AIBU to feel gutted and feel that dh has totally betrayed my trust here?

[Lisavarna]

By way of back story my dh and i have just had an awful 6 months of fighting. Basically i feel he has behaved really selfishly by taking himself off on 4 trips, two for golf, (5 days in spain and 3 days in donegal) and two trips for concerts, one of them in london, away for 3 days on that one and two days on the other. These trips were all taken between end april and start of august, so around a 11week period.

We have 5 kids and i am a SAHM. These trips put a lot of pressure on me and when i said this was a bit much to be going away he reacted badly, defensively.

Later, much later, and after weeks of not getting on, and him saying some nasty stuff to me he admitted that he HAD been selfish, as life is too busy around may june time with all the kids sports and activities for him to be away all those times and he assured me that it was a once off, and from now on he would plan his trips to fit in around the family and space them out better. The golf trip at the end of april is an annual thing and i dont mind about that as i think it is good for him to have a trip away with his golfing mates, he always comes back really rested. But the other trip, (organised by an old school acquaintance) taken two weeks after spain was taking the piss i felt, and he agreed that it was too much.

This was about a month ago. I have since found out, (heard from the wife of one of the other blokes) that he as already committed to going away on another of these trips organised by the school acquaintance, basically the same trip that was in donegal in may except this time its to be in kerry, at the other end of the country to us, and will be for 3 days.

This is all despite the fact that he is already going away to spain in april, and his brother is getting married in june so i expect there will be a stag do in april or may.

And yet he has committed to this trip as well, despite his promises. And hasnt even bothered to discuss it with me as he knows how i would feel. I feel devastated. We had an awful time this summer and we are meant to be getting our marriage back on track again and yet he is still busy planning his jollies away, more than 8 months in advance.

Thanks delaying although you know age would probably be a bit right in saying that, cos i have to take some of the blame here for believing him and letting things get to this stage. I thought i was being accomodating, i was so grateful for everything that i had, and i believed that deep down he was a good man who cared for us, but who just needed to get away or let off steam a lot.

Now i know better, i let him walk all over me. Silly woman indeed, however yes, telling me all that now is not going to help me, i know that anyway. I have thought and thought on this, and with the help of the lovely women on this i have i think, reached a solution of sorts, with an option to pull the plug completely if it comes to that.

I am not afraid of the future on my own, i have always been self sufficient. The one positive thing i did gain from my parents divorce was the knowledge that i can, and will, survive, i have strength within me and wonderful family and friends around me, i know that i can get through a divorce if it comes to that.

I am just not so sure that my kids are as resilient as i am, but i will cross that bridge if, and when, i come to it.

Age that's your assessment of your posting motivation - flawless as the driven snow, cruel to be kind, etc etc. Mine is that your posts reflect the type of judgemental nosy parkerism I'd associate with the Daily Mail, and have very little to do with the OP's best interests and more like kicking someone when they're down. We'll have to agree to disagree, won't we?

Good luck, OP. Sometimes, sadly, there are no great answers, as you know. Hindsight is 20/20 and all you can do is work with what you have, as best you know how. I do completely appreciate why you don't want to disrupt your kids - parents separating is stressful enough without losing your home, friends, family and town to boot.

So hope he stops being a cretin and wises up to all he's risking, here.

I agree he us selfish for booking a holiday unknown to you and not having an open discussion first.

However I do think its important to have time away from each other separately. I don't believe it's healthy to live in each others pockets. I know you choose not to have a break, but that's your personal choice. You could easily take some time away.

Obviously leaving you with 5 kids is unacceptable, so why not turn it into something special. Have a helper (mum?) or invite a friend to stay with their kids and you can all pitch in. Or pay for a babysitter for a few hours each day he is away to build in a daily break for you.

We have a very close large family unit (4 boys) but make a little freedom for us all to do something for ourselves. If your DH is really great all the time he is with you, why can't he have a couple of weeks a year? Surely it's ok as long as all the support systems are on place for you.

I am also from rural NI and divorce is fairly common, I can't imagine where it is stigmatised like you say. Perhaps twenty or thirty years ago ( when my folks divorced, and thank god they did ) but its not that backward any more in my experience. Even my devoutly Catholic mil is divorced and even her priest didn't bat an eyelid.

He takes us all away once a year to Tenerife or similar ... he can well afford it

So it's his money? and you're wifey at home with the dull domestic duties kids and he kicks his heels, sometimes taking you all on hols with his money?

It's not his money though, is it. It's your money, both of yours. You have a deal where you do the majority of the domestic stuff, he does the bringing in money stuff. it could be the other way around. If you are 'grateful' for the lovely life 'he provides' then you are colluding with his idea that he is the Big Man who can do what he likes, regardless of what she indoors thinks: she can hardly complain, he 'gives her' a good life and standard of living.

I hope that living separately under one roof will be a temporary measure and that, if things don't look up (and he doesn't flaunt a replacement in your face to get you to pack it in and conform), you'll make it a permanent split, with attendant separate living arrangements. You could buy somewhere in the same area - with the joint finances that belong to the marriage. As others have said, what we do with our marriages directly affects the kids, giving them a model for future relationships: they literally live in the soup of it, are marinaded in it.

What also stood out to me is the 'seven shades of shit' he puts you through if you make a fuss and challenge him on his selfishness. You went through all that and there he is, right under your nose, doing precisely what he wants. The message is to put up with it, woman - even, 'you're lucky'. You seem to agree with this when you say 'he' takes you on holidays that 'he' can afford.

Perhaps the oldest child/chidren would like to go with him on one of his golfing trips? That would give you a bit of a break, make things a bit easier for you. Not an unreasonable thing that he takes the oldest with him....

...except he wouldn't be able to get pissed. (I assume that's your point, Jux)

springy i cannot disagree with any of that. You are right, and i may well go on to divorce him in the future, i have come to terms with that as a very strong likelihood. I am going to try this first though, as i know it will be something that has an impact on him. Whether or not that impact is enought to effect a change in behaviour remains to be seen.

Yes that is it, he would never take our eldest, (a girl of 13) as it is a bunch of lads, all off on the piss and playing a round of golf every day for 3 days.

Retro However I do think its important to have time away from each other separately. I don't believe it's healthy to live in each others pockets.

The issue is that he will have been away in spain golfing for 5 days at end of April and then just heads off again, 4 days and 3 nights away for another golf trip 3 weeks later, in the middle of summer terms, and at a time when the kids and we, as a family, are at our busiest. I really dont think that is fair or reasonable. All i have asked him to do is avoid going away may and june, he still gets a trip in autumn, feb and again in april, its not as it he doesnt get time away on his own!

Springy, you sussed me! No, he can't take a girl I suppose. How old is your eldest boy? I'm flogging a dead horse here, aren't !?

Exdh used to go away a lot to the US for his interest. Encouraged by me. I'd take a friend away with me for a weekend and pay for it. We had the cash so it wasn't a problem.

We split for different reasons, separate trips weren't an issue.

Your dh is taking the piss and living like a single man. He doesn't sound as if he's grown up and sounds very entitled?

You sound an amazing mother though

May I just remind you to do some financial checks and take appropriate measures to secure your future & DCs', in case of divorce? Men who feel they're renting a family life, if you'll pardon the expression, have been known to consider the contract void when it stops meeting their expectations.

The law, of course, disagrees, so it's worth making sure you can provide it with the tools it will need.

Lisa - what's his behaviour like compared to the other fathers you know - is he worse generally in terms of time away, or is he fairly normal? At the end of the day, even if the other men do it, it doesn't matter, it's what you find acceptable that counts, but if he is no worse than the others then you might not find support from your ILs on your stance.

Have you thought about how you will respond to him? He is likely to either be very angry, or more likely based on previous history, will be very sorry and want to change. Do you have a bottom line for number of trips/outings you could live with and the level of interaction with the DC that you want?

Theoriginal yes, i have thought about it. i dont mind 3 or maybe 4 trips a year, if we can afford them, and providing they are spaced out well and work around us as a family, and not the other way round, which is the case at the moment, and always has been actually.

He goes away more than any other dad i know, and all my friends and other people, (even his own parents) say that he gets away more than anyone else with young kids that they know, and often people say to him in front of mw, gosh you have a very understanding wife, which probably translates as God your wife is an idiot to put up with that, but too nice to say so.

But they would be right. But it is also the case that the one way to get my dh's back up is to say i dont want him to go on some trip, then he wants to go even more, and will go, just to prove that he can. So i have avoided these confrontations.

But from now on, i will not avoid confrontation, i will very plainly say if i dont want him to do something. if he goes ahead and does it anyway, then its another nail in the coffin and another excuse for me to refuse to be at his side when he decided he wants to play happy couples.

Juniper thanks, i dont know about that, but i am blessed with amazing kids.

I'm a little confused now about your 'plan'.

I thought you were going to announce what your marriage was going to be like from now on and enact that if he failed to cancel this secret trip? I also thought you'd decided to withdraw from various events regardless of what he does and says now. I also thought you might focus less on individual acts of selfishness and speak about it under the umbrella of not loving and respecting you enough.

Now it sounds as though it will be a bit more hot and cold than that, depending on whether he takes inconvenient time out.

Are you yourself clear on this?

Sorry not sure what you mean leaven. Basically, if he pushes ahead with this trip in may, then what you have outlined is what will be happening. I am prepared to live like that, and am hoping that will impact him to the extent that he changes his ways.

If he doesnt, and living like that becomes intolerable or starts to impact on the kids, i will be seeking a divorce.

oh yeah i get it, reading that last post above at 16.28 i see what you mean. I still intend to go ahead and withdraw from stuff, starting with barcelona trip, if he tells me he intends to go ahead with weekend.

After that, i expect he will pull out of that golf weekend in may as he wont want to lose face with our friends re the trip, things will trundle on, then if he pulls another unreasonable stunt, i will take the same tack and we will see how he reacts. In the meantime, until things change overall, i am going to very much withdraw from doing anything as a couple, and just do my own thing really.

Does he know yet that you know he has secretly agreed to weekend next May ?

Wasn't it that you found out he had, but he didn't know that yet ? When are you having that conversation then ?

So he's obsessed with 'boys' golf weekends and he frets about 'keeping up appearances' as a couple at events or whatever. You sure you want to be with the bloke regardless OP? He sounds like a right prick.

So you're intending to pull out of the Barcelona trip only if he goes ahead with this Kerry trip? To be honest, I think you are likely to end up in a point scoring exercise. Especially since I think he already knows you don't want to do the Barcelona trip? It will just look like an excuse to go back on what had been agreed previously.

I think I would just say flat out, the news about this Kerry trip has realised how little notice he has taken of the points you've raised previously about the amount of time he spends away from home. Since he clearly intends to suit himself, you do too. End of. It takes the spotlight off him and his (many) needs and entitlements, and put your focus back on you and making your life as comfortable as possible given the limitations of his willingness to suck it up where modern parenting is concerned.

Good luck, Lisa. Keep strong.

Thanks Jux

AF He doesnt yet know that i know. I am going to confront him with it in the next couple of days. I want to pick my time, and make sure i feel strong and ready for the arguments and defences he will throw up to me.

Tribpot thinking on it, i dont think i am going to go on the barcelona trip either way now, no matter what he decides. He has proved his bad faith to me and i dont think i can get over that now, no matter what conciliatory gesture he pulls at this stage.

all my friends and other people, (even his own parents) say that he gets away WITH more than anyone else

then if he pulls another unreasonable stunt, i will take the same tack and we will see how he reacts

erm you know how he's going to reacte. 7 shades of hell, iirc. He'll play games with you, endlessly give you the runaround, drive it home with a mallett that he can do just what he likes. And he'll make you pay for not going along with it.

Time to stop arguing with him, endlessly discussing with him, to get him to 'see'. He can see if he chooses, he just doesn't choose. He's not interested. Time for statements (if you can be bothered to waste your breath) and, more importantly, actions. Think toddler.

Hi Lis

Just wanted to wish you good luck and just sound one note of warning. Don't depend on your PiLs on supporting you through this process. I would say that in 99.9% of cases, blood is thicker than water. Even if you can't imagine them turning their back on you now, chances are they will

I was very close to my ex's parents and still have some contact with them. But even though their son cheated on me spectacularly, and behaved appallingly, and they are ashamed of what he did, he is still their son and they love and support him

Anyway, good luck and let us know how you get on

springy "think toddler" I love that!

BitOut I know what you are saying, and will bear that in mind, its human nature i guess.