Under huge pressure from MM - please help :(

[shameshame]

Thank you for everyone who has helped on my past threads where I outlined my affair with a MM. Please accept my sincerest apologies to the many DW on here that this thread may cause upset - i am sorry in advance. I honestly have nowhere to turn.

Thanks to the great advice I received on here I managed to go 2 months NC from MM, after a near mental breakdown and moving and jobs and cities far away from family and friends in a bid to restart my life.

MM has recently contacted me saying he can't live without me (and all that jazz). I stupidly met up, he broke down and said he needs me in his life, is willing to give DW full disclosure and start again with me. Seems genuine and I still love MM (STUPID I KNOW).

I'm thrown back into turmoil now - he wants to do it before Wednesday as he is due on a family holiday with his DW and young DC and can't go through the pretence.

I feel so much pressure on my shoulders. I don't want to split up a family (I know I should have thought of that before) but he says the damage is done. Just as I was getting back on track.

Please help if you can find it in yourselves. i know plenty of OW with have said this before but I'm not a bad person and devastated at what i've become.

Thank you BOF although I actually work in the NHS wobbly so no need to worry about me wasting anyone's money with my quackery!

Of course I have empathy for the wife. I have empathy for everyone in this difficult situation. I don't judge people on their behaviours and see things from one narrow world view. It's called unconditional positive regard. It's part of why I'm such a good therapist

I think if most people went to a therapist they would prefer one that wasn't judgemental, and that they felt able to discuss anything with, no?

Sometimes good people do things that aren't morally 'right' by society's standards. Remember though, infidelity is not a crime and is not seen as such a big deal in every society.

And this is not even relevant but I HAVE been the wife in this situation. And I have also been the OW. I have never been the cheating partner but I don't know what's going to happen in the future. And I am able to accept myself and my choices.

I shan't be taking sides in the WW v JCB debate.... but

infidelity is not a crime?!! really?!

It is wrong and may not be punishable by law but in case you forgot - it can be used as a case for a divorce - i.e. wrongs that the law recognises as warranting a legal separation. termination of a legal contract - marriage.

JCB - you scare me. would there not be a case for saying having been the victim of cheating you then went on to re-balance yourself by being the OW. and in doing so built up a whole wall of justifications as to why you were ready to be the OW. you got to experience being the adored one. He coveted you over his wife/partner. That must have felt so good.

And then to go on and counsel others with this mind set. I don't think you're being honest with yourself to think your own experiences make you even handed/un-judgmental.

what may be fair is that here you are only looking at the OP and her emotional needs so cannot go beyond her in your considerations. If the WIFE was on here I assume you would like wise only focus on her. So in that regards I see why you would not dedicate your counselling on another other than the OP.

OK- back to lurking

unconditional positive regard is approval, by another name.

Religious tenets are not my thing, but the Wiccan Crede surely offers a more apt approach: "An it harm none, do what you will"

It is not a crime. Maybe in some places but not the uk. That is a fact not an opinion.

And I see where you are going with your analysis of my behaviour but I don't agree. When my dh cheated it was because we weren't making each other happy, had got together young and grown apart. I know his cheating wasn't ideal or a nice thing to do but I can understand why he did it, it doesn't make him a bad guy, he's not. He has his flaws of course, as do I. And we're good friends now.

I have had a lot of therapy, it's necessary for my work but I would anyway because I value personal growth and self development. I know myself very, very well. So, I'm sorry if I 'scare' you but I'm happy with myself, which is what it all boils down too really isn't it?

It might not be a crime, but if innocent people think they are in a monogamous relationship and end up with a sti then it bloody should be treated as criminal.

Jaceybee, I think you sound very balanced and agree generally with your attitude. I'm not an OW btw.

Sometimes, it pays to think why someone takes their position. This is what i think of posters like WW. Nice, lots of interesting informed opinion but not for everyone.

No-one is an oracle.

And lets not forget the sheer number or infidelities that are out there.

Thank you Dotty. Balanced is what I was going for

I see the OP has disappeared and its now past Weds...

The MM would only be able to get in touch if there was some trail for him to get contact, so the 'new life' wasn't as new as supposed.

OP are you sure you weren't hoping for him to get in touch saying he could not live without you and he had now left his wife and wanted to come and join you? Then when he didn't and you found out he was about to go on holiday he turned it into 'oh but if you give me the green light then I won't go on holiday with them and I'll be with you'.

You are available. Why on earth are you saying that HE is under pressure? If he leaves them then he will be available and can pitch up with you. I don't get your problem tbh.

But

'that he'll have to go through a divorce, put his dc's and dw through hell but wants to take the risk'.

So let him take the risk if he is so happy to do so. But he won't. Even if you say 'yes darling I will tell wifey on the way to the airport that I'm not coming' he still would not tell her the truth.
Probably do what my friend's husband did and say he suddenly has to work....

Don't do it, don't go back to him.

Look what he's done to you. I can imagine what it took for you to re start your life.

How dare he come back with an ultimatum on his terms because he doesn't feel he can go on holiday.

It's not exactly flattering to be second best is it? He is making you 'feel' like you are special, but i can tell you now, he will not commit to you.

OP - just read your post. Someone a couple of posts down said this already - if things were that bad with his DW he would leave her already, and wouldn't need you in place to do so.

Let him leave her, set up on his own, work out what he wants etc, and if in couple of year you are still what he wants, then do it.

To be honest, he sounds very selfish and unable to be on his own. I would go back to NC if I were you!

Let him leave her without you as a safety net.

Also tell her what he said so she has a chance to decide her future without him railroading her. it sounds as if he is determined to fuck up her life so she deserves the right to have some self-determination.

Never questioned your sense of happiness JCB. Just reflected on the debate.

Your husband cheated because you grew apart !!! - Really!!

Nothing to do with wanting to do it? -

What constitutes a reason and when does it become an excuse.

Surely he could have ended it, then had the relationship - within a second of ending it with you.

I guess from here on in - every cheating man now has a justifiable reason- "They grew apart from their DW/DP"

That's ok then... now remind me to start searching for an OW. i've decided we've grown apart!

ofmiceandmen - Sounds like you have all the answers.

Dotty hardly! just like the rest on MN trying to understand why people do these sort of things from my own DM/DF past to my own experiences.

and realising that most cases it just boils down to lust, greed, revenge, ego rushes ..... all aka selfishness.

learning daily

I don't know, I'm sure there were lots of reasons! Some of which you outlined above. But, I have spoken to more cheating partners, OW/OMs and cheated on spouses than you could shake a stick at. And their reasons for doing so are many and varied. So, once again, you cannot generalise about these things, it is very reductive.

Op's long gone.

Thanks again everyone for the advice. I haven't disappeared - just dealing with a lot of stressful and painful emotions - primarily disappointment that I've taken a hundred steps back after making such progress.

I told MM to go on holiday and reevaluate what's at stake if he divorces his wife/breaks up his family. He had gone so I guess I'll never know if he would've gone regardless of what I said. I also told him it has to be his decision and to stop saying its because of me as that is making me feel like shit and really under pressure. Sorry if this sounds classic self indulgent OW.

Just seen this thread.

It sounds like you communicated your willingness to have a relationship with this man if he leaves his wife and children. Is that correct?

In my experience, infidelity never has one sole cause but the single, unifying reason that is common to all who get involved in infidelitous relationships is an absence of effective life-coping mechanisms.

It is too 'neat' an answer to say that infidelity happened solely because a couple grew apart, because that overlooks people's individuality of choices and the other options that were available to deal with that rift. Furthermore, it doesn't follow that the situation in one marriage is the same as another. Not all affairs arise out of relationship discord and the person in the position of the OW is never able to test out if what she is being told is true.

The man in this thread has bad coping mechanisms. Whether that's connected to coping with being a husband and father, or with other pressures in life, you cannot know. You are completely unsighted about this, but not as unsighted as his wife and children.

You do have quite a bit of information to make a decision though. You know that he had an affair rather than finding healthier coping mechanisms. You know that he has been lying to people in his life. You know that he puts his own needs before yours by failing to respect the decision you made when you rebuilt your life. You know that instead of taking the responsibility to resolve matters himself, he put the responsibility on to you for his own outcome. You know that he claimed to be willing to deliver shocking and devastating news to his wife and family as they prepared to go on holiday.

It's always a grave mistake to judge someone purely by their connection and attachment to us. How they treat other people and their qualities as a human being are hugely important. He once had a strong attachment and connection to his wife, children and the family set-up. You have learnt that when he no longer feels connections to people and situations, he can be cruel in his disassociation. There is no evidence to suppose he would be any different with you if and when that connection with you lapses.

Good to hear back from you OP. What's your plan for when he gets back? This drama and pressure would be driving me crazy.

Sorry, I hope I didn't upset you with the long gone post, I genuinely thought you'd left the thread.

Feel free to put MM on hold so you can deal with the stress and get your head clear. It isn't just about him, although he might feel he has the harder decisions to make. If you are contemplating having a relationship with him, it is imperative to make sure that you get your needs met and don't simply go along once he's decided.

Charbon, that is a cracking post.

People don't have affairs because they have drifted apart. People have affairs because they have no respect for their partner and choose to deceive them rather than be honest with them.

All the reasons stated for having an affair are actually reasons to end the relationship. But people don't do that because it takes away their own personal comfort.

It's a choice. Always.

What a crock of shit.

It was so unbearable for him he would tell his wife if you said so and destroy her and their children.

You didn't tell him so suddenly they are bearable.

Tells you everything you need to know. His wife is good enough to stay with rather than make a go of it alone.

She is only not good enough if he can fall straight into your bed.

Are you going to be in contact with him whilst he is away? It will be horrible for his wife and kids if he keeps sneaking away to call you. Please don't allow him to do that to them. Change your number.

Why are we still saying people have (or don't have) affairs because of x? Like Charbon said (and I've said countless times) 'infidelity never has one sole cause'. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

OP, I'm glad you've got a bit of breathing space to make a decision about mm either way. You certainly don't have to work to his timetable.