AIBU to feel gutted and feel that dh has totally betrayed my trust here?

[Lisavarna]

By way of back story my dh and i have just had an awful 6 months of fighting. Basically i feel he has behaved really selfishly by taking himself off on 4 trips, two for golf, (5 days in spain and 3 days in donegal) and two trips for concerts, one of them in london, away for 3 days on that one and two days on the other. These trips were all taken between end april and start of august, so around a 11week period.

We have 5 kids and i am a SAHM. These trips put a lot of pressure on me and when i said this was a bit much to be going away he reacted badly, defensively.

Later, much later, and after weeks of not getting on, and him saying some nasty stuff to me he admitted that he HAD been selfish, as life is too busy around may june time with all the kids sports and activities for him to be away all those times and he assured me that it was a once off, and from now on he would plan his trips to fit in around the family and space them out better. The golf trip at the end of april is an annual thing and i dont mind about that as i think it is good for him to have a trip away with his golfing mates, he always comes back really rested. But the other trip, (organised by an old school acquaintance) taken two weeks after spain was taking the piss i felt, and he agreed that it was too much.

This was about a month ago. I have since found out, (heard from the wife of one of the other blokes) that he as already committed to going away on another of these trips organised by the school acquaintance, basically the same trip that was in donegal in may except this time its to be in kerry, at the other end of the country to us, and will be for 3 days.

This is all despite the fact that he is already going away to spain in april, and his brother is getting married in june so i expect there will be a stag do in april or may.

And yet he has committed to this trip as well, despite his promises. And hasnt even bothered to discuss it with me as he knows how i would feel. I feel devastated. We had an awful time this summer and we are meant to be getting our marriage back on track again and yet he is still busy planning his jollies away, more than 8 months in advance.

Ok, fair enough. Then you have a big problem, and possibly some big decisions to make.

We will be here if you need to talk again x

Be really polite to him and treat him like a lodger.

Don 't cook for him, don't do his washing, don't pick up after him, don't engage with him on anything other than a wearied 'you're a tiresome lodger' level.

If he gets shitty, whistle and leave for another room.

The time for conversation is over. Time for action.

Advise him pleasantly but excitedly that you have joined an online dating site. If he gets pissed off, just look surprised.

I agree with you - what's the point in booking tit for tat holidays? It's not a tit for tat issue is it. It's a he's-a-selfish-entitled-knob issue.

I was on a thread a while ago talking about men who don't do housework.

But really that sort of behaviour is much the same as you're describing i.e. a man who treats his wife like a doormat and convenient child-carer for his children while he lives the single life.

The best way of getting men like this to wake up to the real problem is to stop focusing on the individual acts of extreme selfishness, whether it's laziness with chores or excessive leisure trips away from home- and talk about the effect it's having on your feelings for him. And your interpretation of his feelings for you.

You might need to confront something that is horrible, but is staring you in the face.

He doesn't love or respect you enough.

Once you're over that hurdle, tell him that's how you interpret his feelings for you. Then tell him that his actions, attitude and behaviour are causing you to withdraw from the relationship, lose your sexual attraction for him and lose your respect for him as a man, husband and father.

If you've had 5 kids with him and you've been putting up with this very old-fashioned set-up for so long, I expect he takes your very presence as a sign that you're content with your lot. He sounds complacent enough to think that you'd never leave him.

So bear in mind that in order for him to take you seriously now, you've got to be willing to deliver the ultimate sanction if there is no change.

I think the big issue here is that you and your DH have different expectations of your marriage. Personally, I am probably more like your DH, and I go away on trips either with work or friends a few times a year, though not for quite as long as your DH's (wish I could though). I also go out two evening a week to do my hobbies.

I'm just not a family/home-orientated person, though I love my family very much. I actually need that time away for my mental health, and luckily my DH understands and supports that. He's more like you though, and prefers to be home and with his family as much as he can be.

If he's only away a couple of weeks out of the whole year, are you not perhaps being a little unfair to say you think he should prefer to be home with his family? After all, most of the time, he is home with his family.

The two of you need to have a long talk, with both of you fully listening to each other, about your needs and expectations as regards these trips away. Make sure you truly do both listen to what the other is saying, and agree to a compromise that you can both accept. Again, make sure this is fully agreed and accepted. I hope it's just an issue to differing expectations where a compromise can indeed be made and different point of view understood, listened to and taken into account. The key here is listening and understanding, from both of you.

If, however, he refuses to listen and make any kind of compromise, then you will know that what other posters suggest is true, that he doesn't actually respect you or care what you want. But you also need to keep in mind that you need to listen and compromise too. With views so opposing, neither of you will ever entirely get what you want here.

Sorry, I used lots of "he" there without qualification. In paragraphs 1 and 2 I'm talking about my DH, then in paragraph 3 onwards I mean the OP's DH.

I think leaving a partner to cope with 5 children, taking several trips away in the space of 11 weeks, making empty promises to change and then secretly arranging yet another trip, makes all the difference.

Annie they've already had those conversations. And when you have five kids and work full time plus enjoy "a hectic social life" two weeks a year away is taking the piss, I'm sorry.

OP I wasn't serious about booking that time away yourself. When things in a marriage are hard, playing games is the worst thing to do, yes. I'm just angry for you. It was a "burn the bloody golf clubs" type idea, not a serious one!

Have you ever had/considered couples counselling? He might hear you better if a third party helps him. Though how you ensure a good one who doesn't share his archaic views is another matter.

Lisavarna, I am rather the same as you - I actually like being with my dc, though only 2 of them! One thing that helped dh realise what I was talking about- he gets very defensive too- is a giant wall calendar like one on an office, in the kitchen. Its full of dc activities and his stuff, and mine -so he can actually see he isn't here much. I also fill in, after the event if its unplanned any nights out , drinks with friends he has been to on the spur of the moment etc.

My two are less dependant now and I have had a sudden realisation that I have let similar happen to me and I was too busy with lo to spot it before it got out of hand. Might have my own thread soon:(

It might help him realise his time is also family time. Do you do anything with him, outside being at home with the kids? Just you too? Not so much dinner but maybe a new family hobby like orienteering or something?

When you have had YOUR four trips away, then you can talk about him having his next one!!

I remember your AIBU thread about this very issue :( Poor mite, I can really see why it's upsetting you.

Would it be possible for you to say something about how the kids need you as well as you? For instance: "Jimmy's football matches in May are really important to him, he'd love it if you were able to attend." Or "Katy's got a busy school term and your support around exam time would be great."

Maybe give him actual pointers about how you need him, and how the kids need him....

I do agree though he's been selfish, and your lack of passion for him is understandable.

Thanks all, i have to post and dash. Am taking kids to a sports fixture an hour away. Ironcially enough dh is off again today for the whole day to a sporting event in dublin, gone by 8.30, to be home around 11pm.

Leavenheath that is it exactly summed up in one line.

Perfect we went back and forth to Relate for a couple of years. I felt the counsellor was charmed by my husband, and only skimmed the surface of our issues, she took everything he said at face value and never challenged him on anything. She is the only Relate counsellor in our area so doubt i will put myself through that again.

Lavender i think that is a good idea re calendar, certainly would be good for me to have it to show him how much he is away.

needles thanks. I have had that sort of discussion with him, the whole point of his recent promise not to bugger off between may and june (when he has had a holiday in april) was because there is so much happening with kids, sports events, matches exams etc

I really don't understand couples who go away on separate holidays, no wonder you don't get on because you are never getting a break together, to rediscover each other and be a couple not just mum & dad. Your husband is indeed incredibly selfish to be booking these holidays without even discussing them with you but you allow it by not putting your foot down. Some men need to be told if we are taking the piss. If he is unwilling to stop all these trips and focus on you then he's not worth being with in my eyes.

OP I read your other thread about the weekend break with another couple. I really don't like the sound of your DH at all. Are you prepared to leave if things don't change? My impression is that you are not so whilst your DH agrees with you for an easy life he will continue to do exactly what he wants.
My advice is to try to distance yourself from him. Make plans for the weekend on the assumption he won't be there. Buy in childcare to ferry some of them to sports commitments at the weekend. Act as if he is a distant relative popping in for a cup of tea,try to detach.

You may say this is not what you want but let's face it you have tried counselling already which is a big step and that hasn't changed his behaviour. He wants to be a drop in visitor in his own family,fine let him see exactly how that feels.

I've heard that about Relate before. But there are couples counsellors who don't work for Relate, too. If he's really manipulative, however, counselling is likely to be tricky because you'd need a very good one indeed to pick up on that and challenge it.

I do think the calendar idea is excellent, too. In businesslike, indisputable ink it's a lot harder to evade. But it does sound like he'll make all the right noises and do what he wants, anyway.

Do you ever go away just the two of you, as a couple? If he gets trips and you're permanently with the kids, when are you more than the nanny/housekeeper to him?

I think the problem is you have a very traditional set-up (nothing wrong with that) but somewhat less traditional expectations (likewise). I'm sure in his parents' generation it was quite normal for the man to sod off on his own at weekends/on holidays - after all, as the wage earner who is thus (somehow) the most entitled member of the family, his wants and needs come first. Life is/was set up to allow that - he has no responsibilities outside work so provided he can book the time off, it's all good. When he goes away he doesn't have to plan it like a military campaign like you do, to ensure none of the spinning plates stop spinning whilst you're not there tending to them all day every day.

I don't think he will ever recognise that there is a problem here because he has no incentive to do so. The family set up runs entirely for his convenience. Nothing will happen because he's promised you one thing and done another - a few rows but nothing will actually happen.

I think if you want to see radical change, you will have to be prepared to make some radical changes. You don't necessarily have to go away from your family 5 times a year and leave him to keep the plates spinning, but you have to be prepared to do it to make the point.

I didn't realise you were the "couples weekend" poster

Op, your H has a problem with drink too

He may not be the traditional "alcoholic" but his drinking is impacting on his relationship with his wife and children, ergo there is an issue with it

A day out all day long on the Piss on a Sunday while you run around taking dc's to their activities ?

He is treating you like a domestic appliance while he has a laugh with his loser buddies

Are many of his friends divorced, btw?

ok back from sports run.

Yes, i have a problem with this man, i know that. He abuses alcohol on occasion, that has impacted our marriage over the years.

He is also extremely selfish, and well able to afford all these trips. He takes us all away once a year to Tenerife or similar, and we stay in a luxury hotel for 10 nights or so. I know we are dead lucky to have this, but i also know that he can well afford it, and i do not take the piss during the year with silly spending habits.

And yes, we are supposed to be going away mid october with this other couple for 3 or 4 nights to Barcelona. I do not want to go, but nor do i want to let this couple down. Dh knows i am not happy that we never go away on our own so has suggested we book a night away somewhere nice in the next few weeks before we go away in oct, as our anniversary falls at end of september. This is him attempting to show he wants to prioritise our relationship.

I was quite pleased about that, i knew itwouldnt solve pour problems overnight but it was a start. But now i learn he has committed to the gold trip in may, and has even offered to pay a deposit already!

I feel like an idiot. But also, i feel, fuck him. If he is going to treat me like an idiot, and take me for granted, then our marriage is going to reflect that. I am now thinking of pulling out of the weekend in barcelona, and explaining to the couple that me and dh are having problems, and also forgetting about night away for our anniversary. I am probably going to go away myself for a few nights to visit my mum and sister, where i always feel happy, and loved, and not taken for granted.

And i am going to sit my dh down, tell him that all bets are off. Short of hiding his passport i cannot stop him from going on any trips he chooses. But the direct consequence of this is that if he wants to live like a single man, then that is exactly what he can do. Separate bedrooms, separate lives, i dont accompany him on nights out or couples events, just to play happy couples, he can show up to all his work do's without me. He cannot trot me out when it suits him. I will have my own social life, own holidays and own life.

I am prepared to live like that. I love my kids too much to break up our family. I also love my Parents in law and my BILs and SILs, they are all lovely supportive people. I think i can live like that, i am quite an independent person anyway, far from needy. My kids and family are enough for me really, at least for the moment.

Again, thanks to you all for helping me sort through all these thoughts and work out what i want to do.

Such a shame. What a stupid man to treat his lovely wife with so little respect. I think you are right to pull out of the Barcelona trip (and I did when you previously posted about it, tbh)

When he drags you along to these drinking trips with him, you are simply an afterthought. That is not acceptable.

Thanks AF

I know that the Barcelona trip would also involve sightseeing eating out and shopping etc and dh would be very generous about spending money etc, no expense spared, but i now feel that going along with that trip is just participating in an illusion that we have an equal happy marriage.. cos we just dont. He doesnt respect me, and therefore why would i want to go away anywhere with him? I would far rather spend that time with people who really do love me.

Trouble is, there are more important things to give than money, aren't there? Time - love - respect. He can't (won't) give you those things.

He may think this is a fair deal for you - well provided-for and a lovely holiday once a year with the kids. But you have to think it is a fair deal too - and you're entitled to feel that it isn't.

Yup, as the cliche says, some things are more important than money.

Lisavarna,

I remember replying on your previous thread; this is the man who puts your dead last.

re your comment:-
"And i am going to sit my dh down, tell him that all bets are off. Short of hiding his passport i cannot stop him from going on any trips he chooses. But the direct consequence of this is that if he wants to live like a single man, then that is exactly what he can do. Separate bedrooms, separate lives, i dont accompany him on nights out or couples events, just to play happy couples, he can show up to all his work do's without me. He cannot trot me out when it suits him. I will have my own social life, own holidays and own life.

I am prepared to live like that. I love my kids too much to break up out family".

But its not just you who will live like that however. Your children will live that life as well and they will learn from it. If you are prepared to live separate lives then I would urge you to separate for good rather than just be miserable under the same roof.

Your H has broken this by his actions towards you his wife. And I daresay your children do not actually adore him at all, they act as they do because they fear him and thus do not want to upset him nor want to see you upset.

Is this what you want to teach the children about relationships here, what a crap legacy you'd both be leaving them if you were actually to do this.

My husband used to do this. At the time my children were 3, 2 and 1.

I booked a week away to see my brother and guess what, his trips stopped.

Sometimes you have to speak in a language they will understand.

Presumably your goals, aspirations etc must have matched at some point OP or you wouldnt have 5 kids together. Is it just since child numero 5 that he has started behaving like a cock? Did you not get any warning signs before that? Let me put this another way - did you ever discuss the impact that 5 children were going to have on either/both of you in terms of freedom, who was going to do what, whether you would each be able to go off on jaunts etc? Seems to be a major breakdown in communication has taken place somewhere along the way in this marriage.