Why do I put up with this?

[MoneyMug]

I have name changed for this.

I'm a SAHM to a newborn and toddler. The thing that's making me write this is that I want to do something, costing £16 a week, that will benefit my toddler. But I can't afford it, yet my DP can afford to spend £100's on his hobby.

I'll try not to make this too long.

We have lived together for over 2 years. The first year, I had very little money. I literally just managed to buy shampoo and take my DC1 to a £1 baby group once a week. No clothes/makeup/haircut. Luckily my mum brought most of DC1s clothes. DP paid all the bills nappies ect. I didn't ask DP for any money and he didnt give me any. I remember when all my money ran out and I only had £1 left (DP didn't know this) DP needed change and so borrowed it. I had saved it to be able to take DC1 to the baby group so obviously I couldn't go. I cried the whole day. I can't blame DP because he didn't know.

After a few weeks I built up the courage to ask him if I could have some of the tax credits, and I'd buy all of DC1s stuff with it. At least then I'd be able to treat her occasionally and take her to the baby group. So we agreed that the tax credits could go into my account, I'd keep £25 a week and give the rest to him.

Anyway we've had this arrangement for about a year now. So I buy nappies, wipes, cotton wool, clothes, shoes, toys, ect plus all non essential food items like toddler crisps ect.

Sometimes DP offers to pay for something but mist of the time I can tell it's a half hearted offer so I just say no. I'm stupid I know. But I can't take his money. Because that's how o see it. His money.
When we go shopping, he does the food and I have my own stuff, nappies ect, separate. (what must people think??) when we were buying DC1s birthday cake, DP put it with my stuff. He didn't even want to buy his own Childs birthday cake. Luckily I had enough money for it. We go halfs on their birthday presents.

Then I had DC2. Only a few weeks old and I haven't had the chance to contact tax credit yet so I've got to buy 2 lots of nappies ect with £25. I'm struggling. I haven't been able to give DP his money this month and I just didn't mention it. I didn't think he had noticed but i jokingly said 'I wish I had loads of money in my bank account!' and he said 'well you're luckily haven't taken any money off you.' so obviously he has noticed.
I don't know how he thinks I'm managing with £25. dC2 was a big baby. None of the newborn clothes I had brought fitted which meant I had to buy more. Only 6 babygrows fit. Icant afford to buy more.

DP spends so much on his hobby. Parcels every week. Sometimes more than one. It never used to bother me and I used to think this was normal. It's only since being on mumsnet that I realise it's not. To be fair we are very young and so maybe he doesn't realise. And I have never asked him for any money or told him I'm struggling.

I'm starting to get resentful though. I can't afford to get my haircut. My mum paid for it last year as a birthday present. I can't afford any clothes and none fit after having DC.

I can't ask him for money. I just can't. I have a mental block that just won't allow me.

I think about leaving him sometimes but I've got nowhere to go and no money. I'm not from this part of the country so doubt the council will house me either.

Thanks fir reading. I just needed to get this off my chest. I know nothing is going to change.

Tell him

you haven't managed before, you have been going without.

he is spending money meant for his children on himself.

he has be sorted or ....

Lyra personally I don't think it is helpful to suggest the views of others are unhelpful. Everyone is trying to help and I think many of us feel that we want the op to realise just how wrong this situation is. This isn't a small thing, this is affecting every aspect of her life and minimising it may just convince her that she should suck it up and just learn to live with it. Clearly the op is intelligent enough to make up her own mind which advice to follow.
OP if you feel able, can you give some more details about your anxiety problems and their origin?

your post reminds me so much of my sisters situation

firstly, its not 'your' or 'his' money, as you are a couple, you share finances

my sister has to wait for her oh to get home from work so he can buy a jar of pasta sauce as she isn't given any money

its a form of control and you need to be strong and not take it anymore

I still find it absolutely unbelievable that a couple sharing a life where one is a sahp can walk around the supermarket with two separate trollies deciding who pays for what.

But you aren't coping at the moment are you MoneyMug? Your children are missing out on doing stuff. Presumably you haven't had new clothes or anything for a while.

But tbh that's not the point. You and your children should not be surviving on £25 a week when he has considerably more. Money should be pooled. You are now a family.

Actually that's a better idea in telling him you haven't managed and you've been going without.

I asked about the anxiety because I find it concerning that you can't have this conversation with him face to face. This kind of conversation is what sharing your life with someone is about.

A bloke writes: OP, this is how a normal father and partner of an ebf child and a SAHM did it.

ALL the money into a joint account. Pay bills, shopping, kids stuff. Take out £5 per week for DW hairdo (v. important), same for my weekly pint. What's left? Split it 60/40 her/me, Why the discrepancy? Because I knew she would budget under, but she grew up on little enough and a cushion is nice. Any purchases over a day's wage discussed first.

Guy, I'm not trying to minimise anything. Everybody here agrees that the situation is very wrong. I was questioning some people's assumptions that the reason it's come about is because he's deliberately trying to abuse and control her, not that he's just a bit of a selfish, tight idiot.

I have been in a relationship that was abusive, financially among many other things.

My XP (father of our children) was very generous with money when he thought everything was ok between us. The more he realised I wanted out, the more he tried to find ways to control me. He announced one day that he would no longer be paying the family's food money into my account, as he had done for over a decade, but if any food was needed he would buy it on his way home from work. That would mean I'd have no control over when or what I fed our DC. He tried this because power and control were important for him and the more he lost control of me in other ways, the more he tried to find other aspects of our life to control in order to retain his power.

I told him in no uncertain terms that I would never agree to this system, that I needed the financial freedom to be able to feed our DC the way I wanted to and had done since they were born. I would not be dictated to on this.

He eventually backed down but not without a hard fight.

The OP is lacking this ability to fight for what's right for her and her DC and that's why I think we should concentrate on trying to help her gain the courage and assertiveness to do it.

My XP very much WAS financially abusing me (or trying to). It doesn't sound to me that the OP's partner has the same motivations, from what she's said, and she know him best.

it not he

though of course he does too.

If you do and say nothing, nothing will change.

If you tell him he is out of order and what you expect (equality!) and he says no then you make him say why not and then you choose to stay as a put upon mug or you walk away to make a new, better life with your children.

OP The other thing maybe to remind him you are not a child who has to ask for pocket money. You are an adult who is looking after your/his children. You are entitled to be treated as such and that means having access to the family finances when you need them. Not having to go cap in hand and prove that you need more money.

And it wouldn't do any harm to remind him if you weren't there he would either have to take a huge drop in income to look after the children himself or take a huge hit on outgoings to get someone else to look after them. A damn sight more than £25 a week anyway (not to mention food/clothes etc for the children).

Lyra, I think you are reading a different OP to some of us. Yes he maybe 'nicer' than your ex but the underlying attitude is the same. He thinks it is OK to financially control his partner and his children, because he is the wage earner. It is deliberate. The example Atilla gave about putting the children's b'day cake in her trolley demonstrates that perfectly. Why wouldn't he want to buy his child a birthday cake? Why?

The problem is that changing attitudes is incredibly difficult to do.

"I was questioning some people's assumptions that the reason it's come about is because he's deliberately trying to abuse and control her, not that he's just a bit of a selfish, tight idiot. "

I would question whether it matters.

Whether he is motivated to control her through lack of money, or whether he is motivated through greed and wanting to keep all the money for himself is irrelevant.

The result is that he is controlling her through lack of money because she is permanently short of the money she needs.

The fact that he is taking tax credits and child benefit for himself speaks of an EXTREMELY greedy man.

If he was expecting her to make do on just what the state provides for children and not giving her any access to family money, I'd still think he was a sod.

But he is TAKING money that is clearly, and unequivocally meant for the children and spending it on himself.

And he seems to have devised a logic whereby he can set an arbitrary and very low amount of money and insist that his wife and two children get by on it while he keeps the rest for himself.

There is no kindness here, no care for his own children and the woman he is supposed to love.

Just a very keen sense of his own interests and a determination to make sure no fucker (even his own kids) get in the way of what he wants.

It DOESN'T MATTER if he means to or not. Lyra has agreed that. He IS financially abusing her, whether he means to or not.

So the OP needs help to change the status quo. She has agreed it needs changing, so no one needs to keep saying how abusive it is.

OP I think you will feel more confident when you know that facts of your household finances, so start there. Gather the figures, add up what you need to spend (not what you have been managing on, what you would spend if you could, including the £16 for an activity for your DD). When you have the figures you can email them to your partner and ask him to sit down to discuss it.

But do all this AFTER you have called the TC and changed the CB to your account!

Actually, the OP herself keeps minimising what is happening because she doesn't think he intends to control her using finances.

I think it is important to point out that it doesn't matter whether he intends to control, or whether the control is a by-product of his greed.

You are not in charge of this thread or what people are allowed to post here and your aggression is hardly likely be helpful to the OP, even if it is aimed at other posters who are not obeying what you perceive to be the party line.

Money I hope you are OK. And I hope you are starting to see that the money that is intended for you children is not in any way HIS money and that you are absolutely entitled to have it paid to your account and not to give it to him.

Who is the "you" in the last post?

Sorry, the PP. I would have thought that was obvious.

Anyway, no interest in getting into spat on Money's thread, just think NoSquirrel's peremptory bossiness is out of line.

I do not for one minute think the OP will actually get anywhere with talking to her man. She can try certainly and perhaps he may give her some small concession but it will not last long.

This is from Womens Aid re financial abuse:-

"It is often very difficult for victims to recognise abuse which is of an economic or financial nature: it may develop slowly and insidiously, so that what at the outset could be seen perhaps as protectiveness can become increasingly controlling, and leave no outlet for an independent life of any kind. For example, a potential abuser might say something along these lines:

I’ll take care of all the bills – you don’t need a bank account.

I earn enough for both of us, so you don’t need to work now: I’ll look after you.

While initially this might seem acceptable, it gives the one earning and paying the bills considerable power which could potentially be exploited in order to perpetrate abuse over the other partner.

Both victims and those supporting them may be reluctant to name this behaviour as “abuse”. Hence many women will have lived with it for many years, until the negative impact has become almost overwhelming".

I also think he will do everything in his power too to dissuade her from working or if she does work, to hand over all her earnings to him.

OP has already handed over the child benefit along with a proportion of the tax credits, what is to stop him ripping her off her earnings as well?.

OP, you've taken some baby steps in standing up to your DP over the cost of formula milk, which is great. Just keep doing a bit more of the same.

The tax credits issue seems easiest to deal with from my POV, as you don't have to do anything, IYSWIM. You can just stop giving him half your tax credits- so it would be up to him to ask why.

As for why you can't survive on £25 "any more"? You now have 2 children. Babies are expensive. But children get more expensive as they get older, so the toddler's costs are rising too....And the world and his dog know that the price of food keeps going up!

Op if you would find writing a budget difficult and also this poses the risk that any budget you makewill also beset in stone and will not cover emergencies or extras e.g. birthday invites, sudden growth spurts etc. so you may get more money but probably not much more and it is still not equality.

You could instead approach it by saying. i don't think the finances are fair. 25 is not enough money. don't justify it. it is not, end of. and then tell him to imagine he stayed at home and you worked how would he expect the finances to b managed. this will tell you if he has any empathy. if he has to imagine himself in your shoes he may see how unfair it is. if he cannot then it is probably deliberate.

Either way you will have made progress. and you can tell him this in an email or a text.

What if he says that I've managed on £25 a week for this long, why do I need more? Because I think that's what he will say.

Is that what happened with your parents? You have such a strong sense of what's 'his is his', what's 'mine is mine' (+ the DCs) but no sense at all of 'family income' where one or two parents work for the benefit of all. You taking some control back does not mean you are treating partner like your mother treated your father.

It's almost irrelevant whether partner is acting purely out of selfishness or control. Either way he thinks it is fine to not only spend earned income on his hobby, but also take possession of child benefit and tax credits. It's really, really not good. It's also really, really not good that you can't see this and that you are frightened or ashamed to confront the situation.

People have mentioned Women's Aid - they're great. Children's Centres are great (if you have one). GP - great if you feel you would benefit from counselling (and I suspect you would benefit from counselling).

This thread has upset me so much. I can't get OP and her little kids out of my head.

The simple answer is that you are not managing.

Your children are going without the clothes they need, they are missing out on activities that as a family you could afford, they have missed baby sessions because your partner took the last pound you had put by. You have no clothes to fit.

He tells you that you have to pay for the children's needs, yet takes the money intended for that. I'm not one to go on about taxpayers funding lifestyles , but the CB and TC are meant to enable you to provide food, clothes, shoes and living costs for your children. Nobody begrudges your children that money apart from their own father, who would prefer to spend it on remote control helicopters or whatever.

And the fact that you don't want to consider this financial abuse doesn't stop it being financial abuse.

The headlines are full of things like food inflation. It was never possible long term and now things are going up it is just not tenable. He can research food inflation if he wants.

It's not that though. My DH loved spoiling our ds. He liked getting him little treats, getting me little treats. He loved seeing ds in nice clothes. Your partner is taking the food out of the mouths of your children

OP, you feel bad asking your partner for a more equal share in the finances but you are actually letting your own family - mother, grandad - subsidise you financially. (hair cut, DC's clothes, phone credit).

So, by extension they are also helping pay for his hobby...

Please find your inner strength to fight for you and your DCs. You owe it to yourself and them.

Everybody's paying for his hobby Maria. Most of all his children.

Money, you don't need to be embarrassed. Your partner, on the other hand, should feel totally bloody ashamed that his children and their mother are going without so subsidise his hobby. His behaviour is a disgrace, and I really do wish you the strength to stand up to this.

If you went to work, it'd cost him much more than the child benefit and tax credits to fund childcare places. And if you left him he'd still be paying more than he is now via CSA payments.

Do you not see OP, in your desperation not to be like your mum, you have instead married her? You are your Dad. You know the relationship model is not healthy. You have experience of it as a child and look where it led you. So along with a deprived childhood caused by their fathers greed, you will pass on an horrific attitude to money, control and relationships to the next generation. Is this what you want?