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Dating Thread 63- disappearers, wedding bells and dodgy eye candy, all are welcome

999 replies

hostesswithleastest · 05/09/2013 23:36

Oops that title may have put off newcomers :D

Anyway.... the old thread is dead long live the new!

OP posts:
rubbishfamily333 · 09/09/2013 23:30

Super - he sounds horrible Hmm and guys like that do nothing for our confidence. I have slept with guys on first dates and some I felt fine after some I didn't, but none of them made me feel great! I hope your ok xx time to start being kinder to yourself and think what's best for you next time.

Western - I didn't know your dc's were going too. Has alpha spent a lot of time with them? And how long had you known him before introducing him to dc's? I'm very funny about introducing men to my dd, she is only 6!

lurkinglorna · 09/09/2013 23:38

Nothing wrong with casual sex! Grin

But I do still think the philosophy behind the pulling course stuff is a bit weak? (and I'm having a break from some essay coursework, so I'm going to elaborate here Smile).

Firstly, is direct causality actually there?

My ex and his City chums all had experience of being almost forcibly seduced by nubile, local attractive women when working abroad in E-Europe and Asia (even when they weren't big on the bar scene - one guy was a strict Muslim so no alcohol and still got chased!).

Best anecdote: someone got a guys cleaner to let her in, and then lay there naked in his bed to greet him Shock (and he was just some techie speccy dude, nothing to write home about, did "ok" in London dating wise but nothing outstanding).

Maybe the pulling course guys just needed to sit down and go HELLO I'M DAVE I'M ENGLISH WITH A GOOD JOB and they'd be in there. In an international city with a big influx of people, a lot of women are in "holiday mode - what happens here stays here so lets go wild" and want non-serious distraction. The men just need to be in the right place at the right time, not go on some course.

Also I feel it's encouraging personal growth in the wrong areas.

I'd question the value of desiring being seen chatting to attractive women, and being seen to "get numbers" and "take women home"? Is the sex even going to be good? Confused Or is it just for the benefit of other men?

Makes me think of the kind of guy who felt inferior to his peers growing up, and STILL feels a need to prove himself against all the other boys.

So he's almost going round with a sandwich board stapled to him saying PLEASE LIKE ME I PULLED A 10 LAST NIGHT Grin (when it's not actually that hard to do...)

Rather than craving approval that badly, maybe it would be better and cheaper to try developing a sense of self?

(I can offer this at www.lornagetrichquick.com, for only 1000 euros!)

lurkinglorna · 09/09/2013 23:45

Ham I have a weird background so find it hard to find ANYONE I have a lot in common with.

I think the trick is to have your own personal criteria for meeting and go with it? and don't go with stereotypes for professions? social and intellectual compatibility can't be judged by what someone does to pay the bills...

i was reading on the news a story about a postman who happened to be dating a very beautiful, successful doctor. the "catch" was that the postman was a war artist (which is why he was in the news) ex soldier, so obviously had a lot of interesting stuff going for him, too beyond his "direct" professional description.

good luck! Smile

DisneyonIce · 10/09/2013 00:44

Hello daters (and a big congrats to 49!). Need some, well dating-related advice please. (Sorry if TMI - I know some of you won't bat an eye but not the kind of conversation i normally have so have namechanged for this) Finally seeing someone regularly and finding it difficult to keep my bikini area, well tidy. I can't use home hair removing creams, they just don't work for me. i used to shave very occassionally and wax even less often - usually only if going on holiday. But now I'm having to shave regularly and ending up with lots of spots and ingrown hairs - not exactly the look you want with a new lover. I react better to waxing but then you have to let it grow periodically. Please help, I don't know what to do!

Bant · 10/09/2013 06:20

Disney - I'm afraid I can't be of much help.

Lorna - I agree with some of your points, but to rebut (cos I love a good debate, me :) )

Yes, the time and place is important. They teach these courses in places like this because it's easier to meet women here - in the same way they teach you to drive on back roads and suburbs, rather than the M25. If it's about being confident and approaching women and being interesting, then doing it in a country pub on a Tuesday evening isn't going to help the situation. Once they've learned the lessons and put it into practice, their confidence grows and they can take it back home with them.

Being in the right place at the right time isn't enough though. It's also acting in the right way and being self-assured enough to talk to a woman rather than stand over in the corner staring dolefully into your pint because 'women don't want nice guys' - which is a common misconception used to placate guys who think they're nice but really just put all women on a pedestal and lack the ability to approach them.

Secondly - I was in a club in England last year with some friends. Two of the girls were sat together chatting, and some random bloke comes up, plops himself down and stares at one of them. Then after a couple of minutes, he leans forward and says to one of them 'My name's Dave, I work in the City, I think you're lovely, do you wanna drink?' - the first girl says 'Sorry, I have a boyfriend'

So he turns immediately to her friend and says 'My name's Dave, I work in the city, I think you're lovely, do you wanna drink?'

At which point they both get up and go to the toilet together.

I chatted to my friend who'd been the experimental 'bait' who I mentioned earlier. She and her friend stood up from our table and stood a few feet away so they were separate from us. And within two minutes, three guys came over and said hello. They chatted for a couple of minutes, then my friends moved away from them and stood somewhere else. Another couple of blokes descended on them. And cue a repeat - moving on back to our table. They were underwhelmed. 'These guys are so boring!' said one of them. 'One of them was telling me how much he earned. What a drunken wanker!' said the other. Men use alcohol to give them the courage to break the ice, but overdo it and end up dribbling and babbling.

Whereas the trainees on this course, whilst being taught a few 'seduction tricks' like the beer spilling, are basically taught to dress well, look confident, have interesting stories to tell. They did very well with the women. When my friend spoke to one of the trainees, he was sober, funny and apparently really sweet. She fancied him even though she knew he had done the course.

And no - men don't, in my experience, try and pull women to be seen doing so. They do it so they can have sex with women, which is it's own benefit. If I meet a woman I don't go round bragging about it to other men, their opinion isn't really important, and I'd look like a moron. Do you go out with friends to meet men and take them home for the benefit of other women?

If this course teaches men self confidence and lets them practice it in a target-rich environment, then doesn't that make them a long term better potential than if it taught them how to get women blind drunk and try and seduce them? Or worse?

Surely it's better to meet someone like this than someone getting drunk and drooling on your shoulder, or trying to slip something into your drink, or never having the confidence to come over and chat to you?

If they're honest and confident and dressed well and interesting, I don't really see the harm. Women learn how to do makeup when they're young, and ask on here and in real life about what to wear for dates. They discuss what clothes to wear when going out to a club. Men don't talk to each other about stuff like that. We know it's vaguely important but if we're not confident enough to think we can meet and chat to a woman, then we default to t-shirts with cartoon characters, and jeans.

I was trying to work out how different that was to women on here being told to be more confident, to show your wrists at men in order to be seductive (I'm still not sure how that works) and I still haven't come to a conclusion. These trainees are shy men who don't have the balls to talk to women, who are taught how to grow a pair and treat women like equals who have libidos and want to be spoken to by someone funny and attractive, not pandered to by a drunken obsequious bloke who's obviously desperate for sex. The men pay a lot of money to be taught something which is kind of obvious to many women.

One fundamental difference between men and women is that a woman - any woman - can have sex if she wants to by going to a club and making eye contact with men. Eventually some bloke will come over and try and seduce or chat to her. It's just that she may have to lower her standards a lot. Men have to make the effort, go over and talk to them, try and be attractive, interesting, humorous, charming. We can't just stand there in jeans and t-shirt, and expect women to come over and try and seduce us simply because we have a penis. A woman can smell bad, look bad, be boring and eventually some drunken guy will try and have sex with her, as long as the men outnumber the women. It's just unlikely it'll lead to a relationship.

If you give an infinite number of men an infinite number of typewriters, eventually one of them will try and have sex with it.

Lastly, I spat my coffee out when I read your comment on a course teaching men to pull women that it 'encourages personal growth in the wrong areas'...
:)

Sorry for the long post, I am open to flaming by enraged feminists who think that men learning to be more self assured and attractive and to speak to women as equals is a bad thing.

TigsytheTiger · 10/09/2013 07:07

You don't arf talk a lot of sense our Bant Grin

Morning thread! Good luck with your exam Kitty

49howdidthathappen · 10/09/2013 07:25

Yeah. Good luck Kitty Smile

Bant · 10/09/2013 07:32

good luck Kitty - you'll do fine

akaWisey · 10/09/2013 07:35

Good morning, back with a (potential) dating dilemma.

Trying to do the rules which thus far has worked on the blokes I'm not really interested in and not with the ones I am (but that's another thread so I won't' go there).

So was messaged end of last week by guy who I like the pic and profile of. We exchanged a few brief messages about our jobs etc and then he asks for a date (tomorrow evening) So far so good.

We agreed to talk nearer the time, he said 'you choose the venue wisey, perhaps nice quiet pub'. Fair enough I thought. So it's Tuesday, we've both been online again but not in touch with each other since our last exchange on Friday and what do I do now? Message him as if I assume it's still on and tell him where I'd like to meet? Not message him (a la Rules because if it wasn't all bollocks he'll message me anyway)?

by the way, it may be my spidey senses but he actually said in message number two that he's had physical relationships but now feels the mind is more important (oh yeah?) . Two messages later and he tells me he's literally just got back from a week camping with a bunch of mates which means he was messaging me whilst with his chums. Which could mean they were telling him what to say………. I am so, so cynical.

People who are wiser than me. What should I do?

Bant · 10/09/2013 08:29

Wisey - if he asked you to choose the place, then choose the place and let him know. Otherwise he may be thinking you're backing out by not choosing one.

That isn't being demanding or needy - you're simply assuming breezily that he still wants to date you (because he'd be mad not to) and you're letting him know where to be so he can try and impress you.

The 'mind is more important' is strange, it could be an amber flag.

And I'd find it highly unlikely that a bloke would be chatting to his friends round a campfire and asking advice on what to say to a woman he was about to meet from an online date. We all like to act like we're confident with the laydees in front of our mates.

Asking what to say would be admitting to your friends 'I'm clueless with women' So I doubt that's the case. Could be, but I don't think so.

Winefiend · 10/09/2013 08:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhWesternWind · 10/09/2013 09:15

Ham if he seems like a nice bloke and you have some things in common, then it's probably worth a date just to see how you get on.

Kitty fingers crossed for you today!

Wisey - all sounds fine. You said you'd talk nearer the time (ie now), he asked you to choose the venue so I would agree that he's probably waiting for you to come back with a suggestion of where to go. Tbh I don't think the mind comment is that odd - the phrasing is maybe a little strange but what I'd think he's saying is that he doesn't want a relationship based purely on sex, he wants to be compatible in other ways too and that's more important. Which is good, isn't it?

Lorna and Bant you both make me laugh (in a good way!)

Family the meeting the children thing is something I've thought long and hard about, and I don't really think there are any right or wrong answers, just whatever works in the circumstances. Alpha is going to be around for a good while, so I'm happy for him to meet the children and do things together.

scrazy · 10/09/2013 10:57

It's always the blokes you aren't interested in that seem really interested isn't it? Maybe the rules have a point as you are going to apply them to men you don't want.

Another useless dating fact I came across recently is that men find it hard to leave a date/woman who they have a laugh with! Now when I look back, most of my ltr have been with men who have the same silly sense of humour to me and have had a giggling fit with early on.

I agree with letting them do the running, arranging, travelling and even paying for most of the first dates, which is a rules thing, but you also have to not be too available/keen for quite a while in the beginning by getting on with your life rather than playing games and letting them do the contacting, arranging second dates etc.

I'm not really answering anyone here, just pondering to myself Grin.

Flipper934 · 10/09/2013 11:07

Woohoo everyone, I'm back!

You didn't even notice I was gone, did you?

I've read this thread, but not the one before, so I'll say

CONGRATULATIONS! to 49 and Mr R&R, and wish you all the very best. I'm so thrilled for you, especially as you're not the marrying kinds...it fair warms the cockles.

Snape, glad all remains well with Nameless. Hope the ex is soon gone from under your roof. Is this the same one who was just dumped by text?

OWW, Alpha sounds lovely. Just lovely.

Kirsty, I think FoF is a keeper, too. Hope you're settling into your new home.

Tigsy, things are back on an even keel with Mr EA, then? That's what I like to hear.

Miranda, belated happy birthday, and have a wonderful time away.

Kitty, hope the maths test went well. Fingers crossed on the job front for you, you don't need my fingers crossed for Mr Car.

Broken, you said that your first impressions of this chap were wrong, but I don't think that's true at all. You were put off by his watch checking on your first date. Then, if I remember rightly, he made you feel bad about your 'performance' in bed? He doesn't make you feel good about yourself, and from what you've said, he never has.

Lovey, with the kindest of intentions, I'm going to be very blunt now. You've known all along that this man isn't a goodun. You've come on here to tell us your doubts, and we've agreed that they're valid, but then you've convinced yourself that it's ok to go back for more from him. Why?

< Nora>

Off to look for thread with bunfight referred to by Bant, Wine etc., and catch up with Thread 61. I've missed this place...

OhWesternWind · 10/09/2013 11:15

Flipper hellooooooo!! Glad you are back! What have you been up to then, missis?

lovelybunchofcoconuts · 10/09/2013 11:24

Hi everyone Grin
Hi Flipper, how are you?
In your previous post was the 'Lovey' bit about me? Have I missed something? Smile

OhWesternWind · 10/09/2013 11:28

I think that was to Broken, Lovely. Ironman is one of the good ones! How are you feeling about it now that it's slowed down by the way?

Flipper934 · 10/09/2013 11:38
Grin

I've been on me holidays! I can confirm that Egyptland is very warm, and that everything I've ever heard about all inclusive holidays (and holidayng with children) is absolutely true. I loved every minute.

Found the other thread - same old same old. I think it boils down to the reason for posting in the first place, which is for sympathy (and this is perfectly valid), whereas people on Internet forums tend to want to offer advice.

kittykat10 · 10/09/2013 11:40

Just a note to say.

exam done won't know for a few days !

OhWesternWind · 10/09/2013 11:58

Phew well at least it's over with now Kitty! Hope you've got something nice planned for the rest of the day.

Winefiend · 10/09/2013 12:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kittykat10 · 10/09/2013 12:08

Sleep that what I plan lol

Been awake most of night, and when I get very anxious I'm sick so didn't have a good night.

Snapespeare · 10/09/2013 13:21

Hallo flipper ex now back off north, thank Christ. I have consoled myself that his hair is thinning. Grin he seems OK with the dumping-by-text, as he had kind of viewed it as an on-again-off-again thing...and he didn't try it on with me, which is an improvement to his usual visits. DS1 a bit upset though and off of school today. He'd been good about going in on Friday for first day...and on Monday, but some manky y11 girl bit him yesterday (left bruising and teeth marks) and that combined with his dad waltzing off again has left him a bit low.

I started new job yesterday and I hate it. I just want to cry.

Nameless has a cold.

I'm going to slope off home early, liberate my Wine from my knicker-drawer and watch a nice film tonight.

OhWesternWind · 10/09/2013 13:42

Oh Snape sorry to hear about your ds (and hope the school are taking some action - wtf is going on with biting in Yr 11???) and about the new job. If it's any consolation, I hated mine at first, found it very difficult to settle in after being so institutionalised in my old place, but it just takes time, nothing else, just time. It will come right, lovely.

lurkinglorna · 10/09/2013 14:01

Bant:

My issues with the pulling coach thing aren’t moral or anti men just common sensical. It seems the equivalent of quack diets or £200 cosmetic creams, charging dudes for advice on “getting” an outcome which might happen anyway? Dating is not a scenario in which women are playing a passive role.

“Getting” sex for a guy in the age of the Pill isn’t an achievement or a challenge or a reflection of his overall attractiveness at ALL? There’s tonnes of mediocre guys with high “casual action levels” or loads of very attractive females in their orbit (who don’t take them seriously and won’t call them their boyfriend).

It means or proves nothing (especially if those guys are already somewhere where their economic status is, and is known to be, much higher than the local population).

Some women (including very conventionally desirable types) are actually “on the hunt” for something casual, especially if their life/work/family situation means they aren't open to dating the calibre of guy who is a “world changer”.

I agree a bar situation could be stressful, but it seems impossible that a professional guy who is online dating and also “out there” who isn’t a cave troll to get NO action after a few boozy dates/meets. An ok guy often doesn’t even need to do anything, just not do anything rubbish, women will lead on the sex.

Did anyone see Celebrity Love island? (quite shite) Remember Lady Isabella Hervey?(head turning posh blonde). For a time, she was “with” the chavvy minging bloke, even “talked the talk” and was quite possessive over him?.

So was it down to his wide boy charms or just the situation? Same number of guys and girls, the other guys are paired off with the other girls .....so....... I reckon it was a case of “he’s there and “nice” and there isn’t anyone else left at the moment and I’m lonely”

I have an acquaintance – call him X - who showed me the Facebook of a stunning lass who was part of the same social group, who was really coming onto him one night. He knew she was actually “into” someone else, and it was like “X is “nice” and reliable and will be grateful so I’ll seduce him just to take my mind off the other guy who I actually like”. X had the dignity and self awareness not to want to take on this role, even if it would mean he “got” sex with her!

Or even in LTRs, again, one has women doing the choosing regardless of the man’s actions or intentions? I had rugrats fairly young, glad of it, good timing.

But its not uncommon for childless women to get to the end of their fertility years (35ish) look at the “nice ok” men in their social circle, and go “yeah he’ll do as I REALLY want a baby and marriage”. So you could have guys claiming “I did this and my inner wonderfulness won me the love of X and caught her and got me married” .

When it’s REALLY down to the woman sizing up her options (and biological clock) and actually doing the choosing of the guy and “letting” him catch her (deep down she sees him as the best of a mediocre bunch). I’m not saying this scenario leads to unhappiness, we all have to make compromises somewhere, but correlation isn’t causation.

PS I only charge 1000 euros for saying GYM’S THAT WAY! AND WASH AND DON’T BE A WEIRDO!

PSS Can someone tell me to get back to my coursework and stop procrastinating? I got a month off work and I need to use it wisely Grin