just being asleep FFS. Really rather like our kids used to be when they'd sense I was about to go out for a girls night out and didn't want to be left with the babysitter, so there would be a demand for yet another bedtime story. But these are adults and we aren't their mothers.

I had a massive revelation with my FW that even if I had been his mother, by now with the length of our relationship he'd be 17 and preparing to leave home... And that our 15 and 12 year olds were more self sufficient, independent and far less controlling than him. Helpful reality check for me.

Also just wanted to say to everyone wondering about calling the police I phoned 101 a few weeks ago, to log our address before telling FW (outside the house) I wanted a divorce. I just wanted to do a quick phonecall but they couldn't have been more sympathetic, took all the details on the phone, had a sergeant phone me back, insisted I came by for an appointment (24 hours availability) logged all the details, listened really well, referred it to DV unit for risk analysis. A really really positive experience (Thames Valley). So sorry to all who aren't having this level of support, but did want to encourage those who are wavering, it can be like this too.

to all especially those having such a hard time. but well done for all the plans afoot..sounds like it is going to be a busy old train to indifference and freedom over the coming weeks

that's there is just no winning. put on your noisy shoes and go out if that is what you fancy but not if the fear ofthe consequences will spoil it. If you liaise with the dcs maybe you can cut him off at the pass.

Something along the lines of 'anterior brilliant suggestion of meeting the dcs, i have had a chat with them.they said, as it is my birthday they would love to come and meet us for lunch here {insert name of restaurant} and as it is my birthday they would like met go on to the show afterwards. how clever you are darling to overworked this out so that i get to spend timewith you and the dcs and my friends. so you see it has all worked out perfectly.
is bil in same place/nearby?if so you can throw in you going to show while he goes on to see bil. as in and while i am at show you can go and see you brother without having to worry about me bring on my on my birthday

Might take the wind out of his sails.

albie go with your gut. the thing is leaving is definitely a good thing but it is not all fanfares and smiles. it is also heartbreaking and painful and there is a huge sense of loss. this is not a reason not to do it though. just a stage of the recovery that you cannot avoid....so it is best to make your post split position as good as you can. you have weigh up how bad staying is with how long it will take to find somewhere etc.
so I guess what I am saying is, yes, do go, definitely. but don't take
the first rental if it is a dump or you cannot imagine being able to make it homely and cosy. life will be tough enough. but conversely do't wait fir the perfect place. good enough will do. the important thing is that you can feel safe and at home there.

red glad your call to 101 went so well and thanks so much for posting about it. it really helps to hear how they deal with these things and that it is so with doing.

Sorry for all the bernardisms above. hope you can guess the gist.

Oh and yyyy to the late night fight before they sleep like a baby. almost as if having a fight actually helps them sleep, satisfied at a job well done

Spot on with the late night thing mink my FW used to give me a reminder first thing as well, just in case I had manage to forget

Oh, better, my FW would carry on the next morning like a robot as if nothing had happened, whilst I was still feeling sick and churned up inside. No way was I allowed to bring it up, that was me being like an elephant who never forgets. Bleurgh.

I'm feeling a bit that I'm a FW now :( My FW does tend to like to have contentious discussions at 11pm or later. But then I usually do manage to sleep afterwards. FW says that at the moment his pulse is racing and he is only managing 4 hrs sleep per night. To be honest he does look awful. He has never been a good sleeper. I used to think that perhaps his lack of sleep was one of the reasons that our relationship has gone so wrong - as we haven't slept in the same room for 7-8 years as my tossing and turning wakes him up, and then he's really grumpy the next day :( :( :(

Of course you are not a FW bounty - it's not defined by you being able to sleep! If he has a racing pulse etc, then he's even more of a FW - so determined to have that contentious discussion at 11pm, knowing it will make sleepless but not caring because then he'll just take it out on you anyway, in one way or another. In fact, I would suggest it was still done with deliberate calculation - so he can blame you for his inability to sleep despite the fact that he was the one starting the argument

thats happy birthday. Please let your birthday gift to yourself be leaving him. It's not worth it anymore, what's stopping you now the kids are at uni?

YY, pony, I agree, if you are anxious, why start a discussion at 11pm? Sounds like he is laying on a guilt trip. Suggest Dr Stuart's tranquility tea to him bounty, and explicitly head off contentious discussions with let's leave that for now, why not make yourself a cup of tea, we both need to sleep. He may push at it, thus demonstrating fwittery.

Bounty mine is also only having 4 hours of sleep a night as a result of my cruelty - perhaps they could chat on fwnet

I am under severe, relentless barrage of pressure here, as he tries to change my mind and entice me back (entice, ha! with constant, smothering drama of one sort or another). I now have a very severe (literal) pain in my neck! I have been reading Lundy and finding parts that are so incredibly helpful and insightful. All hail the Lundy! But in reality I am driven down and down, it's exhausting.

breathe, it is exhausting, and the grinding down is literal, hence the demonstrable physical symptoms. When can you remove yourself/him from the living situation? That is, when can you physically separate? Unless you capitulate to him, that is the only way you will be able to start to recover.

I know quiet, I am finding it very difficult to do final step, though no probs with holding firm. For a few days this week his denial broke and he fell to pieces, then he reassembled and did barrage of hearts and flowers. When my refusals finally hit home he is now in dramatic slump that's affecting everyone, kids in particular. He has gone into bitter mode now- I am manipulative, I have a plan etc (yesterday I was the most wonderful person in the world up till when I asked him for the fiftieth time to back off) luckily in a way his dramas make it impossible for my natural apathy instead of self preservation to last for too long. He will push me to take the final step.

Hello everyone, I think I'm in an abusive relationship, I might be the abuser though am not sure. I have read a few of the links above and sometimes I think it's him, he has done some awful things, but a lot of the time I have let him. The link about destabilizing comments really hit home on the third link down. This is his speciality. We break up a lot because of how he treats me but I always take him back and right now I actually really miss him.

Hello muff. On your thread you say that you do not live together - this is a huge plus. The less there is to entangle you materially, the better.

I know what you mean about feeling you have let him do awful things. I sometimes wonder what would have happened had I put my foot down re FW working. But someone who is not a FW does not do awful things in the first place (or if they do, they tend to notice the consequences and change, or listen to the person they affect and change).

I had depression for much of my life with FW. As I had had it since childhood, I thought it was down to me. In actual fact, for the last 20 years it was a reaction to helplessness in the face of cocklodging (money and housework) and verbal and emotional abuse.

I stopped loving my FW by the end, so can't help much with the missing him part - except to ask whether it's him you miss, or the him you think he could be.

Yes he moved out in August, before that we lived together for about a year but have been together on and off since I was 16, am 25 now.

He barges past all my boundaries and when I react I feel like I'm the selfish one.

Sometimes he is so lovely and then I feel worse for all the stuff I have done to him. It's like we are both trapped in this cycle of pointless drama. I break it off a lot but he doesn't pay any attention to that and carries on like normal.

I think I miss the familiarity this time, it is nice having someone to cuddle up with on the sofa even if you have to watch what they want. He throws temper tantrums otherwise even if I MN on ipad instead of watching the next shitty tom cruise film.

I really don't know my own head anymore, I thought I was over him but this afternoon I was telling him how much I missed him. He makes me feel quite safe until he destabilizes with comments and actions, example we have made plans and then he will change plans without telling me and the plans are (what I feel he wouldn't agree) deliberately leaving me out.

You say 'he makes me feel quite safe' - and I have to ask, Safe From What?

Muff hi, welcome and you are in the position you're in. The destabilising, the making you doubt yourself, the cycles of nice/nasty, the feeling that safety lies with him even though the pain and hurt you're experiencing in life is actually caused by him... all this is classic EA. We've all been there in one form or another and it takes a lot to face it and then to deal with it. You've taken the first and biggest step to freedom by naming it. Have you read the Lundy book? It's extremely clarifying.

I don't actually know silver, I just feel wrapped up and safe. I do wonder if its the familiarity that's the safe feeling? Saying this I have never known where I stand with him, one minute I'm the most important thing in the world to him and the next I feel like I'm on the side.

He has raped me, he has shoved me and pushed me and slapped me and strangled me. He once pulled down my top and shoved me against the kitchen sink for the neighbours to see me. I have had to ring the police to remove him to. All of that I have minimised and excused after lots of heated arguments.

I have been awful to him to, I have kicked him out where he was sleeping in his car, I over react and start lots or arguments, I make a fuss about stupid things and I cry a lot which he hates. I am very emotional and tbh quite jealous over things like texts on his phone (someone had text him how much they loved his and longed to see him, another how much she loved his and wished they could make it work blabla) we really don't work but he won't let me go.

He says he's going to leave me a lot because of my attitude and when I say well why don't you leave and leave me in peace if I'm such a horrible person to be with he says because he knows I can change.

I gave him so much of me iykwim and these last few months I have been really strong even if he barges in and refuses to leave takes his clothes off and gets in my bed I still in my head had detached but now I'm really wobbling thinking it's me. I have had dates I stopped after a second date with someone with huge red flags, I don't know whats normal now.

The biggest joke is on me I have read lundy I have been in a refuge over someone in between our breakups, I know the red flags I have done the freedom program and have worked hard on my self esteem and baggage from the past but I still feel like it's me and I could fix this.

This is why I kind of thought I might be a co-dependent person.

Sorry you're in this situation Muff. For what it's worth, all the the supposedly 'awful' things that you have done to him simply sound like how anyone could be expected to react with all of the horrible things he has put you through! No wonder you cry a lot.. that is certainly nothing awful that you are 'doing to him'.

Somehow he has twisted it all to make it as though he is the one with the choice to leave you... Do you really want to be with someone who treats you like this? I understand you feel like you have invested so much in him but that is no reason to stay if you are unhappy-that is a reason to not give him any more of your precious time.

Thats I hope you had a good birthday. Did you manage to see your friends?

Thank you everyone for the well wishes.. The presentation went really well (by which I mean I didn't cry/faint and managed to make people laugh) and had a really good turnout - big relief to have it done.

Reassuring to know that I'm not the only one having late night arguments that come from nowhere. He is exactly the same as you said inthequiet, I come in from having spent the night on the sofa and it's business as usual and, 'what's for breakfast', ugh.

Thank you for the balanced view mink.. helpful to think about the other side of how it will feel to leave. It's so confusing as when he's lovely I think I would be crazy to leave but on Friday night it took every fibre of my being just to not drive away forever in my pjs. I am doing as you said and trying to sort myself out before I make a move by finding a job etc away from here. I know if I am not busy I will just wonder whether I've done the right thing. I have also given myself a deadline to aim for otherwise I worry that I will put it off forever. Trying to be proactive and have made an appt with a therapist too to have some support in that way.

How has everyone's weekend been?

Muff, there is another book by someone called Marie French Hirigoyen, called Stalking the Soul. She basically argues that if you are in an abusive relationship, you have two choices: you either submit (and your identity is gradually eroded away) or you respond in an abusive manner to counter it (and your identity is gradually eroded away, because this is not the person you want to be or are).

Sometimes the only way to fix something is to realise that it is not fixable in its present form, and that you need to take things apart. The only part you can fix is yourself. And I mean fix in terms of heal, not fix in terms of there is something wrong with you.